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#24026 - 10/09/05 09:25 AM on the verge of buying a Perzina 51" sight-unseen  
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syswei Offline
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No dealer within a reasonable drive has the 51" GP129, but most of the comments I have seen on this board have been favorable.

If there's anyone out there who has played one of these units but hasn't posted their impressions, I'd appreciate hearing.

Unless a suitable used upright in my price range appears in the next few days, it'll be a satin walnut Perzina for me. Of course buying a piano without playing it, or in fact any Perzina, is taking a chance. To some extent I also have to cross my fingers that I get a good unit, and that it's well-prepped. Letting the dealer know that I've read about Perzina on this forum (and by implication that I could post my experience and happiness/unhappiness here) will hopefully keep him honest! I'll let everyone know how the delivered unit sounds and looks.

This forum has been invaluable. Special thanks to Eins, with whom I've exchanged emails offline.

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#24027 - 10/09/05 09:38 AM Re: on the verge of buying a Perzina 51" sight-unseen  
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Justplay Offline
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How does one go about finding a Perzina dealer. I actually heard good things and would like to know what their website is? How would one compare it to the Young Chang?

#24028 - 10/09/05 09:55 AM Re: on the verge of buying a Perzina 51" sight-unseen  
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syswei Offline
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The website is http://www.perzinapiano.com. But it is not terribly useful.

Click on the contact tab and call them for the dealer nearest you.

#24029 - 10/09/05 10:03 AM Re: on the verge of buying a Perzina 51" sight-unseen  
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velopresto Offline
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I would recommend waiting until you play and hear the piano before you make the purchase.

NO offense against Perzina. I've heard they're good pianos. But I wouldn't recommend buying ANY piano, be it a Steinway, Mason, Sauter, Boesendorfer, whatever, without checking out the specific piano in question first.

Each piano is an individual. No matter how consistent the manufacturing process is, it is assembled using different spruce in the soundboard; voicing can be quite different from one to the next; actions can be regulated to create a different feel and response. Etc., etc....

Just advice from someone who occasionally sees pianos delivered to homes fresh out of the crate--have patience! More than one customer has been disappointed in making a blind purchase.


Dave Stahl
Dave Stahl Piano Service
Santa Clara, CA
Serving most of the greater SF Bay Area
http://dstahlpiano.net
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#24030 - 10/09/05 10:24 AM Re: on the verge of buying a Perzina 51" sight-unseen  
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Monica K. Offline

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Lexington, Kentucky
Perhaps you could work something out with the dealer? Tell him you are very interested in the piano but want to build in some sort of protection should it turn out to be disappointing. Ask him what kind of buy-back option he could provide. If I were going to buy a piano sight unseen, I'd be willing to pay a higher price upfront if I knew that I could return the piano should it prove unsatisfactory. But this is something that should definitely be negotiated in advance.

That said, I WOULDN'T buy a piano sight unseen. During my shopping I had too many experiences of sitting down at identical models of pianos at the same showroom and liking one of them but not the other, and these were higher end pianos you would hope to have more consistency. So I think you are taking a chance. And I agree with Dave that it's not a slam against Perzina at all, which really ARE good pianos.

I didn't want to have to travel to buy my piano, but I didn't have many choices where I lived. And it turned out that it was actually a lot of fun to make my piano shopping trips.

I think it all comes down to how risk averse you are. I'd say there's an 80% chance you'll be tickled pink with your new Perzina. How motivated are you to avoid the 20% chance you're disappointed? Is it worth it to take the time and expense of going someplace where you can play one first? I'd feel a lot more comfortable buying a piano sight unseen if I had at least played an example of that model somewhere else so that I knew I liked the action and sound (in general). Maybe there's somebody in your area who owns a Perzina who would let you try it out?


Mason & Hamlin A -- 91997
My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/pianomonica
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#24031 - 10/09/05 10:41 AM Re: on the verge of buying a Perzina 51" sight-unseen  
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Axtremus Offline
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Recommend that you make arrangement to:

1. Make sure you have a chance to play/examine the piano at the dealer's (assuming he has done the proper setup and preparation) before taking delivery.

2. Make sure you retain the right to reject the piano if you're not satisfied with the piano when you play/examine the piano.

Good luck.

