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#2410849 04/16/15 05:10 AM
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I have difficulties with counting and playing syncopation. When I play a piece very slow it is easy to count and know how long each note should be. How can I learn to play the piece in a correct fast speed? Syncopation is another difficult area. How can I learn to play syncopation? I do take piano lessons but I still don't really manage this. Do I need certain practices (on and off the piano) or is it something else?

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Re: piano
iamanders #2410850 04/16/15 05:26 AM
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Hi iamanders, welcome to the forums!

In order to be able to answer your questions it's important to know what your experience is. One answer could be: a lot of practice and patience.

When you talk about speeding up. I don't see much use in a metronome when you can do with counting, however, a metronome can be very helpful in speeding up, beat by beat.. So if you are able to play a piece at 60 bpm, you can up it to 61 and so on till your reach your target speed. Slow practice comes before that. You should really know a piece very well before you add speed.

About syncopation, do you mean: holding the keys, or do you mean syncopated pedalling or? the first thing is fairly easy, just don't release the keys. The second thing takes quite some practice and I am sure your teacher is able to tell you how.

Re: piano
iamanders #2410864 04/16/15 07:33 AM
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For me syncopation and any type of timing challenges are all about internalizing the rhythms.
Clapping, tapping or playing the rhythm with one or two fingers.
Slow prctice gradually speeding up.
Words thatcapture the rhythm speed up better than strict counting. Hot cup of tea is good for 2 vs 3 rhythms for example. Simple syllables instead of counting is also easier to speed up.
Using a reference of the correct rhythm supports listening, internalizing and prActicing. Put it into a notation program like muse score or finale. Use a drum machine. You can change the tempo to let you speed up the practice with both of these.

With most challenges at the piano it takes several different approaches to solve the problems.


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Re: piano
iamanders #2410877 04/16/15 08:18 AM
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You might do well posting on the adult beginners forum.


Currently working towards "Twinkle twinkle little star"
Re: piano
PhilipInChina #2410899 04/16/15 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by PhilipInChina
You might do well posting on the adult beginners forum.

Isn't it there? wink

Re: piano
WimPiano #2410946 04/16/15 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by wimpiano
Hi iamanders, welcome to the forums!

In order to be able to answer your questions it's important to know what your experience is. One answer could be: a lot of practice and patience.

When you talk about speeding up. I don't see much use in a metronome when you can do with counting, however, a metronome can be very helpful in speeding up, beat by beat.. So if you are able to play a piece at 60 bpm, you can up it to 61 and so on till your reach your target speed. Slow practice comes before that. You should really know a piece very well before you add speed.

About syncopation, do you mean: holding the keys, or do you mean syncopated pedalling or? the first thing is fairly easy, just don't release the keys. The second thing takes quite some practice and I am sure your teacher is able to tell you how.

I was reffering to syncopated rhythm.
The problem I guess is that I can read partitura/sheet music and listen to music with certain rhythms but not really playing them that good. Counting is kinda difficult. How can I learn to feel the counting/rhythm inside myself ('cause I don't have time to count when actually playing)?

Someone mentioned syllables rather than counting. Is that way easier?
But I guess you can't say those syllables when playing.
Do we apply the same technique to different genres or maybe not?
I have heard that you can only play what you hear inside.
Glenn Gould could hear his music in his intererior world (and he did some strange singing):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qB76jxBq_gQ

Re: piano
iamanders #2410949 04/16/15 02:44 PM
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You can try to start tapping rhythms. I do it using a book: Pozzoli: Guida Teorico Practica. (A part of my lessons with the teacher, it helps to feel the rhythm inside).

Re: piano
iamanders #2410950 04/16/15 02:47 PM
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Search on kodaly for one example of how to use syllables


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Re: piano
iamanders #2410957 04/16/15 03:28 PM
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There should be no reason for you to search for ways to improve as a piano player other than discussing a solution with your teacher.

It is unlikely that some comment you read here is going to be better than what your teacher suggests.

Go back and ask your teacher that same question.

Good Luck


Don

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Re: piano
iamanders #2410977 04/16/15 05:00 PM
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Try and find a local drum circle. If you want to feel rhythm "in your body", that's a good place to start.

Drumming really simplifies the rhythm-learning process. You have a few sounds to master, but no melodies, key signatures, and so on. And drum circles are run without any printed music -- it's "hear it, and play it".

. Charles

PS -- "Ask your teacher!" is another perfectly good answer to the question.


. Charles
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Re: piano
dmd #2410996 04/16/15 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by dmd
There should be no reason for you to search for ways to improve as a piano player other than discussing a solution with your teacher.

It is unlikely that some comment you read here is going to be better than what your teacher suggests.

Go back and ask your teacher that same question.

Good Luck


OK mods, you can shut it down.


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Re: piano
iamanders #2411119 04/17/15 03:46 AM
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@jimb100, shutting a thread down because of one post?
Dmd's post sounds a bit harsh but there's some truth in it.

Re: piano
iamanders #2411522 04/18/15 10:48 AM
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If my post were dumb/strange/stupid then what is this forum for?

Re: piano
iamanders #2411527 04/18/15 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by iamanders
If my post were dumb/strange/stupid then what is this forum for?

Your post is none of those things, and it's actually an interesting question.

You might consider a sub-dividing electronic metronome -- one that can divide each beat into fractions -- and practicing the piece at a very slow tempo, say 25% of normal or less. Start at a speed that's so slow that you can't possibly play it wrong. The metronome off-beats will guide the syncopation, and you will gradually get the feel of it. As you gain familiarity, slowly increase the tempo until you can play the piece at speed.


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Re: piano
iamanders #2411707 04/19/15 07:52 AM
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Those metronomes are also available as apps.

Re: piano
WimPiano #2411892 04/19/15 09:23 PM
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Originally Posted by wimpiano
@jimb100, shutting a thread down because of one post?
Dmd's post sounds a bit harsh but there's some truth in it.

I think the "shut it down" post was a reference to the fact that no further discussion is necessary if the OP is indeed just going to ask his teacher.

Of course, that's not really a reason to close the thread, but that's another question.


Regards,

Polyphonist
Re: piano
iamanders #2411957 04/20/15 03:08 AM
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Ah.. didn't look at it that way. Still an interesting thread..

Re: piano
iamanders #2412001 04/20/15 06:42 AM
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Originally Posted by iamanders
If my post were dumb/strange/stupid then what is this forum for?
it's a good question plus it is understandable that you have a problem with syncopation.

There are different types of syncopation but usually, accent is shifted or notes are played between natural beats. Let's say if you have in a bar:
quaver, crochet, crochet, crochet, quaver
Then, crochets are played 1/2 time sooner than a regular beat and an accent, at least for me, is switched to the second note (crochet) instead of the first note.

Or:
quaver, crochet, quaver, quaver, quaver, crochet
The accent is shifted to the second note (crochet).


If you have problem to understand it, one of ways is to divide notes into set of the shortest notes (here quavers) and try to knock the rhythm. Then try to knock all quavers which are not there quieter and eventually remove them.


Zbigniew

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