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Still unsure on the used digital pianos...
#2409834 04/13/15 01:35 PM
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Since I came to a conclusion that you can kinda bypass the sound of the piano itself by using a PC application and good external pair of speakers (with a nice amplifier added as well), I think what I should go for is the keyboard itself? I mean - the quality and its ability to replicate the real acoustic piano's key travel and such?

Because I'm still pondering on the Yamaha CLP-230 (used) for 740$ as opposed to Casio PX-150 entry level for 600$ (just the piano - no casing, no pedals).

The CLP-230 uses a Graded Hammer 3 keyboard, which probably blows the entry level Casio out of the water totally, and I don't really care for the sound quality either way since it's going to get bypassed by an application and speakers.

So I guess it makes more sense to buy it?

Sorry to bother you guys yet again with this, but it's quite a bit of buck and I want to spend it wisely.

Last edited by Kaiketsu; 04/13/15 01:35 PM.
Re: Still unsure on the used digital pianos...
Kaiketsu #2409896 04/13/15 04:56 PM
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The only opinion that ultimately counts is your own opinion of the two pianos.

With that said I consider almost all used digitals overpriced. Most sellers consider them to keep value longer, but I consider it nore like purchasing a used computer that will never run the latest os.

The casios have a very good action. When I bought my px310 I had to comparer it to a $2000 yamaha tofind one I liked as well. Ymmv. Try both and make your own decision


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Re: Still unsure on the used digital pianos...
Kaiketsu #2409971 04/13/15 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Kaiketsu
The CLP-230 uses a Graded Hammer 3 keyboard, which probably blows the entry level Casio out of the water totally...


Not necessarily. The Casio action is technically very impressive.
I would recommend playing both instruments, rather than assuming that one is better than the other.

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James
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Re: Still unsure on the used digital pianos...
Kaiketsu #2410093 04/14/15 02:31 AM
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but isn't GH3 the highest yamaha model and thus expected to perform as close to accoustic piano as possible? smile

Re: Still unsure on the used digital pianos...
Kaiketsu #2410099 04/14/15 02:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Kaiketsu
but isn't GH3 the highest yamaha model and thus expected to perform as close to accoustic piano as possible? smile

Getting a sense of deja vu, here - haven't we already thrashed this out?

The conclusion that I came to at the time, was you didn't like the consensus and really wanted to get the aging Yamaha.

Do you think a second bite at the cherry will illicit a different response?

People gave their opinion before, which you are welcome to either listen to or ignore, but at the time I'd called it on you really wanted somebody to go with your preference and buy the Yamaha - that most wouldn't have, probably isn't likely to change.

So your options are, try them both, see which you prefer, or go with your instinct, and live with it. What you seem to be looking for, though, is for people to side with your preference and make you feel good about that. Thing is, whether they do, or don't by asking them again, weight of opinion from a forum won't keep you warm at night - it'll be of little comfort, I suspect, were you to simply go along with consensus, and live to have regrets. But then the flipside applies - if there is some degree of consensus, consider why, and consider what it is you're trying to solicit.

I know what I'd do in your circumstance - but then I'm not sure that really helps, and doesn't appear to be what you're looking for. But just a tip - no good phrasing the question again, hoping for some overwhelming support for your preference.

There's only so many times you can ask the same question, largely ignore the consensus, and keep on asking - but that's your prerogative - if you're so determined to get the Yamaha, though - then follow your choice, I doubt whether keep asking the same question will produce entirely different opinions.

As somebody else also said - I've also found used digital pianos to be way overpriced, by and large. Whether they sell at that price, or not, is all down to the gullibility of the market, and perhaps whether they are truly worth that to somebody.

Re: Still unsure on the used digital pianos...
Kaiketsu #2410104 04/14/15 03:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Kaiketsu
but isn't GH3 the highest yamaha model and thus expected to perform as close to accoustic piano as possible? smile

Pretty sure the Casio action is the highest Casio model and thus expected to perform as close to acoustic piano as possible . OK maybe because that's the only action they sell in current range. Action feel and preference is subjective and personal so play both then decide.

