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Re: DPs with soft bottoming out...
Ben Boule #2408921 04/10/15 03:15 PM
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I've never seen a PX5S. It might be fun to play around with that stuff but I think I want speakers. The PX-350 speakers didn't sound good in the big music store but they might be fine in my house.

I took my Sony MDR-7506s.. the PX-350 sounded good through those although not very loud even at max volume.


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Re: DPs with soft bottoming out...
Ben Boule #2408925 04/10/15 03:28 PM
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I don't agree entirely with the conclusions being drawn here. There just isn't enough information. You just can't state that all DP (or AP) actions are comfortable and safe to play on for all people. To agree with that notion as truth assumes that people who post here add up to the majority of people that play (they don't). It assumes that people who do play and experience discomfort are comfortable with sharing their ordeals in a public forum (they aren't). It assumes that people who do play and have had pain sometime afterward have figured out there is a correlation.

It isn't just todays poster, this question comes up often enough on the forum. I myself don't play on some keyboards any longer because I've found a direct correlation. And I've been on APs and DPs with many teachers since 1976. It would be more reasonable to conclude work related repetitive stress injuries are real. Musicians aren't immune, in fact it's common, but there are reasons they don't enjoy to discuss it. The motions we make on the tools we use are directly involved. Some tools are built better and more comfortable to use than others - be it a keyboard action or a hammer, a jack hammer or a computer keyboard. Once an issue crops up you have to address it on all fronts. Good technique, warm up and cool down routines, healthy lifestyle, and, yes, being picky about your tool.

Re: DPs with soft bottoming out...
Ben Boule #2408926 04/10/15 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Ben Boule
I've never seen a PX5S. It might be fun to play around with that stuff but I think I want speakers. The PX-350 speakers didn't sound good in the big music store but they might be fine in my house.

I took my Sony MDR-7506s.. the PX-350 sounded good through those although not very loud even at max volume.



The PX5S is just the big brother to the PX350. It has some custom Piano Patches- third party, that maximize the Privia sound.

Re: DPs with soft bottoming out...
jimb100 #2408935 04/10/15 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by jimb100
How much "less injurious" can they make it?

Good question. Perhaps they could start with at least admitting that it's a possible issue for some, listing danger signs and the like. That would be the responsible thing to do. Often by the time real pain starts one is looking at an extended recovery period.

Originally Posted by jimb100
While I understand that as an acoustic piano purist your job is to search out any potential negative associated with digital piano and blow it out of proportion, in this case you're barking up the wrong tree.

I'll cop to being a crank when DPs can't cash the checks their ad departments have written, but beyond that I have no clue what you're talking about.

Re: DPs with soft bottoming out...
dewster #2408989 04/10/15 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by dewster
Originally Posted by jimb100
How much "less injurious" can they make it?

Good question. Perhaps they could start with at least admitting that it's a possible issue for some, listing danger signs and the like. That would be the responsible thing to do. Often by the time real pain starts one is looking at an extended recovery period.
Are you serious? There are many people who buy this DP and don't have any problems with it. Not every instrument is right for every person - AP or DP. That's what this thread amounts to.



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Re: DPs with soft bottoming out...
Morodiene #2409004 04/10/15 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Morodiene
Originally Posted by dewster
Originally Posted by jimb100
How much "less injurious" can they make it?

Good question. Perhaps they could start with at least admitting that it's a possible issue for some, listing danger signs and the like. That would be the responsible thing to do. Often by the time real pain starts one is looking at an extended recovery period.
Are you serious? There are many people who buy this DP and don't have any problems with it. Not every instrument is right for every person - AP or DP. That's what this thread amounts to.


I don't own a Steinway - can't afford even a 150-year-old model with all strings broken - but surely they have a disclaimer that every purchaser must sign?

Along the lines of: "You play this great instrument at your own risk - remember, many virtuoso pianists have crippled their hands playing it. You could be next. We take no responsibility whatsoever. Buy at your own risk."

If all DP manufacturers do the same, then (hopefully) they will be safe from the clutches of the lawsuit lawyers.....
Or maybe not.


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
Re: DPs with soft bottoming out...
dewster #2409005 04/10/15 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by dewster
Originally Posted by jimb100
How much "less injurious" can they make it?

Good question. Perhaps they could start with at least admitting that it's a possible issue for some, listing danger signs and the like. That would be the responsible thing to do. Often by the time real pain starts one is looking at an extended recovery period.

