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Re: Digital Piano for an adult Beginner.
Prinz #2406226 04/03/15 09:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Prinz
@Kawai James:
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I believe the CN24 is well priced at 950 EUR, however the CN25 is the latest model, with an improved keyboard action, and some useful additional functions such as USB connectivity and an iPad control app among other things.

-->IPad Control is nice to have for me but interesting to know that you don't disregard the CN24. A real salesman would say buy the CN25. It has definetly more options and the CN24 is anyway too old and in some years it will be "antique" (just joking :))
...

Prinz,

I know you're joking about Kawai James, but I can say that he is the least "salesy" person I've seen on any forum. He represents Kawai very well, but his advice about other brands is always fair, honest, and balanced. When someone asks for an opinion about pianos, he is just as likely to recommend another brand instead of Kawai if he feels that it's a better choice for the persons needs and budget. I think it's fair to say that he is one of the most respected people in this forum.

Regarding Kawai versus Casio, I have both. My first piano was a Casio PX-850. It's a very good piano for the price. It's a bit plain looking, but it has a good sound and keyboard. When I got to the point where I wanted a better keyboard action, I chose a Kawai MP11. Although it's a stage piano, I got it for the keyboard action and use it with two VI pianos - Ivory II and Galaxy Instruments.

I still have my PX-850, and am considering rebuilding and repurposing it as 1) a midi keyboard controller for my upstairs audio workstation and 2) for practicing when I'm traveling in our RV.

Given your budget and local prices, I have no problems recommending either brand at their price point.

Regards,

Dan.

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Re: Digital Piano for an adult Beginner.
Dan Clark #2406630 04/05/15 03:45 AM
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The advice you will get here, quite rightly, is "Play before you pay" or "Play as many different models, preferably side by side, as you can", but that is supposing you can play anything at all on a piano, if you've only recently started taking lessons it could be you haven't built up any kind of repertoire, assuming that to be the case, I would wait a few weeks until you have some material to try out when you visit the stores. Unless I've missed something, you don't say what piano you play at the moment, do you have a piano at home or are you using your teachers? I guess I could be accused of bias if I said which *range of pianos I'd choose from. In any case, it's the searching around which is the most pleasurable part of the process, once you make a final decision, some of the fun has been taken away. frown

*OK, I'll tell you...KAWAI. grin

Re: Digital Piano for an adult Beginner.
Prinz #2406655 04/05/15 05:07 AM
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Hi Prinz
I'm just over a year into learning to play and bought a Kawai CA 65. It's a very good DP and gets favourable reviews on this forum. Personally, I like it due to the weight of the keys and sound of the grand piano voice. However, I would have to say that if I had my choice again; I would try and get a DP that only has the sound of a piano and go as far as wanting just the GP voice. (Truth be told I would buy an acoustic if I could sell the CA 65 for a reasonable price). I can count on one hand the amount of times I have used the other voices. IMHO, the upright voice does not sound remotely like the Yamaha upright my piano teacher has. An added bonus is that because they have introduced the CA 67, the price of the CA65 has dropped to £1600. Obviously this is a bit over your budget, but if you can stretch to the extra I think it's worth it.

Phil

Re: Digital Piano for an adult Beginner.
Kawai James #2406693 04/05/15 09:04 AM
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I believe the equivalent Yamaha, Roland, and Casio instruments are also worth considering at this level. To be honest, provided you stick with an established, reputable brand, it's impossible to make a bad decision.


Thanks for this sentence. Now i can directly compare them and whatever i choose i can go home with "clear conscience".

Re: Digital Piano for an adult Beginner.
Prinz #2406694 04/05/15 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Prinz
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I believe the equivalent Yamaha, Roland, and Casio instruments are also worth considering at this level. To be honest, provided you stick with an established, reputable brand, it's impossible to make a bad decision.


Thanks for this sentence. Now i can directly compare them and whatever i choose i can go home with "clear conscience".


I was going to admonish the original quoter for not also mentioning Kawai, until I saw that it was Kawai James!


Keys: Yamaha GC2, Casio Privia PX-3, Roland RD800, Alesis VI61, Pianoteq 6.0
My motto: Play and Let Play!
Re: Digital Piano for an adult Beginner.
Jasper E. #2406701 04/05/15 09:25 AM
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@Jasper E:
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One more thought -- refining my comment on the heavier action at Yamaha,
In case you have a piano teacher, ask her or him. With a teacher it might be much quicker to get used to the heavier touch.
In case you plan to learn on your own, other brands seem to match you better for a while...