Re: Still unsure on the used digital pianos...
Lester Burnham #2410143 04/14/15 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Lester Burnham
The conclusion that I came to at the time, was you didn't like the consensus and really wanted to get the aging Yamaha.

Do you think a second bite at the cherry will illicit a different response?


If I wanted the aging yamaha, I'd just buy it outright. The only reason I'm making such threads is the uncertainty.

And yes, on a busy forums, people rarely read more than just a few of the top threads, so after a while, starting fresh may give me some more/different insight.

I read everything carefully and definitively don't look for a "buy Yamaha, yes" response. And it's literally 2 of my monthly salaries at stake, so I really don't want to screw this one up, as I will have quite a nasty after-taste.

I'm still learning, so the best key action (most realistic) is in my best interest. I can go and play both, but being inexperienced, I cannot judge anything properly just by a few mins in the shop.

What I hope for here is that there is someone experienced here who played both and can either debunk, or affirm that GH3 is better at imitiating real piano than Casio's entry model. if it's more or less same thing, I'm getting the Casio. If GH3 is noticeably better, Yamaha it is.

Last edited by Kaiketsu; 04/14/15 07:46 AM.
Re: Still unsure on the used digital pianos...
Kaiketsu #2410145 04/14/15 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Kaiketsu
Originally Posted by Lester Burnham
The conclusion that I came to at the time, was you didn't like the consensus and really wanted to get the aging Yamaha.

Do you think a second bite at the cherry will illicit a different response?


If I wanted the aging yamaha, I'd just buy it outright. The only reason I'm making such threads is the uncertainty.

And yes, on a busy forums, people rarely read more than just a few of the top threads, so after a while, starting fresh may give me some more/different insight.

I read everything carefully and definitively don't look for a "buy Yamaha, yes" response. And it's literally 2 of my monthly salaries at stake, so I really don't want to screw this one up, as I will have quite a nasty after-taste.

I'm still learning, so the best key action (most realistic) is in my best interest. I can go and play both, but being inexperienced, I cannot judge anything properly just by a few mins in the shop.

What I hope for here is that there is someone experienced here who played both and can either debunk, or affirm that GH3 is better at imitiating real piano than Casio's entry model.

The problem being, that's there's no horrible, horrendous decisions, here - just shades of grey depending on peoples' personal preferences, and attributes they hold stock in.

The action in the Casio - whilst in their entry level, is common across their Privia and Celviano range - and is decent. Of course there are better - but also, there's some degree of subjectivity to perceptions of better.

As you're a beginner, there's nothing about the Casio action that's going to be limiting for quite some years. As to the sound - well there's options, and other considerations - polyphony, warranty - plus how much do you know about the condition of the Yamaha, and how much life left does it have?

Thing is - you're essentially asking the same thing again - there's only really so many times that can be done, without it being a hugely redundant question.

There's no black and white there, just shades of grey. I know what I'd do - but once again, that hasn't nor would seem to be of any help to you. If consensus wasn't convincing for you last time, what makes you think it will be any more so this time?

Re: Still unsure on the used digital pianos...
Kaiketsu #2410155 04/14/15 08:11 AM
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I don't know the CLP-230, but having played a CLP-330, I'd take it over the only Casio I tried (PX-5S) (for home use, gigging is something else :-) )

Re: Still unsure on the used digital pianos...
Kaiketsu #2410367 04/14/15 08:14 PM
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Kaiketsu (is your name an accurate description, by the way?),

In my opinion, the second hand CLP-230 at $740 represents more piano for your money than a new PX-150 at $600. That being said, the Yamaha utilises older technology, with dated 2005 sound specifications, so I'd expect the Casio to sound better through headphones.

As Lester said, there's no bad decision here - either instrument will serve you well. You just need to play them both (even if you're a beginner), and decide which features are important to you.

Best of luck.