Originally Posted by jimb100
While I understand that as an acoustic piano purist your job is to search out any potential negative associated with digital piano and blow it out of proportion, in this case you're barking up the wrong tree.

I'll cop to being a crank when DPs can't cash the checks their ad departments have written, but beyond that I have no clue what you're talking about.


Meat, eggs, butter, nut, ice cream, fish, dogs, cats, bicycles, cars, pianos, guitars, clothing, etc.

The point is that someone will have a negative experience with anything.

Do you want 'class action' suits against everyone or should everything come with a warning label?

If everything comes with a warning label do they retain any meaning?

Do you want the same labels on acoustic pianos?


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Re: DPs with soft bottoming out...
Ben Boule #2409062 04/11/15 01:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Ben Boule
All this defensive talk...

It is still possible there is just something wrong with my CN24. Kawai apparently thinks it is normal for it to feel harder on your hands than an acoustic. (That is basically what I was told by support when they told me to go try another CN-class DP, I have, and I know they feel like this..)



Sorry, i'm personally not wanting to be defensive. I recognize you definitely are having a problem, definitely with kawai and not other brands, and it could even be due to a defective product, no doubt or no defense on this issue from my side.

My consideration was just agains the "class action" roar.

By the way, having a user particularly sensitive to subtle variations in different actions is really interesting, and i'm convinced can teach something more detailed on them, to a lot of people who are not noticing these variations at first sight.

Please go on and let know about your findings, i myself am still in the shopping phase, and interested in learning, be it a matter of a defective piece, or the effect of a design choice.

Ciao


Kawai Ca63 - yamaha motif07 - Korg01fd
Re: DPs with soft bottoming out...
ElmerJFudd #2409071 04/11/15 03:02 AM
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Originally Posted by ElmerJFudd
I don't agree entirely with the conclusions being drawn here. There just isn't enough information. You just can't state that all DP (or AP) actions are comfortable and safe to play on for all people. To agree with that notion as truth assumes that people who post here add up to the majority of people that play (they don't). It assumes that people who do play and experience discomfort are comfortable with sharing their ordeals in a public forum (they aren't). It assumes that people who do play and have had pain sometime afterward have figured out there is a correlation.

It isn't just todays poster, this question comes up often enough on the forum. I myself don't play on some keyboards any longer because I've found a direct correlation. And I've been on APs and DPs with many teachers since 1976. It would be more reasonable to conclude work related repetitive stress injuries are real. Musicians aren't immune, in fact it's common, but there are reasons they don't enjoy to discuss it. The motions we make on the tools we use are directly involved. Some tools are built better and more comfortable to use than others - be it a keyboard action or a hammer, a jack hammer or a computer keyboard. Once an issue crops up you have to address it on all fronts. Good technique, warm up and cool down routines, healthy lifestyle, and, yes, being picky about your tool.


I used to get on this bike forum. Then somebody in the over 65 section mentioned he had a quadruple bypass op to look forward to . . . loads of messages of sympathy and condolences as you might expect.

Biggest surprise was the number of others in the same position! I questioned this in words to the effect of "Hang on! Biking`s supposed to make your heart healthy . . . ."

It was removed as being inappropriate.

The same thing applies to Prostate Cancer apparently. Mainly fanatical, long distance performance based riders are at risk. . .but I guess they`d rather pop their clogs half way up a mountain road than drag things out for years!



"I am not a man. I am a free number"

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Re: DPs with soft bottoming out...
Ben Boule #2409127 04/11/15 09:39 AM
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Indeed. Life isn't all roses and lollipops. And just because we can build it doesn't mean we don't find out 50 years later it isn't any good for us. Who wants to start up THAT list?. Haha. It's going to be a very long list!

I'll throw out two examples that come to mind quickly.

The Fairlight CMI with touch screen and stylus. What a wonderful revolutionary musical device they built. But hours of use by musicians rendered "gorilla arm". Inflammation and pain would set in and the arm would become unusable until it calmed down. It's any wonder we're back at touch screens again.

Cell phone texting. How taboo is it to discuss early onset of arthritis in teen's thumb joints?. The AMA might bring it up, but not very loudly, and it's never mentioned as a selling point in cell phone commercials. LOL

Regarding cyclists, I also understand many of them lose sensation in their 4th and 5th fingers due to prolonged grip of handle bars. Might be worth an entrepreneur's time to design a variation on bicycle handle bar.