#24032 - 10/09/05 12:02 PM Re: on the verge of buying a Perzina 51" sight-unseen  
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ftp Offline
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Philadelphia
Great comments by Monica, velopresto and Axtremus.

Syswei--sounds like you are buying from a dealer who is not local?

If so, my question would be can you a piano delivered to your house, play it, then accept or reject whereby the piano is not considered used? There have been recent heated discussions on "returns" but if one can test at home before taking delivery would that solve one of the problems of new vs. used.

Of course if one buys a reconditioned/restored/rebuit piano, the ownership issue is much less of a problem it would seem and the cost/risk is easily quantifiable.

#24033 - 10/09/05 12:09 PM Re: on the verge of buying a Perzina 51" sight-unseen  
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Eins Offline
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Utah
What Axtremus said!

Monica, you appear to have had experience with Perzina. I'd be very interested to read about it. Please elaborate.

Shelton, thanks for the kind words. I'm sure your journey will end at its intended destination. It just takes a bit of road-mapping and patience.

Best


One of the funny things about the stock market is that every time one person buys, another sells, and both think they are astute.
-William Feather
#24034 - 10/09/05 02:50 PM Re: on the verge of buying a Perzina 51" sight-unseen  
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Monica K. Offline

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Lexington, Kentucky
Quote
Originally posted by Eins:

Monica, you appear to have had experience with Perzina. I'd be very interested to read about it. Please elaborate.

Sorry if I implied that...I was basing my endorsement on what I've read in Fine and heard here. E.g. in the 2005-2006 supplement, Fine says "the Perzina verticals are the best sounding verticals from China, the bass being particularly notable." I should be more careful to specify what is first-hand opinion on my part and what is not.


Mason & Hamlin A -- 91997
My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/pianomonica
[Linked Image][Linked Image][Linked Image]
#24035 - 10/09/05 03:44 PM Re: on the verge of buying a Perzina 51" sight-unseen  
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Art Olson Offline
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San Marcos, CA
We have had no problems with any piano from the Perzina factory.
It is always better to see and play any piano before you purchase it, but if you just can't do that, I think that the Perzina is a pretty safe bet.

Art


Artistic Pianos
North San Diego
artisticpianos.com
#24036 - 10/09/05 06:52 PM Re: on the verge of buying a Perzina 51" sight-unseen  
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velopresto Offline
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Here's an arrangement that may be potentially beneficial for all involved. I've seen it used before to the satisfaction of both dealer and client.

Put a (refundable) deposit down on the piano, perhaps half the cost.

Offer to pay a specified pickup charge to the dealer should the piano prove unsatisfactory.

Have the piano delivered to your home.

Listen to it, play it for a few days(if you haven't had the chance to check it out in the store first). The piano WILL sound different in your home than it did in the store.

If satisfied, pay the store the remainder of the balance.

If unsatisfied, have the piano picked up at your cost and get your money back (minus the delivery-pickup charge).


Good luck!


Dave Stahl
Dave Stahl Piano Service
Santa Clara, CA
Serving most of the greater SF Bay Area
http://dstahlpiano.net
#24037 - 10/20/05 10:16 PM Re: on the verge of buying a Perzina 51" sight-unseen  
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syswei Offline
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Thank you all for the suggestions. Some of the ideas regarding arrangements with the dealer make perfect sense, but aren't really workable because the dealer has never taken delivery of a Perzina...so he would be taking a chance too if I asked him to essentially shoulder some of the risk of buying blind.

I was given sufficient assurances from the distributor (that I was getting a good unit) and the dealer (that he would do good prep work) that I went ahead.

I'll let everyone know how it turns out once I get it in my home and tuned!

#24038 - 10/20/05 10:57 PM Re: on the verge of buying a Perzina 51" sight-unseen  
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ntman2 Offline
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Whew, what a risky venture. I rather think that sky diving without a parachute would have a better chance of a good outcome.


My two cents -- Mason & Hamlin Model A
#24039 - 10/20/05 11:05 PM Re: on the verge of buying a Perzina 51" sight-unseen  
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Eins Offline
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Utah
Well, I think it definitely is not a crappy piano and I wonder what ntman2's insider information is to make such a claim.

If not already directed this way, I would, however, insist on the piano being shipped to the dealer first, give him opportunity to prep, and then go to approve of it or request more regulation before you accept it to be delivered to your house.

Congratulation on your decision and I'd be very surprised if you didn't like it in the end.