-->I have a teacher, but she is not so impressed by the digital pianos. May be i can ask other teachers in the same school.

Quote
About the artificial final notes: I was trying to google translate the reviews from German to English... It could make sense to ask Casio (or Mike) if there was a significant improvement in this area. Otherwise, and anyway, you will need to try out on your own (and in case you have a piano teacher, maybe ask her/him -- it is not good if the teacher is going crazy due to those artificial sounds). You, your teacher and your family members will be annoyed or not annoyed...

Oh thanks for the effort of google translating...I will ask Mike for that purpose. I will drive to a bigger city (Hamburg) to try all available DPs in my budget (inclusive Casio)

Quote
And about the testperson... some people used to acoustic pianos might find all digital ones strange and artificial, especially on the entry level. I wonder if the comment is due to this case or anything more specific?
On forums I generally read PX-860 / AP-460 has very good sound in its price range...

I think you are right. He wrote: The piano sound is a "little bit" artificial. I think, for a person who has several years experience with an acoustic piano will find any DP a "little bit" strange, but again: I will ask Mike what he thinks regarding this topic.

Re: Digital Piano for an adult Beginner.
petes1 #2406708 04/05/15 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by petes1
Originally Posted by Prinz
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I believe the equivalent Yamaha, Roland, and Casio instruments are also worth considering at this level. To be honest, provided you stick with an established, reputable brand, it's impossible to make a bad decision.


Thanks for this sentence. Now i can directly compare them and whatever i choose i can go home with "clear conscience".


I was going to admonish the original quoter for not also mentioning Kawai, until I saw that it was Kawai James!


Hahaha...Right..you don't need to admonish him.
Kawai is good enough, so that he doesn't need to advertise for it. It's like Audi here in Germany, which is now on the same level of Mercedes and BMW or even better in some models.

P.S. In your signature there is no Kawai? -->Keys: Yamaha GC2, Casio Privia PX-3, Roland RD800 laugh laugh

Re: Digital Piano for an adult Beginner.
Dan Clark #2406750 04/05/15 11:56 AM
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@Dan Clark
Quote
I know you're joking about Kawai James, but I can say that he is the least "salesy" person I've seen on any forum. He represents Kawai very well, but his advice about other brands is always fair, honest, and balanced. When someone asks for an opinion about pianos, he is just as likely to recommend another brand instead of Kawai if he feels that it's a better choice for the persons needs and budget. I think it's fair to say that he is one of the most respected people in this forum.

--> Great to read this statement. It confirmed my assumption. Kawai James keep it up!

Quote
I still have my PX-850, and am considering rebuilding and repurposing it as 1) a midi keyboard controller for my upstairs audio workstation and 2) for practicing when I'm traveling in our RV.

Given your budget and local prices, I have no problems recommending either brand at their price point.

--> PX850 is on my list now. Can't wait to test/ play it. Thanks for the recommendation.


Re: Digital Piano for an adult Beginner.
bluebilly #2406753 04/05/15 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by bluebilly
The advice you will get here, quite rightly, is "Play before you pay" or "Play as many different models, preferably side by side, as you can", but that is supposing you can play anything at all on a piano, if you've only recently started taking lessons it could be you haven't built up any kind of repertoire, assuming that to be the case, I would wait a few weeks until you have some material to try out when you visit the stores. Unless I've missed something, you don't say what piano you play at the moment, do you have a piano at home or are you using your teachers? I guess I could be accused of bias if I said which *range of pianos I'd choose from. In any case, it's the searching around which is the most pleasurable part of the process, once you make a final decision, some of the fun has been taken away. frown

*OK, I'll tell you...KAWAI. grin

Well, you confirmed my thoughts. Since i am a beginner i doubt that i have some material to try. The only thing that i can do is to play "very beginner" exercices.
I play an acoustic piano (Kawai) but only in the school. But interesting to read your last sentence. Ive never read here in the forum that someone claims about Kawai DPs...

Re: Digital Piano for an adult Beginner.
Phil Greenough #2406756 04/05/15 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Phil Greenough
Hi Prinz
I'm just over a year into learning to play and bought a Kawai CA 65. It's a very good DP and gets favourable reviews on this forum. Personally, I like it due to the weight of the keys and sound of the grand piano voice. However, I would have to say that if I had my choice again; I would try and get a DP that only has the sound of a piano and go as far as wanting just the GP voice. (Truth be told I would buy an acoustic if I could sell the CA 65 for a reasonable price). I can count on one hand the amount of times I have used the other voices. IMHO, the upright voice does not sound remotely like the Yamaha upright my piano teacher has. An added bonus is that because they have introduced the CA 67, the price of the CA65 has dropped to £1600. Obviously this is a bit over your budget, but if you can stretch to the extra I think it's worth it.