But we make choices and deal with consequences. It's completely reasonable to believe that some action designs are better than others and speak better musically for some people as well as reduce risk for joint and tendon problems with excessive use (the type of use necessary to become good at playing).

Anyway, I don't see a difference here... It's ok to discuss these things because they are reality. Shushing people up or telling them they are crazy because the topic is unpleasant or could be a factor in sales isn't appropriate. Actually it would be opportunity for sales if particular actions proved to be best for this. No different than touting the GF or Avant Grand actions as being more AP like. Maybe a DP action could actually be "better" than an AP action with a little engineering focus.

Re: DPs with soft bottoming out...
ElmerJFudd #2409140 04/11/15 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by ElmerJFudd
It's ok to discuss these things because they are reality. Shushing people up or telling them they are crazy because the topic is unpleasant or could be a factor in sales isn't appropriate.

Some seem committed to ignoring plain facts, and to disparaging others for noticing. I think a lot of it is that we've been very carefully taught to loathe *all* legal recourse. That and a healthy dose of decline/death denial go a long way towards shutting down otherwise reasonable discussions.

For physical reasons APs pretty much have to be the way they are. The sky's the limit for DPs, so what's wrong with the goal of designing them to be less injurious?

Re: DPs with soft bottoming out...
dewster #2409155 04/11/15 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by dewster
Originally Posted by ElmerJFudd
It's ok to discuss these things because they are reality. Shushing people up or telling them they are crazy because the topic is unpleasant or could be a factor in sales isn't appropriate.

Some seem committed to ignoring plain facts, and to disparaging others for noticing. I think a lot of it is that we've been very carefully taught to loathe *all* legal recourse. That and a healthy dose of decline/death denial go a long way towards shutting down otherwise reasonable discussions.

For physical reasons APs pretty much have to be the way they are. The sky's the limit for DPs, so what's wrong with the goal of designing them to be less injurious?


Its quite simple. Over many years and thousands of users, dps have proven to be safe and not cause injury to the vast majority when used as intended.

To imply otherwise is ridiculous.

Lets look at your other half truth. "For physical reasons APs pretty much have to be the way they are."

Sez who, besides you? Who can say what a massive engineering effort might make APs safe? They can certainly be made lighter. How many lives could be saved by a lighter AP? We've all seen acoustic pianos fall from second story windows, dropped by careless movers, to land on some hapless passerby. The latest, in the final episode 2 1/2 Men.

So what's the real danger here, is it dps or acoustic pianos? Mild tendonitis or death from above? Where is the real danger? You decide.


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Re: DPs with soft bottoming out...
dewster #2409160 04/11/15 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by dewster

Some seem committed to ignoring plain facts, and to disparaging others for noticing. I think a lot of it is that we've been very carefully taught to loathe *all* legal recourse. That and a healthy dose of decline/death denial go a long way towards shutting down otherwise reasonable discussions.

For physical reasons APs pretty much have to be the way they are.

No, that's wrong.

This is a much safer AP:
http://youtu.be/Ep5fNEeoh74

Very light action, no stretching to reach 10th's or even 12th's (a common cause of AP injury - over-stretching in pianists with small hands), no need to thump to get crashing chords & octaves (another cause of injury).

And if it falls on your head, you'll just get a small bruise. Piano movers won't risk prolapsed discs trying to move it.

Even the next step up - the fortepianos of Mozart's time - are safer. They have narrower keys (again less stretching) and lighter action. And they don't tolerate thumping.


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
Re: DPs with soft bottoming out...
Ben Boule #2409164 04/11/15 11:32 AM
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"It needed also a sort of athleticism of mind, an ability at one moment to make the most delicate use of logic and at the next to be unconscious of the crudest logical errors. Stupidity was as necessary as intelligence, and as difficult to attain." - George Orwell, 1984

Re: DPs with soft bottoming out...
Ben Boule #2409242 04/11/15 02:33 PM
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Its quite simple. Over many years and thousands of users, dps have proven to be safe and not cause injury to the vast majority when used as intended.

To imply otherwise is ridiculous.


