2022 our 25th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Who's Online Now
65 members (antune, Colin Miles, anotherscott, AndyOnThePiano2, benkeys, brennbaer, DaCapoDiTuttiCapi, APianistHasNoName, AlkansBookcase, 9 invisible), 1,861 guests, and 332 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 80
A
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
A
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 80
Please, I am looking for pieces (2-3 Grades) in B major.
Also I'm looking for pieces in Db major and Gb major.
Any suggestion?
Bernhard recommends in pianostreet to start scales work with these three ones.

Last edited by Aceituna; 03/31/15 09:49 AM.
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,182
W
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
W
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,182
B Major is simply not in those grades.. B Major scales start at grade 4. Pieces perhaps even later.

Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 4,765
O
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
O
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 4,765
You can practice the scale and improvise on it, but easy pieces tend to be written in keys with less sharps, so I doubt you'll find them in the classical repertoire. Same goes for the scales starting on black keys.

Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 80
A
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
A
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 80

Last edited by Aceituna; 03/31/15 07:17 AM.
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,065
E
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
E
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,065
Originally Posted by Aceituna


Which one do you think is the easiest?


difficult to say without knowing what is your experience


Surprisingly easy, barely an inconvenience.

Kawai K8 & Kawai Novus NV10


13x[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 80
A
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
A
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 80
I'm a beginner.
In your opinion which is the easiest one?

I found this another in Db major:
https://musescore.com/user/133213/scores/140875

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,462
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,462
Not the greatest, but they are what I used as a kid

Schaums scales and pieces in all keys books 1 and 2
Schaums around the world in all keys

Much better but higher level are

Victor lebenske Piano Miniatures
William gillock Lyric Preludes in romantic style

Much higher level
Robert vandall Preludes
Dennis alexander 24 Character Preludes



[Linked Image] [Linked Image]
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,462
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,462


The second is easiest, but intermediate leveL. It has too many shifts and large spans for a beginner.
The first has an odd time signature (5/4) plus I thought I saw the need to bring out multiple voices in one hand.
The third also has multiple voices.

B major may be a good key signature for beginning scales. It is usually not a good one for beginning pieces. The schaum books I mentioned are one of the few sets that are at beginner level, but the are simplifies and probably transposed pieces. The other books I mentioned in my previos post are worth learning. I've played some in past recitals. The book by labenske is UK grades 3-4.


[Linked Image] [Linked Image]
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,048
Z
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Z
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,048
Practising pieces with many black keys and scales with many black keys are very different things. Beginner's pieces will allow the hand to reach a wider range than five keys by stretching out the fingers and later by passing the thumb under the second and third fingers.

Increasing the reach by pivoting around the fourth finger is more advanced and that's where scales begin to be effective. Black key scales are easier because the fourth finger, under which the thumb passes, is raised on a black key. In C major it is not. C is therefore the hardest scale mechanically and should be the last learned.

I am strongly opposed to the way scales are frequently taught and supported by examining bodies. G, F and D majors should at least be left until the student is experienced enough to establish his own fingering for the scales - or be taught both ways.

For beginners it is better to read pieces that use fewer black keys to facilitate reading. Scales are not read but played from memory so facility and comfort is more important.

If you're a beginner stick with a wide range of repertoire for the time being. You will develop a flexible mechanism and the brain will find ergonomic movements while you sleep. When you have a flexible and versatile mechanism familiar with pivoting on the thumb alternately with 2nd and 3rd fingers you will begin to get a benefit from scale practise. Without a developed mechanism scales can put your hand in a straightjacket and hinder development unless you have a good teacher to bypass the problems and speed up the process.



Richard
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 4,765
O
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
O
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 4,765


It depends on what you want to do with them and your personal properties. For me the first one would be the easiest. A fugue is a bit far fetched for a beginner, whatever the key.

If a beginner is prepared to take it slow and work carefully, he can definitely learn the first two. They are musically quite simple. Time signatures and keys with many sharps and flats are not difficult to play physically (for an adult with good size hands), the difficulties are more of the mental kind, so whether you struggle or not depends on how easy it is for you to grasp such things and how easy it is for you to memorize.

