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The "Secret" to Glen Gould's Awesome Technique? #2379898 01/30/15 05:06 AM
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Paul678 Offline OP
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Besides being gifted on a motor/physical level? And besides
his early training and hard work?

On another thread, it was mentioned he was taught to
not lose contact with the keys, with his fingers.

I was once taught that for fastest trilling, you should
not unnecessarily lift your fingers off from the keys, so
this would support the same idea.


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Re: The "Secret" to Glen Gould's Awesome Technique? [Re: Paul678] #2379902 01/30/15 05:17 AM
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Be an organist.

Re: The "Secret" to Glen Gould's Awesome Technique? [Re: Paul678] #2379941 01/30/15 09:07 AM
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How can one possibly not lose contact with the keys when playing??
A trill is a very specific technical problem where not losing contact seems correct.

Re: The "Secret" to Glen Gould's Awesome Technique? [Re: Paul678] #2379960 01/30/15 09:49 AM
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I think the not losing contact with the keys is a point of sensation over reality. Of course you break contact with the keys at times, otherwise you wouldn't be able to move around on the keyboard, but the sensation should be that you're at one with the key. It's more that you should aim to be touching the key before you play it, which isn't always possible either.

Glenn Gould's exemplary technique? Well, personally, I think it's more to do with his outstanding brain. He really thought about what he was playing, broke it down so that he knew it almost anatomically, before setting out to perform it.

He also practised very slowly and methodically.

He was obviously gifted with a high-speed brain and worked very hard to keep it working through his life.

Some people don't like Glenn Gould, they find his playing too idiosyncratic, but that in itself is not a comment on his ability or genius.

Re: The "Secret" to Glen Gould's Awesome Technique? [Re: Paul678] #2380058 01/30/15 02:58 PM
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Glenn Gould couldn't express everything through his voice, so his fingers had to take over. That's the secret to his technique ... that is his technique.

Re: The "Secret" to Glen Gould's Awesome Technique? [Re: Paul678] #2380074 01/30/15 03:24 PM
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Here is an interesting article on the subject: http://www.handoc.com/documents/gould_tubiana20001.pdf

I would caution anyone from attempting to emulate his technique. He was plagued by medical and physical problems.


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Re: The "Secret" to Glen Gould's Awesome Technique? [Re: Paul678] #2380098 01/30/15 05:08 PM
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In addition to the above, he had his piano tweaked to give it a more harpsichord-like sound.


Best regards,

Deborah
Re: The "Secret" to Glen Gould's Awesome Technique? [Re: Paul678] #2380121 01/30/15 06:05 PM
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He did plenty of tweaking himself. It drove the techs mad. There are recordings with double notes (rebounding) where he obviously went a tweak too far!

Re: The "Secret" to Glen Gould's Awesome Technique? [Re: Paul678] #2380162 01/30/15 08:06 PM
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The digital clarity of Gould's technique is not that hard to achieve if that is all one is aiming for. Keep fingers close to keys, mostly detaché with emphasis on evenness of sound/dynamics/touch, and play on a piano with quick light action and bright thin tone.

Gould did not produce a beautiful sound - something pianists from Anton Rubinstein to Van Cliburn were preoccupied with - but employed a thin and dry sound. That eliminated a tremendous amount of technical-artistic work that other pianists undergo to develop a kaleidoscope of timbres, sonorities, projections, and coloristic pedal effects. Gould's elimination of those many techniques 'liberated' him to cultivate a comparatively narrow and one-dimensional technique.

Gould was emotionally incapable of engaging the vast Romantic repertoire extending from Beethoven through Rachmaninoff with only rare and unsatisfactory exceptions, and was evidently unable to sustain the psychic stress that the emotionally convulsive Romantics necessitate. Although he recorded the complete Mozart sonatas he publicly stated his distaste for Mozart - even that was too much for him. This emotional detachment and withdrawal defined his technique and repertoire choices.

Gould's reputation rests on his Bach playing, all of it technically brilliant, but often shallow and heavily mannered. But Gould was always capable of surprises, if not profundity.