Dubious statement. I have no knowledge of any study being done specific to digital piano actions - it would be a difficult one indeed due to the wide variety of mechanisms used by many different manufacturers and models. There are however a growing number of studies that have been done on musicians' playing-related musculoskeletal injuries of which pianists are a major part and you would be shocked to realize how common it is. When interviewing professionals (who put in serious hours at the bench) do numbers like 49%, 64% and in some scenarios as much as 80% surprise us? Perhaps they do. But they shouldn't.

Anyway, point being. From my perspective, and YMMV, this isn't a digital vs. acoustic argument. This is a piano action argument (and yes, of course as already has been stated - technique, health, down-time, etc.). Why are some of us unwilling to seriously consider that not all actions are of the same calibre and that some may very well be more conducive to injury than others? The digital piano market sure believes that we are willing to pay more for designs that are more "acoustic-like" (longer, wooden keys with a different pivot point than compact designs, adding escapement, and let off, etc.). Ultimately should the goal of the engineers be to design more acoustic-like actions for DPs or should their focus be on reducing/dispersing impact energy? From that point of view, maybe they could build an action that is BETTER than an acoustic action.

Last edited by ElmerJFudd; 04/11/15 02:36 PM.
Re: DPs with soft bottoming out...
ElmerJFudd #2409255 04/11/15 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by ElmerJFudd
Quote
Its quite simple. Over many years and thousands of users, dps have proven to be safe and not cause injury to the vast majority when used as intended.

To imply otherwise is ridiculous.


Dubious statement. I have no knowledge of any study being done specific to digital piano actions - it would be a difficult one indeed due to the wide variety of mechanisms used by many different manufacturers and models. There are however a growing number of studies that have been done on musicians' playing-related musculoskeletal injuries of which pianists are a major part and you would be shocked to realize how common it is. When interviewing professionals (who put in serious hours at the bench) do numbers like 49%, 64% and in some scenarios as much as 80% surprise us? Perhaps they do. But they shouldn't.

Anyway, point being. From my perspective, and YMMV, this isn't a digital vs. acoustic argument. This is a piano action argument (and yes, of course as already has been stated - technique, health, down-time, etc.). Why are some of us unwilling to seriously consider that not all actions are of the same calibre and that some may very well be more conducive to injury than others? The digital piano market sure believes that we are willing to pay more for designs that are more "acoustic-like" (longer, wooden keys with a different pivot point than compact designs, adding escapement, and let off, etc.). Ultimately should the goal of the engineers be to design more acoustic-like actions for DPs or should their focus be on reducing/dispersing impact energy? From that point of view, maybe they could build an action that is BETTER than an acoustic action.


The fact that there are not multiple studies of dps causing injury is, in itself, a proof. In our litigious society there would have been numerous studies and class action suits if dp actions were dangerous, which I find an absurd statement.

To state that professional players suffer injury is not surprising and I don't think in any way only related to the piano. The piano is what it is. If you want to play on it hour after hour you will likely injure yourself as you would using any other device known to man. Try swinging a baseball bat 6 hours a day, hitting a golf ball 6 hours a day every day. Playing guitar, swimming, the list could go on forever. Also, the body absorbs impact better when younger but there is a cumulative effect with everything. Some pain is just a factor of growing older. Trying to legislate away the cumulative effects of repetitive motion is stupid. Its up to the individual to determine what their body can withstand.

I will agree that slavishly mimicking the action of an acoustic piano makes no sense. Except that they don't seem to have found an improvement that is acceptable to the wide range of players that the current layout provides.

Who will push for innovation? Certainly no one associated with classical music as any change would affect the relationship between the instrument, the player and the sound. Those who create modern music have made some changes what with stage pianos, software pianos, etc. but the basic keyboard remains as it is most likely a design that just works.


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Re: DPs with soft bottoming out...
dewster #2409258 04/11/15 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by dewster
"It needed also a sort of athleticism of mind, an ability at one moment to make the most delicate use of logic and at the next to be unconscious of the crudest logical errors. Stupidity was as necessary as intelligence, and as difficult to attain." - George Orwell, 1984


Interesting quote!

The athleticism of some minds reminds me of sports like curling or Scottish log throwing. Or perhaps as children measure how far they spit a watermelon seed.

While most sports can be entertaining, those who employ mental gymnastics to circumvent logic are simply tedious.