Phil

--> CA65 is over my budget, but i read here in the forum that so many people wanted after few months to upgrade their DP after choosing at first a low end model (up to 1000 EUR). Hmm to be honest, it confused me a little bit. I am not sure about this, because i want really only a good piano sound and a good action is for me of capital importance, but i can understand that DPs that most closely represents APs regarding this point are may be clearly over my budget.

Re: Digital Piano for an adult Beginner.
Prinz #2406771 04/05/15 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Prinz
Originally Posted by bluebilly
The advice you will get here, quite rightly, is "Play before you pay" or "Play as many different models, preferably side by side, as you can", but that is supposing you can play anything at all on a piano, if you've only recently started taking lessons it could be you haven't built up any kind of repertoire, assuming that to be the case, I would wait a few weeks until you have some material to try out when you visit the stores. Unless I've missed something, you don't say what piano you play at the moment, do you have a piano at home or are you using your teachers? I guess I could be accused of bias if I said which *range of pianos I'd choose from. In any case, it's the searching around which is the most pleasurable part of the process, once you make a final decision, some of the fun has been taken away. frown

*OK, I'll tell you...KAWAI. grin

Well, you confirmed my thoughts. Since i am a beginner i doubt that i have some material to try. The only thing that i can do is to play "very beginner" exercices.
I play an acoustic piano (Kawai) but only in the school. But interesting to read your last sentence. Ive never read here in the forum that someone claims about Kawai DPs...

Just a thought: Kawai only make pianos they don't make Wrist Watches, Clocks or Motorcycles...unless they have started to very recently. smile

Re: Digital Piano for an adult Beginner.
Prinz #2406933 04/06/15 01:55 AM
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If you go to Hamburg, "Just Music" in the Heiligengeistfeld-Bunker is a very good place to look and play all of the above side-by-side. And they have competitive prices!

And here is the bad news: you will have to wait until end of May for the new Kawai CA-17 to be available. I hate waiting, but the specs look really good so if it is not over budget ("under 2000 EUR") and you can wait, have a look.


Kawai CN35. Daughter wanted a piano, so we got one. Now who'll learn faster? ;-)
Re: Digital Piano for an adult Beginner.
Hendrik42 #2407166 04/06/15 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Hendrik42
If you go to Hamburg, "Just Music" in the Heiligengeistfeld-Bunker is a very good place to look and play all of the above side-by-side. And they have competitive prices!

And here is the bad news: you will have to wait until end of May for the new Kawai CA-17 to be available. I hate waiting, but the specs look really good so if it is not over budget ("under 2000 EUR") and you can wait, have a look.


Hi Hendrik,

thanks for the recommendation. I took a look at the webseite. Very huge variety of DPs indeed! I will definetely visit it, since they have almost all models i am looking for!
Exception: CN24 is not avialable. Should be no problem because they have the models CS4 or ES7 (RHII), so I can test the action, which is on my priority list Nr. 1!
Same problem for CASIO PX-850, but I think should be also no problem since the CASIO models have the same key action.

CA17 is over my budget (around 1200 EUR). But interesting to see in your signature the model CN35 (which is also available) and then to read your comment about the CA17.
May I ask you since when you learn piano? Are you not happy with the CN35?

Gruss,
Prinz.

Last edited by Prinz; 04/06/15 03:28 PM.
Re: Digital Piano for an adult Beginner.
Prinz #2407359 04/07/15 03:04 AM
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Hi Prinz, we started the piano journey in December last year when my six year old repeated the wish to have a piano. We visited a few dealers and I talked to some friends who own (DP or acoustic) pianos etc.

I was very happy that I could rule out acoustics very fast, because I wanted to play at night and when the child grows up who knows when she might want to play. I did not want to put limits on that. I was happy because this reduced the options by several orders of magnitude :-)

We are very happy with the CN35, do not get me wrong on this. Totally the right decision for us. What I was trying to say is that I would have had a very hard time to decide between CN35 and CA17. But in December/January a CA17 did not exist, so it was quite easy to choose the CN35.