Whether or not Gould was a case of Asperger's syndrome is debatable (a case could be made) but he withdrew from public performing (still more detachment) became increasingly paranoid and medicated himself to death at the early age of fifty.

Re: The "Secret" to Glen Gould's Awesome Technique? [Re: chopin_r_us] #2380203 01/30/15 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by chopin_r_us
There are recordings with double notes (rebounding) where he obviously went a tweak too far!


He screwed up the back checks. Everybody does the first time they mess with back checks. They're one of the most difficult things to do right in regulation.



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Re: The "Secret" to Glen Gould's Awesome Technique? [Re: JohnSprung] #2380296 01/31/15 04:04 AM
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Originally Posted by JohnSprung
Originally Posted by chopin_r_us
There are recordings with double notes (rebounding) where he obviously went a tweak too far!


He screwed up the back checks. Everybody does the first time they mess with back checks. They're one of the most difficult things to do right in regulation.

According to Hafner it was brought about by 'Gould's demand for hair-trigger action and lightning-fast repetition.'

Re: The "Secret" to Glen Gould's Awesome Technique? [Re: Jonathan Baker] #2380312 01/31/15 06:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Jonathan Baker
The digital clarity of Gould's technique is not that hard to achieve if that is all one is aiming for. Keep fingers close to keys, mostly detaché with emphasis on evenness of sound/dynamics/touch, and play on a piano with quick light action and bright thin tone.

Gould did not produce a beautiful sound - something pianists from Anton Rubinstein to Van Cliburn were preoccupied with - but employed a thin and dry sound. That eliminated a tremendous amount of technical-artistic work that other pianists undergo to develop a kaleidoscope of timbres, sonorities, projections, and coloristic pedal effects. Gould's elimination of those many techniques 'liberated' him to cultivate a comparatively narrow and one-dimensional technique.

Gould was emotionally incapable of engaging the vast Romantic repertoire extending from Beethoven through Rachmaninoff with only rare and unsatisfactory exceptions, and was evidently unable to sustain the psychic stress that the emotionally convulsive Romantics necessitate. Although he recorded the complete Mozart sonatas he publicly stated his distaste for Mozart - even that was too much for him. This emotional detachment and withdrawal defined his technique and repertoire choices.

Gould's reputation rests on his Bach playing, all of it technically brilliant, but often shallow and heavily mannered. But Gould was always capable of surprises, if not profundity.

Whether or not Gould was a case of Asperger's syndrome is debatable (a case could be made) but he withdrew from public performing (still more detachment) became increasingly paranoid and medicated himself to death at the early age of fifty.



Is there proof that his stroke was caused by his
self-medications?

IIRC, his mother died of a stroke too, so it ran in
the family.

Re: The "Secret" to Glen Gould's Awesome Technique? [Re: Paul678] #2380335 01/31/15 08:38 AM
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Your man had several doctors all prescribing medications without any knowledge of each other.

Re: The "Secret" to Glen Gould's Awesome Technique? [Re: Jonathan Baker] #2380425 01/31/15 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Jonathan Baker
The digital clarity of Gould's technique is not that hard to achieve if that is all one is aiming for. Keep fingers close to keys, mostly detaché with emphasis on evenness of sound/dynamics/touch, and play on a piano with quick light action and bright thin tone.

Gould did not produce a beautiful sound - something pianists from Anton Rubinstein to Van Cliburn were preoccupied with - but employed a thin and dry sound. That eliminated a tremendous amount of technical-artistic work that other pianists undergo to develop a kaleidoscope of timbres, sonorities, projections, and coloristic pedal effects. Gould's elimination of those many techniques 'liberated' him to cultivate a comparatively narrow and one-dimensional technique.

Gould was emotionally incapable of engaging the vast Romantic repertoire extending from Beethoven through Rachmaninoff with only rare and unsatisfactory exceptions, and was evidently unable to sustain the psychic stress that the emotionally convulsive Romantics necessitate. Although he recorded the complete Mozart sonatas he publicly stated his distaste for Mozart - even that was too much for him. This emotional detachment and withdrawal defined his technique and repertoire choices.