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Re: DPs with soft bottoming out...
Ben Boule #2409328 04/11/15 08:17 PM
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The fact that there are not multiple studies of dps causing injury is, in itself, a proof. In our litigious society there would have been numerous studies and class action suits if dp actions were dangerous, which I find an absurd statement.


Jim, that's speculative reasoning. I'll play devil's advocate here and speculate as well, but I'm not declaring it as fact...

Perhaps its not worth filing a suit you can't win because such a study would be very difficult to do. You need to prove causal relationship. Also, the digital piano playing % of our society is not very large (even if you include AP players as well, it's pretty small). And the number of them that put in the kind of hours that add up to injury is even smaller.

Here's some factual stuff...
Carpal tunnel, tendonitis and RSIs in general account for three fifths of all occupational injuries. Once the cat was out of the bag about computer keyboard and mouse use injured workers, they started going after their employers. But those pockets are shallow, and since no one wants the stigma of suing their boss, workers started going after computer keyboard manufacturers (beginning with Compaq back in the day). Again, here it is difficult to prove causal relationship between RSIs and computer use (although most people today accept the obvious to be true) what Compaq and the rest failed to do is warn workers that it is possible to develop an RSI on their equipment and had they warned them, the workers could have altered their behavior. Point being, the chance of successfully suing a keyboard manufacturer for RSI is low. And if the industry saw a massive class action suit coming, they'd start slapping "may cause RSI" stickers on their products.

Quote
To state that professional players suffer injury is not surprising and I don't think in any way only related to the piano. The piano is what it is. If you want to play on it hour after hour you will likely injure yourself as you would using any other device known to man. Try swinging a baseball bat 6 hours a day, hitting a golf ball 6 hours a day every day. Playing guitar, swimming, the list could go on forever. Also, the body absorbs impact better when younger but there is a cumulative effect with everything. Some pain is just a factor of growing older. Trying to legislate away the cumulative effects of repetitive motion is stupid. Its up to the individual to determine what their body can withstand.


Agreed, and very true. Life is about choices. And that is not unique to musical instrument study and mastery. For example, the issue of cyclists at risk of, "Prostate Cancer apparently. Mainly fanatical, long distance performance based riders are at risk. . .but I guess they`d rather pop their clogs half way up a mountain road than drag things out for years!" We have a very over-litigious society. You really can't make a life choice and then sue over it.

However, if you knew for fact that a particular design of keyboard action was just generally bad for anyone that played it, wouldn't you want to know which one(s) to avoid? So, in my mind it is OK for the original poster to share his experience with the instrument he is playing on. For others who are sensitive, perhaps that action is not a great choice for them.

Quote
I will agree that slavishly mimicking the action of an acoustic piano makes no sense. Except that they don't seem to have found an improvement that is acceptable to the wide range of players that the current layout provides.


I guess it's generally accepted that the AP action is the best place to start since it's been refined over 300 years. And since the technique of playing it has been studied deeply perhaps this is the best we can ask for... for now.

Quote
Who will push for innovation? Certainly no one associated with classical music as any change would affect the relationship between the instrument, the player and the sound. Those who create modern music have made some changes what with stage pianos, software pianos, etc. but the basic keyboard remains as it is most likely a design that just works.


Just an aside... have you seen the ROLI Seaboard? This thing looks like it has great potential to be an expressive input device. If it takes off, it's up to the software developers to build beautiful sounding instruments that maximize its potential.

Re: DPs with soft bottoming out...
ElmerJFudd #2409366 04/12/15 01:02 AM
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Originally Posted by ElmerJFudd
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The fact that there are not multiple studies of dps causing injury is, in itself, a proof. In our litigious society there would have been numerous studies and class action suits if dp actions were dangerous, which I find an absurd statement.


Jim, that's speculative reasoning. I'll play devil's advocate here and speculate as well, but I'm not declaring it as fact...

Perhaps its not worth filing a suit you can't win because such a study would be very difficult to do. You need to prove causal relationship. Also, the digital piano playing % of our society is not very large (even if you include AP players as well, it's pretty small). And the number of them that put in the kind of hours that add up to injury is even smaller.