One of the funny things about the stock market is that every time one person buys, another sells, and both think they are astute.
-William Feather
#24040 - 10/20/05 11:18 PM Re: on the verge of buying a Perzina 51" sight-unseen  
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Guy D' Offline
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I do hope you are a Perzina salesman trying to drum a business and not a consumer. I find the scenario practically unbelievable.

If you truly are a consumer, would you buy a car without driving it? Would you order a spouse sight unseen? I hope you can realize that it is in your best interest to at least shell out the transportation costs to check it out.

I strongly suggest that you have a rejection clause written into the sales contract and have it notarized, if you insist on going through this. Pianos, even of the same make and model have much variance. I've never heard of a Perzina piano, and would take little comfort in knowing it to be the 'best sounding upright to come out of China'. In itself, that is a red herring.

#24041 - 10/20/05 11:26 PM Re: on the verge of buying a Perzina 51" sight-unseen  
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ntman2 Offline
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No insider information. We looked at too many pianos to ever even think of having one, still in the crate, delivered to our home in the off chance we would like it. We even found that it usually took 3 to 4 hearings/playing to know just where each piano fit into our liking/disliking. For example we fell in love with the Schimmel grands, however after playing several 3 to 4 times or more over several weeks my wife decided that as sweet as the Schimmel sounded it was definitely not the piano for us. Nothing against that brand or any brand that anyone likes. Its just the delivery to your home sight unseen but far more importantly ear unheard is a risk that Id hate to undertake. And even you see the sense in having it shipped to the dealer first. Sysweis postings left me with the understanding the she was having it shipped directly to her home where it would be prepped and tuned for her. However if my impression was mistaken my humble apologies, I certainly dont want to start a flame war as Ive seen on this forum and believe me some members on this forum have much sharper tongues than I so again if the impression was mistaken my apologies particularly to syswei.


My two cents -- Mason & Hamlin Model A
#24042 - 10/21/05 12:12 AM Re: on the verge of buying a Perzina 51" sight-unseen  
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Eins Offline
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ntman2,
No offense taken and no apology necessary. I just thought it sounded like you know something that we don't, so absolute was your claim. Like I expressed too, I would prefer to have the piano taken care of at the dealership to my satisfaction before I have it shipped.

During my search, I played six Perzina uprights at two dealers, and none of them displayed any significant variance in sound or touch. This may sound rare, but that is how I experienced it.


One of the funny things about the stock market is that every time one person buys, another sells, and both think they are astute.
-William Feather
#24043 - 10/21/05 03:52 AM Re: on the verge of buying a Perzina 51" sight-unseen  
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Chris H. Offline
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UK.
I recently bought a steinway upright through an internet auction without trying it first. It was a spur of the moment decision as the price was absurdly cheap. Lucky for me the piano is in good condition and is worth more than I payed for it but..... the sound is a bit too mellow for my liking and it's not a patch on my Shimmel upright. I came out of this one ok and could sell if I wanted but will probably keep it as I always wanted to own a Steinway and it looks beautifull. I don't think I would do it again though!


Pianist and piano teacher.
#24044 - 10/21/05 08:45 AM Re: on the verge of buying a Perzina 51" sight-unseen  
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cmantelope Offline
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sacramento ca
Hi Syswei!

Here is my Perzina experience, for what it's worth. I was out shopping for a Kawai, at my local Kawai dealer. He also sells new Perzina's. I do not know the model number, but I played a 51" black Perzina. The dealer pointed it out, as an alternative to the Kawai K-50. It was significantly cheaper. I wanted to like it, of course. However, this particular Perzina "squeeked" on almost every key! Definately not the pedal, but the actual keys squeeked. They felt spongy too. The dealer seemed surprised, and said he truly didn't notice it. I did.

I went back a few weeks later to play some more, and tried that Perzina again....still had the squeeking. Could be just that one Perzina, but unfortunately, it is the sum total of my Perzina experience. Liked the bass sound, and as I recall the "feel" of the action was satsifactory, except for the spongy squeeking!

Sorry to post something that may pop your baloon...but I think it's good advice when they say to try every piano before buying.

