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Finale PrintMusic #2396822
03/11/15 02:34 PM
03/11/15 02:34 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,462
Western Canada
Diane... Offline OP
3000 Post Club Member
Diane...  Offline OP
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,462
Western Canada
Help!!!



Okay, so I have been away (I apologize for coming here after not participating for so long, but) have to take more piano lessons myself, so...it's because I found the most amazing "Jazz" teacher who expects me to practice! hahahaha What a difference a jazz teacher makes!!! Have taught jazz to students for years, but always with the music written out in front of me. Always felt that if the music is there, I can refer back to the music if I forget! So. . . back to my question.

This jazz teacher has a respect my ability to play anything if the sheet music is in front of me, but then I have a total respect for "him" because he can play anything on the fly and perfectly with a band and ... with no practice required. Just give him the chords, 13th chords and all, and he can perform like magic!! He just plays such complicated patterns and gets more and more into the drama of the piece as he goes along! Timing perfect! I'm using a jazz book called, Essential Elements Jazz Play along, Jazz Standards! Has a CD with 2 choices, 1. "All performance" and 2. rhythm section (Hal Leonard) Incredible book actually. This guy can play along with the CD and follow the chords in the book. (& with no practice) Just on the spot. To me, he BLOWS my mind!

Anyways, I play by note, he plays by reading chords (& by ear) So. .

Back to my original question. I bought this computer program called "FINALE - Print Music" ... I want to set it up on my computer so I can have anything that is played on a keyboard (connected to the computer) then printed out.

Does anyone here know how I get started doing this? Has anyone used this program, and printed out music they played on their keyboard? I show this youtube video so that you can see how the song could be played like this then have note for note exactly as played printed out!

I can't play on the fly! I will never be able to play like him. I was trained "differently"! Unfortunate, yes, but I have spent the last year 'trying" to play without music! But I CAN'T! Those 13th chords don't appear magically like they do for those experience "jazz professionals" ... I wish! Anyways, I want to use the FINALE print music and nothing else. I know there are other programs, but this is the one I bought! $95 Anyone with any experience with this computer program and how does the music look when printed out?

When I get this program up and running, I will get him to play the jazz songs I adore and then "poof" "voila" ! Like magic!

Technology is wonderful! But I'm just at the beginning stage of getting this to work! Thanks in advance for any ones help!

And, I should add that the channel I featured above is channel ... Lot2learn (on youtube)


Last edited by Diane...; 03/11/15 02:46 PM.

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Diane
Jazz/Blues/Rock/Boogie Piano Teacher
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Re: Finale PrintMusic [Re: Diane...] #2396865
03/11/15 05:11 PM
03/11/15 05:11 PM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 545
Germany
MRC Offline
500 Post Club Member
MRC  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 545
Germany
Originally Posted by Diane...
Back to my original question. I bought this computer program called "FINALE - Print Music" ... I want to set it up on my computer so I can have anything that is played on a keyboard (connected to the computer) then printed out.


You may be expecting too much. Transcribing a live performance into notation so that another pianist reading the score could give a convincing approximation of the original performance is a particular skill that takes a lot of training. There are musicians who are very good at this, but I have yet to see a computer program that comes close.

I have the full version of Finale, which is a wonderful program for creating professional-quailty engraved scores when the music is entered note by note or chord by chord, with you telling the program exactly what rhythm to notate. When you ask it to transcribe a live performance, it's a different story.

Here's how real time transcribing works in Finale/PrintMusic. You use the Hyperscribe tool. Either you play to a metronome click, or you provide the beat yourself by tapping a foot pedal.

First, you can tell the program to split the music into two staves, in which case you'll need to specify at which note the split occurs: notes on or above this pitch are given to the right hand, notes below to the left hand. This cannot take into account the sort of passage where both hands play in a high register, or both hands play in a low register. This isn't too much of a problem: you can redistribute the notes later on. The real problems start when you've played through the piece and Finale shows you what it thinks you just played.

You will most likely see all sorts of rhythms that don't look at all like what you played. You can play around with the Quantisation settings and Finale will give you a different version, but unless you played simple rhythms in a very mechanical fashion, you probably won't get a satisfactory result. The notes should all be there; it's the rhythms that pose problems. Depending on the complexity of what is played in, it may be possible to correct the rhythms without too much sweat and tears.

