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Tip: Play All your Scales and Exercises Staccato Only!!! #2379079 01/28/15 09:52 AM
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Paul678 Offline OP
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I'm sure you veterans know about this, but...

I've been doing this after watching some Youtube videos,
and the result has been more control over my playing!

This seems to be a variation of what Glen Gould was taught.


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Re: Tip: Play All your Scales and Exercises Staccato Only!!! [Re: Paul678] #2379086 01/28/15 10:04 AM
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dannylux Offline
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I also play them pianissimo staccato.


Mel


"Love has nothing to do with what you are expecting to get, only what you are expecting to give, which is everything. You give because you love and cannot help giving." Katharine Hepburn
Re: Tip: Play All your Scales and Exercises Staccato Only!!! [Re: Paul678] #2379134 01/28/15 11:34 AM
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Or you can just play Beethoven Sonata Op.31-3 second movement (Scherzo) The entire movement (99.9%) is in staccato. It's so hard to play without sounding rush or pushy. In my opinion, most people play this movement way too fast. It should sound relaxing and not like fireworks.

Re: Tip: Play All your Scales and Exercises Staccato Only!!! [Re: Paul678] #2379145 01/28/15 12:06 PM
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doctor S Offline
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In video about Gould, another student of Alberto Guerrero demonstrated how he taught her (and Gould) to play with fingers continuously in contact with the keys, easy when playing legato, harder when playing portato and staccato, always with "no rebound". Other renowned close-to-the-keys pianists were Egon Petri and Earl Wild. And while I can understand that not waving one's fingers high off the keys before and between striking would contribute to better control, high-kicking fingers straight up in the air between notes didn't seem to degrade Horowitz's control much.


"I will hear in Heaven." Beethoven
Re: Tip: Play All your Scales and Exercises Staccato Only!!! [Re: Paul678] #2379194 01/28/15 02:22 PM
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gould's technique is only good for playing Bach


Sorry for my English, I know it sucks, but I'm trying to improve.

Re: Tip: Play All your Scales and Exercises Staccato Only!!! [Re: Batuhan] #2379235 01/28/15 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Batuhan
gould's technique is only good for playing Bach


I don't think that many would agree with you on that. He did play other composers, some very well, although all may not agree with his interpretation of those composers.

Regards,


BruceD
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Re: Tip: Play All your Scales and Exercises Staccato Only!!! [Re: BruceD] #2379239 01/28/15 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by BruceD
Originally Posted by Batuhan
gould's technique is only good for playing Bach

I don't think that many would agree with you on that. He did play other composers, some very well, although all may not agree with his interpretation of those composers.

Say what one will about his Mozart -and people had plenty to say!- it was never the effete porcelain doll sometimes heard from other pianists.


Jason
Re: Tip: Play All your Scales and Exercises Staccato Only!!! [Re: dannylux] #2379262 01/28/15 05:18 PM
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Paul678 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by dannylux
I also play them pianissimo staccato.


Mel


Ahh! That's even harder, and requires even more control!

THANKS!

grin

Re: Tip: Play All your Scales and Exercises Staccato Only!!! [Re: Midlife_Piano] #2379267 01/28/15 05:21 PM
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Paul678 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Midlife_Piano
Or you can just play Beethoven Sonata Op.31-3 second movement (Scherzo) The entire movement (99.9%) is in staccato. It's so hard to play without sounding rush or pushy. In my opinion, most people play this movement way too fast. It should sound relaxing and not like fireworks.



I see what you mean:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLuej1S81ME

Thanks for the tip!

Re: Tip: Play All your Scales and Exercises Staccato Only!!! [Re: Paul678] #2379310 01/28/15 06:35 PM
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You are welcome. Actually I watched that video before you shared the link (I am studying this sonata now). She played even a little too fast for my taste but all other videos were even faster than that. The tempo marking is allegretto, not allegro.

In any case, practicing this movement for staccato is much more fun than just practicing scales, and it's real music (a very good piece too).