Hope that helps,
CM

#24045 - 10/21/05 09:12 AM Re: on the verge of buying a Perzina 51" sight-unseen  
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syswei Offline
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The arrangement is this: The distributor in CA will ship to the dealer in NY, who will prep the piano, and then I can go to the showroom and check it out. The verbal agreement I have with the dealer is that if there is a significant problem, I can back out and get my money refunded. If I have a more subtle issue with the piano I am out of luck. But since I got a competitive price, I think that if this happened I could offer to have him try to sell if from his showroom floor to someone else (remember, it will be his only Perzina, so to him it would be like me financing his floor model for free...a good deal for him, I think) and only if that failed would I end up taking a piano I didn't like.

The reviews from people here including Eins and George K have been favorable enough, and the price point low enough, that I am willing to take the chance.

Also I made clear to both the distributor and the dealer that I was buying largely on the strength of the comments on this forum. I think they understand that my happiness/unhappiness is going to be expressed on this forum, which potentially could help or hurt their businesses. The dealer wondered out loud if I could potentially recommend him to people in CT (he is a little over 1 hour away in NY) and I said something like "if I like the piano and the prep I will recommend both Perzina and your dealership on the piano forum".

#24046 - 10/21/05 09:30 AM Re: on the verge of buying a Perzina 51" sight-unseen  
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George K Offline
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George K  Offline
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The Midwest
Quote
Originally posted by syswei:
he arrangement is this: The verbal agreement I have with the dealer is that if there is a significant problem, I can back out and get my money refunded. If I have a more subtle issue with the piano I am out of luck. The reviews from people here including Eins and George K have been favorable enough, and the price point low enough, that I am willing to take the chance.
First of all, remember, a verbal contract isn't worth the paper it's printed on.

That aside, bear in mind that I played only ONE Perzina upright for a short period of time. I didn't look for details, as if I were buying. I listened for tone - and I liked it. It boomed and roared, and was easy to play. I spent only about 10 minutes with it. Please don't take my impressions as gospel. As I posted elsewhere, the grand that I played needed tweaking, but it had a rich full sound. I could be happy with it.

Eins is the person who owns one, and I understand that he's happy with it, especially considering price.

Let us know how it all works out. I'm really REALLY curious.


George


[Linked Image]
#24047 - 10/21/05 09:43 AM Re: on the verge of buying a Perzina 51" sight-unseen  
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apple* Offline
apple*  Offline


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Kansas
Quote
Originally posted by syswei:
Also I made clear to both the distributor and the dealer that I was buying largely on the strength of the comments on this forum. I think they understand that my happiness/unhappiness is going to be expressed on this forum, which potentially could help or hurt their businesses.
syswei - first of all know that i ordered my piano sight unplayed.. I am foolish and headstrong and very happy with my purchase.

Also know that this forum here is made of dealer hawking their wares as well as consumers, techs and the piano loving public. I am a pretty avid reader of the forum and have noticed that most of the Perzina chatter is sales' points. I don't know that a recommendation by those who might not have the consumers best interest in mind is the way to go..

(A win win situation for you if you are praising the Perzina for profit.. "i love my piano - it's perfect", is maybe the next scenario....)

i wish you luck if you are a consumer and athlete's foot if you are a dealer pretending.


accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)
#24048 - 10/21/05 09:43 AM Re: on the verge of buying a Perzina 51" sight-unseen  
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apple* Offline
apple*  Offline


Joined: Jan 2003
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Kansas
Quote
Originally posted by syswei:
Also I made clear to both the distributor and the dealer that I was buying largely on the strength of the comments on this forum. I think they understand that my happiness/unhappiness is going to be expressed on this forum, which potentially could help or hurt their businesses.
syswei - first of all know that i ordered my piano sight unplayed.. I am foolish and headstrong and very happy with my purchase.

Also know that this forum here is made of dealer hawking their wares as well as consumers, techs and the piano loving public. I am a pretty avid reader of the forum and have noticed that most of the Perzina chatter is sales' points. I don't know that a recommendation by those who might not have the consumers best interest in mind is the way to go..

(A win win situation for you if you are praising the Perzina for profit.. "i love my piano - it's perfect", is maybe the next scenario....)

i wish you luck if you are a consumer and athlete's foot if you are a dealer pretending.


accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)
#24049 - 10/21/05 10:09 AM Re: on the verge of buying a Perzina 51" sight-unseen  
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syswei Offline
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"I am a pretty avid reader of the forum and have noticed that most of the Perzina chatter is sales' points."