Gould's reputation rests on his Bach playing, all of it technically brilliant, but often shallow and heavily mannered. But Gould was always capable of surprises, if not profundity.

Whether or not Gould was a case of Asperger's syndrome is debatable (a case could be made) but he withdrew from public performing (still more detachment) became increasingly paranoid and medicated himself to death at the early age of fifty.


Congratulations, you have regurgitated the stereotypical anti-Gould arguments very well.

"Gould did not produce a beautiful sound."

Excuse me? Are you here to dictate your narrow and romantically biased subjective view of aural aesthetics to everyone else?

"Comparatively narrow and one-dimensional technique."

There are more dimensions in Gould's Bach alone than most modern pianists of romantic repertory ever manage.

"Emotionally incapable of engaging the vast Romantic repertoire extending from Beethoven through Rachmaninoff with only rare and unsatisfactory exceptions."

Have you heard his Brahms, by chance?

"This emotional detachment and withdrawal defined his technique and repertoire choices. "

Or maybe he was just one of the few pianists brave enough to confront repertory that troubled him, in order to find out why? When most pianists just ignore what they "don't like" without questioning it further? Have you read his essays, by chance?

"But Gould was always capable of surprises, if not profundity."

I have listened to Gould for twenty years and discovery something new every time. If that isn't profundity, what is?

Strip away your snobby and pedantic tone, and all that's left is a bunch of nonsense.






Re: The "Secret" to Glen Gould's Awesome Technique? [Re: Paul678] #2380436 01/31/15 01:08 PM
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I do not take seriously those who criticize Gould.

Re: The "Secret" to Glen Gould's Awesome Technique? [Re: chopin_r_us] #2380448 01/31/15 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by chopin_r_us
Your man had several doctors all prescribing medications without any knowledge of each other.


That's true, but it doesn't mean he wouldn't have had the
stroke without the medications.

Strokes ran in his family, so it might have happened anyways.

Re: The "Secret" to Glen Gould's Awesome Technique? [Re: bjorn of brekkukot] #2380452 01/31/15 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by bjorn of brekkukot
Originally Posted by Jonathan Baker
The digital clarity of Gould's technique is not that hard to achieve if that is all one is aiming for. Keep fingers close to keys, mostly detaché with emphasis on evenness of sound/dynamics/touch, and play on a piano with quick light action and bright thin tone.

Gould did not produce a beautiful sound - something pianists from Anton Rubinstein to Van Cliburn were preoccupied with - but employed a thin and dry sound. That eliminated a tremendous amount of technical-artistic work that other pianists undergo to develop a kaleidoscope of timbres, sonorities, projections, and coloristic pedal effects. Gould's elimination of those many techniques 'liberated' him to cultivate a comparatively narrow and one-dimensional technique.

Gould was emotionally incapable of engaging the vast Romantic repertoire extending from Beethoven through Rachmaninoff with only rare and unsatisfactory exceptions, and was evidently unable to sustain the psychic stress that the emotionally convulsive Romantics necessitate. Although he recorded the complete Mozart sonatas he publicly stated his distaste for Mozart - even that was too much for him. This emotional detachment and withdrawal defined his technique and repertoire choices.

Gould's reputation rests on his Bach playing, all of it technically brilliant, but often shallow and heavily mannered. But Gould was always capable of surprises, if not profundity.

Whether or not Gould was a case of Asperger's syndrome is debatable (a case could be made) but he withdrew from public performing (still more detachment) became increasingly paranoid and medicated himself to death at the early age of fifty.


Congratulations, you have regurgitated the stereotypical anti-Gould arguments very well.

"Gould did not produce a beautiful sound."

Excuse me? Are you here to dictate your narrow and romantically biased subjective view of aural aesthetics to everyone else?

"Comparatively narrow and one-dimensional technique."

There are more dimensions in Gould's Bach alone than most modern pianists of romantic repertory ever manage.

"Emotionally incapable of engaging the vast Romantic repertoire extending from Beethoven through Rachmaninoff with only rare and unsatisfactory exceptions."

Have you heard his Brahms, by chance?