My recommendation: first learn to enter music note for note with a MIDI keyboard and the Simple Entry tool. When you are reasonably proficient in entering and editing music in this fashion, try doing a Hyperscribe recording of something very simple and see if you can edit it to produce a clean transcription of what you played.







Steinway A grand (1919), Richard Lipp grand (1913), Yamaha P2 upright (1983), Casio PX-150 digital (2013)
Re: Finale PrintMusic [Re: Diane...] #2396904
03/11/15 07:31 PM
03/11/15 07:31 PM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 163
California
G
gracegren Offline
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gracegren  Offline
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G

Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 163
California
PrintMusic is a great program. I have used it even to write out a big band chart, as well as lead sheets for jazz, but I agree with the above post that you might be disappointed in your plan. There are many books out there that have some nice jazz piano arrangements. If you want to go that route, I suggest doing a search, possibly on Amazon, which has a lot of samples of jazz books.

If you want to learn to enter notes on PrintMusic, you might want to try writing out a solo. No, that's not how jazz players generally play, but it is a great exercise in learning soloing.

You may think you cannot play "on the fly", but the reason your teacher seems to be able to put together effortless nice-sounding solos is because he has an understanding of how chords are constructed and basic scales. If you ask, I am sure he would tell you it was neither effortless nor magic learning all of this. It is hard work, but totally worth it, as being able to play off of lead sheets is the heart of jazz. You already know scales. You know the notes of a C major chord already. It is not rocket science, its just a different way of thinking about music. It is enough to just understand chord construction and how to apply it, then get working on comping with your left hand. This is jazz, and this means you can get together with other people and play jazz anywhere, with anyone who knows the basics. Just my opinion that I think it would be better to spend your time on these ideas than trying to extract jazz tunes into a music notation program.

Last edited by gracegren; 03/11/15 07:35 PM.

Kawaii ES-110, Kurzweil MPS-20
Jazz, blues, Latin, and a touch of classical and new age.
Re: Finale PrintMusic [Re: Diane...] #2397222
03/12/15 02:52 PM
03/12/15 02:52 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,462
Western Canada
Diane... Offline OP
3000 Post Club Member
Diane...  Offline OP
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,462
Western Canada
Wow! When I asked for help I certainly came to the right place! Thank you MRC & gracegren! You both certain know your stuff!

I just thought when I went to the lesson I could have my Jazz teacher play the piece, then . . . I could just go home, hook up the computer to the Finale Printmusic program and . . . voila. There's the entire piece written out note for note and I would learn it, go back to the lesson and wow him! hahahahaha

Okay, so wowing is over rated I'm thinking now that I read both your posts! I think I just have to stuff my "pride" and realize I think I need to learn this Jazz improvisation the right way. Which as one of you already stated. Do the HARD WORK! I have what I have been looking for and that's someone who knows what that hard work requires.

Off to JAZZ Kindergarten for me then! I think I need to learn what Jazz playing demands, and that's chords, without music!

And because I already have the FINALE Printmusic, I will give it a go! Can't hurt to set it up. Then I will see what you both are saying! I bought the program anyways, so will just get brave and try it anyways.

For years I have played what others interpreted! Time for me to fly this airplane solo and learn the right way.

Thank you both for helping me! Just knew I would get the answers I was looking for. Not that I liked it :), but I got the facts and I admit, I was looking for the EASY way out!

Anyways, Thank you both! . . . The hardest part was finding a pro Jazz teacher, now the fun begins! Or is it, ... the hard WORK begins! hahahahaha

Again, Thank you both so very much!!!!


Last edited by Diane...; 03/12/15 02:54 PM.

http://www.pianoworld.com/Uploads/files/goldsparkledress.jpg
Diane
Jazz/Blues/Rock/Boogie Piano Teacher
[Linked Image]
Re: Finale PrintMusic [Re: Diane...] #2397226
03/12/15 03:18 PM
03/12/15 03:18 PM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 545
Germany
MRC Offline
500 Post Club Member
MRC  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 545
Germany
I remember seeing an interview with André Previn where he said that as a young pianist he spent hours transcribing some complex jazz impros from a recording. That's a great discipline. When you're familiar with note input in PrintMusic, why not try it? Just record your teacher playing something and see if you can make your own transcription: you'll learn an awful lot just through the effort.