Re: Tip: Play All your Scales and Exercises Staccato Only!!! [Re: doctor S] #2379346 01/28/15 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by doctor S
In video about Gould, another student of Alberto Guerrero demonstrated how he taught her (and Gould) to play with fingers continuously in contact with the keys, easy when playing legato, harder when playing portato and staccato, always with "no rebound". Other renowned close-to-the-keys pianists were Egon Petri and Earl Wild. And while I can understand that not waving one's fingers high off the keys before and between striking would contribute to better control, high-kicking fingers straight up in the air between notes didn't seem to degrade Horowitz's control much.


I also don't lift up my fingers while playing scales :)))) we actually play mostly with muscles of fingers that are in the hand, in the palm, so in this case you wouldn't have a need to wave your fingers high off the keys smile
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nVGaqmE9BNE



Re: Tip: Play All your Scales and Exercises Staccato Only!!! [Re: Paul678] #2379416 01/29/15 12:13 AM
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My teacher is constantly recommending I play new material staccato, or really more pizzicato. She's convinced it locks in the accuracy of the notes themselves, while also totally avoiding tension because the finger naturally just rebounds to a relaxed position. She doesn't want me bouncing the wrist, but plucking at the key with a level but flexible wrist.

She's dead right about that. She's been encouraging me to do this for over a year now and I'm only recently taking her seriously and it's working. To play staccato, you naturally put your hand right over the note and go, and it's supported by a nice aligned arm. And then when she takes me back legato, I am way more likely to swing right over the notes in the same efficient way.

Last edited by TwoSnowflakes; 01/29/15 12:14 AM.
Re: Tip: Play All your Scales and Exercises Staccato Only!!! [Re: Paul678] #2379452 01/29/15 02:15 AM
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My teacher has pointed out my bouncy wrist when playing staccato, and has recommended I "take the keys more" (have continuous contact with them while playing).

So naturally this thread is right up my alley. I tried playing my scales pianissimo, staccato and with continuous contact today . . . gave up in frustration.

But I can get an OK, non-bouncy-wrist staccato if I go _very_ slowly, and forego the pianissimo recommendation. Baby steps smile.

Also, doctor_S: Horowitz was an exception to many of the norms! Cziffra, I noticed, also lifted his hands pretty high. And in the classic black-and-white video of Claudio Arrau playing Beethoven's op.111, he lifts his hands very high during the first few minutes of the first movement.

Notorious low-hand people: Gould, Alexeis Weissenberg, Godowsky (so they say). Who else?


Beethoven - Op.49 No.1 (sonata 19)
Czerny - Op.299 Nos. 5,7 (School of Velocity)
Liszt - S.172 No.2 (Consolation No.2)

Dream piece:
Rachmaninoff - Sonata 2, movement 2 in E minor
Re: Tip: Play All your Scales and Exercises Staccato Only!!! [Re: TwoSnowflakes] #2379751 01/29/15 06:20 PM
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Paul678 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by TwoSnowflakes
My teacher is constantly recommending I play new material staccato, or really more pizzicato. She's convinced it locks in the accuracy of the notes themselves, while also totally avoiding tension because the finger naturally just rebounds to a relaxed position. She doesn't want me bouncing the wrist, but plucking at the key with a level but flexible wrist.

She's dead right about that. She's been encouraging me to do this for over a year now and I'm only recently taking her seriously and it's working. To play staccato, you naturally put your hand right over the note and go, and it's supported by a nice aligned arm. And then when she takes me back legato, I am way more likely to swing right over the notes in the same efficient way.


Yes, indeed.

And you will sometimes see people recommending you to
play without the sustain pedal, even on music that asks
for it.

That's a good exercise too, because just like playing staccato,
when you don't depress the sustain pedal, you can no longer "hide"
behind the sustaining tails of the notes, so you are forced to
hear what you are really doing, and you will notice more of your mistakes and timing errors.



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