If I had known that the CA17 would come in May (and maybe available for purchase in June?), would I have waited? No. But I may have had a hard time because of it :-)


Kawai CN35. Daughter wanted a piano, so we got one. Now who'll learn faster? ;-)
Re: Digital Piano for an adult Beginner.
Hendrik42 #2408549 04/09/15 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Hendrik42
Hi Prinz, we started the piano journey in December last year when my six year old repeated the wish to have a piano. We visited a few dealers and I talked to some friends who own (DP or acoustic) pianos etc.

I was very happy that I could rule out acoustics very fast, because I wanted to play at night and when the child grows up who knows when she might want to play. I did not want to put limits on that. I was happy because this reduced the options by several orders of magnitude :-)

We are very happy with the CN35, do not get me wrong on this. Totally the right decision for us. What I was trying to say is that I would have had a very hard time to decide between CN35 and CA17. But in December/January a CA17 did not exist, so it was quite easy to choose the CN35.

If I had known that the CA17 would come in May (and maybe available for purchase in June?), would I have waited? No. But I may have had a hard time because of it :-)


Great for you..Wish you best of luck in your lessons smile

Good to read that the CN34 was a great choice for you..

I have CN25 on my list which is really the upper limit of my budget!

Re: Digital Piano for an adult Beginner.
Prinz #2408552 04/09/15 03:26 PM
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I am now hearing some reviews for the Casios... Interesting to see how much good resonance they have... Will see how it sound and plays on live..

This is a great video for me (beginner) showing two people playing on the same time on an acoustic and the Celviano of Casio.. The difference for me is not tooo big...BUT the acoustic sounds really more "spirited"

Minute 2:40 begins the demonstration:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvwJbUXPIaQ


Last edited by Prinz; 04/09/15 03:28 PM.
Re: Digital Piano for an adult Beginner.
Prinz #2408751 04/10/15 04:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Prinz

Exception: CN24 is not avialable. Should be no problem because they have the models CS4 or ES7 (RHII), so I can test the action, which is on my priority list Nr. 1!
Same problem for CASIO PX-850, but I think should be also no problem since the CASIO models have the same key action.

Gruss,
Prinz.


On CN24: Dont forget to try out CN25 then. It has an improved action RHIII instead of RHII and should be still in the price range.

For the same problem for PX-850: try PX-860 and/or AP-460 (or even AP-450 if still available).
x60s have the hall simulation function as well smile. AP-4x0 comes with a different cabinet, but as far as I understand otherwise should be the same piano as PX-8x0. [The cabinet can make a difference in the sound when using the own speakers of the digital piano]


Kawai KDP-90
Re: Digital Piano for an adult Beginner.
bluebilly #2408858 04/10/15 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by bluebilly
Just a thought: Kawai only make pianos they don't make Wrist Watches, Clocks or Motorcycles...unless they have started to very recently. smile


Ahhh trolling. The digital piano field is pretty wide open.

Yamaha is notorious for intentionally crippling their digital piano actions because they want you to buy their acoustics (or spend a lot of money for their higher end models).

Kawai was very late to the digital game, likely because of their acoustic heritage and the very large investment needed to go into digitals.

The guts of a digital piano are entirely different from an acoustic one. Casio has established a good market for themselves in digital pianos, especially when it comes to value.

Re: Digital Piano for an adult Beginner.
Prinz #2408870 04/10/15 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Prinz
I have CN25 on my list which is really the upper limit of my budget!



Oh ... well, if you can manage the cost of the CN25, that is definitely the one I would get. However, it is always dangerous to purchase without actually playing and hearing it in a "Live" (not over the internet) session.


Don

Casio PX-S1000, Focal Professional CMS 40 near-field monitors, SennHeiser HD 559 Headphones, Pianoteq and numerous other VSTs (Seldom Used), Focus Rite Scarlett 2i2 Audio Interface, Yamaha MG06 Mixer
Re: Digital Piano for an adult Beginner.
dmd #2408881 04/10/15 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by dmd
Originally Posted by Prinz
I have CN25 on my list which is really the upper limit of my budget!



Oh ... well, if you can manage the cost of the CN25, that is definitely the one I would get. However, it is always dangerous to purchase without actually playing and hearing it in a "Live" (not over the internet) session.


Well, i can manage the cost for it: 1250 Euro here in Germany.

But i got better prices for the CN24 (950 E) and the Casio PX850(800 E). I will see if the purchhse of the CN25 and its RHIII action worthwhile is...

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