I am not sure I agree. I think the most prolific poster is Eins and it should be clear from the pictures he has posted that he has a Perzina in his home. I have also emailed him offline, and spoken with the dealer he bought from, and I can say with some certainty that he isn't a pretender.

Other comments have been briefer...for instance George K's above and the original here http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/1/11889.html#000000

his and also some others also appeared to me to be legitimate.

I am a little surprised that people think I could be a dealer. Once I get the piano, assuming that I like it, I will post a pic of it and it will be clear that it is in a home setting....just to prove you doubters wrong.

#24050 - 10/21/05 10:16 AM Re: on the verge of buying a Perzina 51" sight-unseen  
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apple* Offline
apple*  Offline


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Kansas
i apologize of course... no malice intended and wish for the best possible outcome only.


accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)
#24051 - 10/21/05 10:23 AM Re: on the verge of buying a Perzina 51" sight-unseen  
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yellowville Offline
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Ithaca, NY
I bought my house sight unseen. Crazy, I know, but sometimes that's what you have to do.

It turned out to be one of the smartest things I ever did. But when you do this sort of thing you have to have a backup plan -- I knew I could get out of the deal if I had to, or at the very worst live in a house I didn't like for a few years.

If you can return the piano... you're more or less covered.

I live in an area far from any piano dealers, and always have two little kids in tow. I may well have to order a piano sight unseen too. I've been shopping for a piano for a few months now, and so far have been able to get my hands on: two Steinway grands (out of budget), a Story and Clark console, and a Hallet and Davis studio. That's it!!


That man is richest whose pleasures are the cheapest. - H. D. Thoreau
#24052 - 10/22/05 01:13 AM Re: on the verge of buying a Perzina 51" sight-unseen  
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Eins Offline
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Utah
Quote
Originally posted by Chris H.:
it's not a patch on my Shimmel upright.
I hope this doesn't come across as a flame, but you mean to say you own a "Shimmel" and don't even know how to spell it?


One of the funny things about the stock market is that every time one person buys, another sells, and both think they are astute.
-William Feather
#24053 - 10/22/05 01:31 AM Re: on the verge of buying a Perzina 51" sight-unseen  
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Eins Offline
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Back on topic--I remember my odyssey searching for MY PIANO, and when I had found it in a, GULP!, Chinese piano, it took me a while to get over it and just accept that I liked the darned thing, no matter where it was built.

Somebody mentioned squeaks. I had them too. When the tuner came to do his in-home tuning, he sprayed some magic (not WD-40!) mist where it needed to be sprayed, and the squeaks were gone. Haven't appeared back yet.

In a few days, I'll have Rick Clark get down to it and work on a few buzzes that bug me, and when he's done, it will sound and play as good as any Fazioli upright, if they only dared to build one.

BTW, I am not, in any way, connected to Perzina or the piano industry. I sell Audis and I am passionate about them. Four rings rule!


One of the funny things about the stock market is that every time one person buys, another sells, and both think they are astute.
-William Feather
#24054 - 10/22/05 03:19 AM Re: on the verge of buying a Perzina 51" sight-unseen  
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velopresto Offline
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Santa Clara, CA
Somebody mentioned squeaks. I had them too. When the tuner came to do his in-home tuning, he sprayed some magic (not WD-40!) mist where it needed to be sprayed, and the squeaks were gone. Haven't appeared back yet.

In a few days, I'll have Rick Clark get down to it and work on a few buzzes that bug me, and when he's done, it will sound and play as good as any Fazioli upright, if they only dared to build one.

Eins,

Keep us posted on the squeak/buzz removal program and specifically, how long the noises stay away.


Dave Stahl
Dave Stahl Piano Service
Santa Clara, CA
Serving most of the greater SF Bay Area
http://dstahlpiano.net
#24055 - 10/22/05 03:22 AM Re: on the verge of buying a Perzina 51" sight-unseen  
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 605
velopresto Offline
500 Post Club Member
velopresto  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 605
Santa Clara, CA
400 posts, and you'd think I'd have mastered the format here....I thought I was quoting Eins, and it just came out as regular text!

Back to school for me.


Dave Stahl
Dave Stahl Piano Service
Santa Clara, CA
Serving most of the greater SF Bay Area
http://dstahlpiano.net
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