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Having a hard time transitioning to a heavier key action
#2404607 03/30/15 06:06 PM
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Coming from a P85 with light action.

I recently bought the P95 which has heavier action, I'm finding I'm fatigued much easier and having to press harder to achieve the same results I did with the lighter P85 action.

Does anyone else have a similar experience?

Is this just "growing pains" or am I supposed to feel more tense with a newer heavier key action?

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Re: Having a hard time transitioning to a heavier key action
symphonicfinale #2404618 03/30/15 06:39 PM
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You will have to experiment a bit.
I would say first, does the p95 have a feature where you can set the velocity curve to be a bit more aggressive so you don't have to dig in so hard to get your forte?
Then just make sure that you're just fatigued and not in pain.
You shouldn't have pain or strain that might lead to tendonitis or something.
So adjust the setting and your playing style.
If you make the transition over a week or three, great.
If it's just not a good match for you. Return it and look for an action that suits you better.

Re: Having a hard time transitioning to a heavier key action
ElmerJFudd #2404855 03/31/15 10:11 AM
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From what I've found on the Web, the P85 and P95 both use the "GHS" action. As DP actions go, it's on the "lightweight" end of the scale.

Is there a "Touch" parameter in the P95 menus system? If so, set it as low as you can.

I strongly suggest getting a teacher, and taking some lessons. I suspect you have developed some really bad technical habits -- maybe using finger action, instead of "arm weight". If you started out playing on a synth-action keyboard, that's quite likely.

General rule for piano playing:

. . . If it hurts, STOP, and figure out how to change
. . . what you're doing so it doesn't hurt.

. Charles (who rejected the P105 partly because its GHS action
. . . . . . was too light)






. Charles
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Re: Having a hard time transitioning to a heavier key action
symphonicfinale #2404899 03/31/15 11:09 AM
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Good advice so far. If the actions on the two instruments are the same, then it's the sound/volume that is the problem. Be sure your volume is turned up reasonably loud - definitely more than halfway if not 75% volume. There should be a touch setting you can adjust, go for a lighter one which will get you to a forte sound much easier.

Also, you may want to try to find a brighter sound to play (maybe if there are some EQ settings you can adjust). You are accustomed to the same sound and feel of your old instrument, and it will take a month or two of regular playing to grow used to this new one. Be sure to not try and sound like you did on the old DP, but find out what's unique about the sound of the new DP and try to make something new, even with old music. If you're not able to do this, I recommend learning some new pieces on the new DP so at least you're not trying to recreate something that it can't do. Then you should be able to gradually try old pieces again once you're used to how things sound.


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Re: Having a hard time transitioning to a heavier key action
symphonicfinale #2404950 03/31/15 01:22 PM
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One more thing, did you change the bench or stand? If the height of either changed it could have changed your posture.

Is the action the same? It seems there are claims in this forum that Yamaha changes things without changing the name from time to time. But then again your P85 could have worn in or something.

Re: Having a hard time transitioning to a heavier key action
Charles Cohen #2404995 03/31/15 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Charles Cohen
I strongly suggest getting a teacher, and taking some lessons. I suspect you have developed some really bad technical habits -- maybe using finger action, instead of "arm weight". If you started out playing on a synth-action keyboard, that's quite likely.

This!

Re: Having a hard time transitioning to a heavier key action
Morodiene #2405212 04/01/15 04:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Morodiene
Good advice so far. If the actions on the two instruments are the same, then it's the sound/volume that is the problem. Be sure your volume is turned up reasonably loud - definitely more than halfway if not 75% volume. There should be a touch setting you can adjust, go for a lighter one which will get you to a forte sound much easier.

Also, you may want to try to find a brighter sound to play (maybe if there are some EQ settings you can adjust). You are accustomed to the same sound and feel of your old instrument, and it will take a month or two of regular playing to grow used to this new one. Be sure to not try and sound like you did on the old DP, but find out what's unique about the sound of the new DP and try to make something new, even with old music. If you're not able to do this, I recommend learning some new pieces on the new DP so at least you're not trying to recreate something that it can't do. Then you should be able to gradually try old pieces again once you're used to how things sound.


Very sound advice. Also the advice from Charles Cohen above.

Re: Having a hard time transitioning to a heavier key action
maurus #2405233 04/01/15 06:06 AM
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Originally Posted by maurus
Originally Posted by Charles Cohen
I strongly suggest getting a teacher, and taking some lessons. I suspect you have developed some really bad technical habits -- maybe using finger action, instead of "arm weight". If you started out playing on a synth-action keyboard, that's quite likely.

This!


How on earth can you use arm weight in playing the piano? the arm supports the hands which do the wiggling, which make the noise. If this is not so, something else, like the fingers, would have to . . .that would cause problems!


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Re: Having a hard time transitioning to a heavier key action
symphonicfinale #2405239 04/01/15 06:43 AM
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Yes, but you can use the weight of the arm to strike notes or you can hold your arm rigid, suspended over the keyboard, using muscles in the hand to work the fingers. I think Charles and Morodiene are suggesting that the former technique is the correct technique, except in particular circumstances, where a different effect is needed.


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Re: Having a hard time transitioning to a heavier key action
symphonicfinale #2405242 04/01/15 06:46 AM
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A good link to an article or video would be good about arm weight (google returns loads of results...what one to trust tho?...)

With guitar you use your arm and shoulders to help the fretting hand. I'd imagine it's along the same lines

Re: Having a hard time transitioning to a heavier key action
paradice #2405289 04/01/15 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by paradice
A good link to an article or video would be good about arm weight (google returns loads of results...what one to trust tho?...)

With guitar you use your arm and shoulders to help the fretting hand. I'd imagine it's along the same lines


You really can't learn technique from a video or a forum because what is required is an explanation, then an attempt observed by the teacher, then a response to correct and repeat until the desired technique is achieved.


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Re: Having a hard time transitioning to a heavier key action
symphonicfinale #2405302 04/01/15 09:51 AM
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No, nothing replaces a teacher in person, however if that is not an option for whatever reasons, then Andrew Furmanczyk has a video on posture at the piano.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-OpESpRYeI&index=17&list=PL253192EED47525A8


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Re: Having a hard time transitioning to a heavier key action
symphonicfinale #2405306 04/01/15 10:04 AM
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You can't learn the arm weight thing online because you don't even use it all the time, it depends a lot on what you're playing. Everything online simplifies it a lot.

But if you are not happy with your new DP see if you can take it back. You already had one you liked, don't let everyone tell you an action you feel is overly heavy is the right thing for you. You know better than the forum what is best for you.

A lot of the current DPs are overly heavy and harsh but most people here will never tell you that.

Re: Having a hard time transitioning to a heavier key action
symphonicfinale #2405381 04/01/15 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by symphonicfinale
Coming from a P85 with light action.

I recently bought the P95 which has heavier action, I'm finding I'm fatigued much easier and having to press harder to achieve the same results I did with the lighter P85 action.

Does anyone else have a similar experience?

Is this just "growing pains" or am I supposed to feel more tense with a newer heavier key action?


I don't know what you mean by 'recently'? Transition time would depend on many things, primarily on correct technique.

I transitioned from 'none' to 'heavy' in January. Took me about 2 weeks to feel 'at home' on the keys, playing around 2 hours daily. Important to this was the fact that I had then spent 6 weeks with a teacher correction my then rather appalling technique.


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