Steinway A grand (1919), Richard Lipp grand (1913), Yamaha P2 upright (1983), Casio PX-150 digital (2013)
Re: Finale PrintMusic [Re: Diane...] #2397233
03/12/15 03:49 PM
03/12/15 03:49 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,462
Western Canada
Diane... Offline OP
3000 Post Club Member
Diane...  Offline OP
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,462
Western Canada
I have been looking over jazz sheet music and penciling in when a 7th, 10th, and a 13th shows up. My teacher tells me that you "must" put the whole chord structure in (7th,+9, aug, etc, in or it won't have the sound that's required.

For example; a C7+9 is
LH; 1 5
RH; 3b7+9

And for C13
LH; 1 8
RH; b7 10 13

& it's those tri-tones that I'm not familiar with but sound so good!

Then change to a different chord and KNOW where to go from there?

This is going to take some time. Practice!
As I already said,I have looked over jazz music just to study why and how changes occur, and penciled in the b7 10 13 etc ... and then I try to interpret it myself, and the sound sucks! Then I go to my teacher, and he changes the order and it sound amazing!

What wows me is when a brilliant sounds happens and then changes (bridge) to enhance that sound with the next chord change and all done without hesitation, it's those hand changes that are automatic is where I get wowed!

The sounds are exciting. When created right. Just that I have got the chord notes right, but then I discover a different inversion sounds so much better!

So do jazz pros ever play their interpretations the same way twice?

Last edited by Diane...; 03/12/15 04:39 PM.

http://www.pianoworld.com/Uploads/files/goldsparkledress.jpg
Diane
Jazz/Blues/Rock/Boogie Piano Teacher
[Linked Image]
Re: Finale PrintMusic [Re: Diane...] #2397300
03/12/15 07:29 PM
03/12/15 07:29 PM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 163
California
G
gracegren Offline
Full Member
gracegren  Offline
Full Member
G

Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 163
California
Well, Diane, I may know my stuff, more or less, on jazz bass, but learning jazz piano has been my focus for the last few months. I have much to learn. I just hope, for your sake, that you have a solid grounding in voicing/comping ii-V7-I and are able to play this about seamlessly in all keys, easily modulating around the circle of 5ths, and really hear it, before tacking those 9th and 13th voicings. So much of jazz involves ii-V7-I progressions.


Kawaii ES-110, Kurzweil MPS-20
Jazz, blues, Latin, and a touch of classical and new age.
Re: Finale PrintMusic [Re: gracegren] #2397522
03/13/15 11:16 AM
03/13/15 11:16 AM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,462
Western Canada
Diane... Offline OP
3000 Post Club Member
Diane...  Offline OP
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,462
Western Canada
Originally Posted by gracegren
I just hope, for your sake, that you have a solid grounding in voicing/comping ii-V7-I and are able to play this about seamlessly in all keys, easily modulating around the circle of 5ths, and really hear it, before tacking those 9th and 13th voicings. So much of jazz involves ii-V7-I progressions.


[Linked Image]

No worries there. I have played in bands, so having that experience has helped a lot. Just that I have always been envious of those who can add that jazzy sound in their playing! So I think because I have a piano that can go the distance, the time is now to take it for a good long ride.

This was the "push" I needed to realize that learning never stops! Lot2learn! Now isn't that the truth! hahahaha




http://www.pianoworld.com/Uploads/files/goldsparkledress.jpg
Diane
Jazz/Blues/Rock/Boogie Piano Teacher
[Linked Image]
Re: Finale PrintMusic [Re: Diane...] #2397592
03/13/15 02:29 PM
03/13/15 02:29 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,014
Chicago
J
jjo Offline
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jjo  Offline
1000 Post Club Member
J

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,014
Chicago
Diane: Minor point, but I don't think many refer to the 10th; it's just the 3rd. Indeed, the 3rd and the 7th are the key notes because they determine the quality of the chord. The bass player covers the root (if playing solo, you do), and the piano player covers the 3, the 7 and any extensions that are appropriate.


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