"This emotional detachment and withdrawal defined his technique and repertoire choices. "

Or maybe he was just one of the few pianists brave enough to confront repertory that troubled him, in order to find out why? When most pianists just ignore what they "don't like" without questioning it further? Have you read his essays, by chance?

"But Gould was always capable of surprises, if not profundity."

I have listened to Gould for twenty years and discovery something new every time. If that isn't profundity, what is?

Strip away your snobby and pedantic tone, and all that's left is a bunch of nonsense.



+1

If you notice on Johnathan Baker's website, there are
absolutely NO samples of his playing!

Probably because he himself doesn't know how to play 1/1000
of the accuracy of Gould!


Re: The "Secret" to Glen Gould's Awesome Technique? [Re: Paul678] #2380453 01/31/15 01:28 PM
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Gould's often extreme tempo choices certainly leave him open to criticism. In my experience, opinions of Gould by highly knowledgeable musicians vary greatly with quite a few on the negative side.

Re: The "Secret" to Glen Gould's Awesome Technique? [Re: bjorn of brekkukot] #2380454 01/31/15 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by bjorn of brekkukot
Originally Posted by Jonathan Baker
The digital clarity of Gould's technique is not that hard to achieve if that is all one is aiming for. Keep fingers close to keys, mostly detaché with emphasis on evenness of sound/dynamics/touch, and play on a piano with quick light action and bright thin tone.

Gould did not produce a beautiful sound - something pianists from Anton Rubinstein to Van Cliburn were preoccupied with - but employed a thin and dry sound. That eliminated a tremendous amount of technical-artistic work that other pianists undergo to develop a kaleidoscope of timbres, sonorities, projections, and coloristic pedal effects. Gould's elimination of those many techniques 'liberated' him to cultivate a comparatively narrow and one-dimensional technique.

Gould was emotionally incapable of engaging the vast Romantic repertoire extending from Beethoven through Rachmaninoff with only rare and unsatisfactory exceptions, and was evidently unable to sustain the psychic stress that the emotionally convulsive Romantics necessitate. Although he recorded the complete Mozart sonatas he publicly stated his distaste for Mozart - even that was too much for him. This emotional detachment and withdrawal defined his technique and repertoire choices.

Gould's reputation rests on his Bach playing, all of it technically brilliant, but often shallow and heavily mannered. But Gould was always capable of surprises, if not profundity.

Whether or not Gould was a case of Asperger's syndrome is debatable (a case could be made) but he withdrew from public performing (still more detachment) became increasingly paranoid and medicated himself to death at the early age of fifty.


Congratulations, you have regurgitated the stereotypical anti-Gould arguments very well.

"Gould did not produce a beautiful sound."

Excuse me? Are you here to dictate your narrow and romantically biased subjective view of aural aesthetics to everyone else?

"Comparatively narrow and one-dimensional technique."

There are more dimensions in Gould's Bach alone than most modern pianists of romantic repertory ever manage.

"Emotionally incapable of engaging the vast Romantic repertoire extending from Beethoven through Rachmaninoff with only rare and unsatisfactory exceptions."

Have you heard his Brahms, by chance?

"This emotional detachment and withdrawal defined his technique and repertoire choices. "

Or maybe he was just one of the few pianists brave enough to confront repertory that troubled him, in order to find out why? When most pianists just ignore what they "don't like" without questioning it further? Have you read his essays, by chance?

"But Gould was always capable of surprises, if not profundity."

I have listened to Gould for twenty years and discovery something new every time. If that isn't profundity, what is?

Strip away your snobby and pedantic tone, and all that's left is a bunch of nonsense.







+1 Thank you for an excellent and thoughtful response to a ridiculous assessment of a great artist.

Re: The "Secret" to Glen Gould's Awesome Technique? [Re: Paul678] #2380455 01/31/15 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Paul678
If you notice on Johnathan Baker's website, there are absolutely NO samples of his playing.Probably because he himself doesn't know how to play 1/1000
of the accuracy of Gould!
This is a pretty nasty post. Just look at his bio and one can see he is highly accomplished.

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