Cheers,
James
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Re: Still unsure on the used digital pianos...
Kaiketsu #2410443 04/15/15 02:14 AM
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That's the kind of opinion I was looking for. thank you very much:) and I hope my name is an accurate description, haha ^^ not when it comes to piano skills, however.. yet smile

Re: Still unsure on the used digital pianos...
Kaiketsu #2410548 04/15/15 10:16 AM
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If in the US you can get a px150 for 399usd. Then save up for something dramatically nicer. Used pianos are definitely overpriced. Of course I'm not a yamaha fan and IMHO the GH3 is theie lowest end action that is tolerable.

Buy something to get you started and that's lightweight in case you want to haul it around somewhere and then start saving up for a kawai ca series or one of the nicer rolands if they float your boat, or an acoustic even.

Re: Still unsure on the used digital pianos...
Kaiketsu #2410578 04/15/15 11:11 AM
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the PX-150 costs 600 dollars here. For the piano only - without the stand and pedals (there is a simple binary sustain pedal included, though). You have to add 100$ for the stand, and 100$ for pedals, which brings the final cost to 800$.

As for Yamaha, I have managed to convince the seller to lower the price, thus the CLP-230 is available to me for 690$. with the stand and pedals of course.

(Rule of a thumb is to take US prices and add anywhere between 40 and 60% to their price in my country.)



Last edited by Kaiketsu; 04/15/15 11:15 AM.
Re: Still unsure on the used digital pianos...
Kaiketsu #2410594 04/15/15 11:59 AM
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The CLP-230 sounds fine to me, at least in this video (in German, though the sounds speak for themselves.) There were some bad sounding examples on YouTube from users, but since this is from a reseller, I'm inclined to conclude it captures the CLP-230's sound quite accurately.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjlDXwuKEvQ

I'd say go for it, it has the GH3 action, the best from Yamaha. The only question is how much wear and tear the thing has suffered, then on the other hand it's a Yamaha!


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Re: Still unsure on the used digital pianos...
Kaiketsu #2410689 04/15/15 04:40 PM
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Kaiketsu: I'll add one thing to this discussion.

I own a CLP240, purchased new in Florida in 2008. It's similar to the CLP230 you're considering. I don't use it heavily. But ...

I had an in-warranty problem with one key. It played loud only. Forte, but no piano. No prior warning of the failure. A Yamaha tech fixed it under warranty.

I had an out-of-warranty problem with on key. Dead, no sound. No prior warning of the failure. The same tech fixed it by cleaning underneath the rubber contact pads. That cost $155.

After moving to North Carolina, I had another failure without warning. A different tech replaced a failed contact pad. He also lubed all of the keys. That cost $175. But because the contact pad was reclaimed from another piano, it failed after six months.

So I decided to take things into my own hands and replace four sets of octave-grouped contacts. Around $70 from Yamaha in California. The work is a bit tedious, but at least I have new pads, not used.

Conclusion: A used piano can have lots of issues. I've put $400 into repair work on my piano. That's something to consider, since your CLP230 is as old or older than my CLP240.

Re: Still unsure on the used digital pianos...
Kaiketsu #2410698 04/15/15 05:09 PM
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Interesting MacMacMac, shows that buying old and used is always a risk, besides your instrument failed while still in warranty.

One thing to add, I was wondering if the CLP-230 has three sensors, it does according to Kawai James. That means both of the DPs being pitted against each other have the third sensor.

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubb...aha%20CLP-230%20or%20Kawai%20CN-33?.html


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Re: Still unsure on the used digital pianos...
Kaiketsu #2412096 04/20/15 12:28 PM
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I did check the CLP-230 in person and it was in good shape, but it sounded pretty... synthetic. Can't put my finger on it, the last three keys sounded weird too. Like hitting an empty tin can with a finger. Is that normal? Decided not to buy it, at least for a time.

I think I'll go for the Casio after all.


Last edited by Kaiketsu; 04/20/15 12:29 PM.

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