But does it make sense? To learn something that maybe has little musical value just because you want to start on a certain scale supposedly recommended by someone who lived 200 years ago and in a very different world? While there's so much material for us now to start on? Besides old Fred was known to never teach beginners, so what he recommended may have worked better when learning better physical technique as someone already quite familiar with the piano.

OTOH I also see a problem with the common approach of waiting so long before adding more keys. It's much harder to think of the whites and blacks as equal keys (which they are when we study music theory) when the blacks are so rarely used in the first years. I would see some value in an approach where the whole keyboard is used as soon as possible, but that may be because I am a very "holistic" type of a learner. Learning small bits and pieces and then glueing them together has never worked for me. I need to "get the big picture" first and then add details.

Last edited by outo; 03/31/15 08:21 AM.
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 394
M
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
M
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 394
Just a suggestion, but why not find a piece at your desired skill level, in any key, and transpose it into B major?

Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 64
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 64
The only piece I could find on the Piano Syllabus site in those keys at grade 2-3 was Franck's Poco lento no 46 in Gb major. Check it out
here.

Last edited by IanW; 03/31/15 08:41 AM.
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 6,427
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 6,427
Originally Posted by DragonPianoPlayer
Not the greatest, but they are what I used as a kid

Schaums scales and pieces in all keys books 1 and 2
Schaums around the world in all keys



These are still available:

http://www.sheetmusicplus.com/title/scales-and-pieces-in-all-keys-book-1-sheet-music/4983812


Learner
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 959
MRC Offline
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 959
Originally Posted by zrtf90
Practising pieces with many black keys and scales with many black keys are very different things. Beginner's pieces will allow the hand to reach a wider range than five keys by stretching out the fingers and later by passing the thumb under the second and third fingers.


+1

Practice the scales in B, Gb and Db major, but don't worry about choosing pieces in these keys.


Steinway A grand (1919), Yamaha P2 upright (1983), Kawai ES-100 (2019)
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 4,765
O
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
O
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 4,765
Originally Posted by IanW
The only piece I could find on the Piano Syllabus site in those keys at grade 2-3 was Franck's Poco lento no 46 in Gb major. Check it out
here.


These short Franck organ pieces tend to be quite complicated to play with many voices and large intervals. "Unpianistic" my teacher calls them... Even if graded "just" 3, I wouldn't necessarily recommend it for a beginner without a teacher.

Last edited by outo; 03/31/15 08:57 AM.
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 64
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 64
Did Franck originally write this piece for piano or organ?

Last edited by IanW; 03/31/15 09:08 AM.
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 80
A
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
A
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 80
Thank you very much to all.

Originally Posted by Medden
Just a suggestion, but why not find a piece at your desired skill level, in any key, and transpose it into B major?


Maybe this is the best solution.

Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 959
MRC Offline
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 959
Originally Posted by IanW
Did Franck originally write this piece for piano or organ?


For organ or harmonium. It's from a collection called "l'organiste" where Franck had the project of writing a series of pieces in all major and minor keys. He started with C major, going up through the keys chromatically, but died before he had finished the series, only getting as far as Ab major.


Steinway A grand (1919), Yamaha P2 upright (1983), Kawai ES-100 (2019)
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 4,765
O
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
O
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 4,765
Originally Posted by IanW
Did Franck originally write this piece for piano or organ?


For harmonium actually.

Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 80
A
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
A
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 80
Minuet in G trasposed to B major:
https://musescore.com/user/131491/scores/753401

Please, any advice?

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Bart K, platuser 

Link Copied to Clipboard
What's Hot!!
Piano World Has Been Sold!
--------------------
Forums RULES, Terms of Service & HELP
(updated 06/06/2022)
---------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
(ad)
(ad)
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Estonia 1990
by Iberia - 04/16/24 11:01 AM
Very Cheap Piano?
by Tweedpipe - 04/16/24 10:13 AM
Practical Meaning of SMP
by rneedle - 04/16/24 09:57 AM
Country style lessons
by Stephen_James - 04/16/24 06:04 AM
How Much to Sell For?
by TexasMom1 - 04/15/24 10:23 PM
Forum Statistics
Forums43
Topics223,390
Posts3,349,223
Members111,632
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010

Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations |

Advertise on Piano World
| Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map


Copyright © VerticalScope Inc. All Rights Reserved.
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community.