Here's some factual stuff...
Carpal tunnel, tendonitis and RSIs in general account for three fifths of all occupational injuries. Once the cat was out of the bag about computer keyboard and mouse use injured workers, they started going after their employers. But those pockets are shallow, and since no one wants the stigma of suing their boss, workers started going after computer keyboard manufacturers (beginning with Compaq back in the day). Again, here it is difficult to prove causal relationship between RSIs and computer use (although most people today accept the obvious to be true) what Compaq and the rest failed to do is warn workers that it is possible to develop an RSI on their equipment and had they warned them, the workers could have altered their behavior. Point being, the chance of successfully suing a keyboard manufacturer for RSI is low. And if the industry saw a massive class action suit coming, they'd start slapping "may cause RSI" stickers on their products.

Quote
To state that professional players suffer injury is not surprising and I don't think in any way only related to the piano. The piano is what it is. If you want to play on it hour after hour you will likely injure yourself as you would using any other device known to man. Try swinging a baseball bat 6 hours a day, hitting a golf ball 6 hours a day every day. Playing guitar, swimming, the list could go on forever. Also, the body absorbs impact better when younger but there is a cumulative effect with everything. Some pain is just a factor of growing older. Trying to legislate away the cumulative effects of repetitive motion is stupid. Its up to the individual to determine what their body can withstand.


Agreed, and very true. Life is about choices. And that is not unique to musical instrument study and mastery. For example, the issue of cyclists at risk of, "Prostate Cancer apparently. Mainly fanatical, long distance performance based riders are at risk. . .but I guess they`d rather pop their clogs half way up a mountain road than drag things out for years!" We have a very over-litigious society. You really can't make a life choice and then sue over it.

However, if you knew for fact that a particular design of keyboard action was just generally bad for anyone that played it, wouldn't you want to know which one(s) to avoid? So, in my mind it is OK for the original poster to share his experience with the instrument he is playing on. For others who are sensitive, perhaps that action is not a great choice for them.

Quote
I will agree that slavishly mimicking the action of an acoustic piano makes no sense. Except that they don't seem to have found an improvement that is acceptable to the wide range of players that the current layout provides.


I guess it's generally accepted that the AP action is the best place to start since it's been refined over 300 years. And since the technique of playing it has been studied deeply perhaps this is the best we can ask for... for now.

Quote
Who will push for innovation? Certainly no one associated with classical music as any change would affect the relationship between the instrument, the player and the sound. Those who create modern music have made some changes what with stage pianos, software pianos, etc. but the basic keyboard remains as it is most likely a design that just works.


Just an aside... have you seen the ROLI Seaboard? This thing looks like it has great potential to be an expressive input device. If it takes off, it's up to the software developers to build beautiful sounding instruments that maximize its potential.


It may be speculative reasoning but this thread is pretty speculative. I have no problem with the original poster sharing his experience. If he truly believes a Kawai keyboard injured him I have no problem with him seeking legal remedies. I just can't see him winning as many others play on the same keyboard and, with reasonable playing hours are not injured. Also, most people who read posts like this are likely to judge for themselves whether there is an inherent design flaw, as the poster has inferred or that there is sufficient evidence that the Kawai design is no better or worse than any other and that playing a couple of hours a day won't result in injury caused by the piano. Not that injury might not occur anyway.

Computer keyboards use for work are a little different in that if it is a job requirement there are legal protections relating to workman's comp that come into play. The hobbyist has no such protections.

Look, I just hate to see one of the 'usual suspects' (not the op)using this occasion to malign the dp on this public forum. As if you could actually find a law firm with enough confidence in a big payoff to take hobbyist tendonitis claim to court.

I have tendonitis in my right elbow. I got it from lifting too much weight. I'm not suing Bowflex. Its become chronic, but that's not Bowflex's fault.

It will be interesting to see, now that the software piano is quite sophisticated, what other input devices might be developed. I don't suppose there is really any reason the input device needs to be laid out like a piano with keys. But given that most people who actually make money from playing are happy with stage pianos and synths and the market is so small, there's not much pressure nor payback for innovation.


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Re: DPs with soft bottoming out...
ElmerJFudd #2409406 04/12/15 07:44 AM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,675
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4000 Post Club Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,675
Originally Posted by ElmerJFudd
Just an aside... have you seen the ROLI Seaboard?

The ultimate in soft bottoming! wink Haven't seen it in the flesh, but I can't imagine wanting to smash foam in order to make music, particularly percussive music. And it doesn't seem playable without keeping and eagle eye on your hands, another bugbear of mine when it comes to musical instruments. But godspeed to the developers because lord knows we need all the alternative controllers we can get.

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