Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.7 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Find a Professional
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Advertise on Piano World

(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Who's Online Now
60 registered members (Andrew_G, AlphaBravoCharlie, almo82, AZNpiano, apianostudent, akc42, amyram, Animisha, 12 invisible), 5,786 guests, and 6 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 70 of 75 1 2 68 69 70 71 72 74 75
Re: The DPBSD Project! [Re: dewster] #2371916
01/10/15 11:32 AM
01/10/15 11:32 AM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 749
Austria, EU
L
lophiomys Offline
500 Post Club Member
lophiomys  Offline
500 Post Club Member
L

Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 749
Austria, EU
MP7 - 3rd recording

I just discovered in the user manual of the MP7, that there is a setting called "Panel Mode",
which was changed from "Normal" to "Play", which is supposed to play all "functions (inlcuding EFX)" perfectly.
Maybe this makes a difference for the sympathetic resonance in the recording.

Here is the 3. recording (20 MB):
Dropbox Zipped Archive: dpbsd_v2.0-...110-Gain5-MasterVol100-MidiPanel.wav.zip

Sorry that that I have missed a recording glitch in the second recording. It seems that I am getting more and more accustomed to the Kawai sound. wink

Besides:
Which MIDI Editor would enable me to switch easily to a user defined Setup on the MP7, by specifying the specific Program Change values as listed in the appendix of the user manual of the MP7?

Quote

4 SOUND/SETUP Program/Bank
If the Receive Mode MIDI parameter is set to Panel (page 108), the MP7 receives MIDI data on the System Channel
only. To change internal sounds via MIDI, please refer to the Program Change Number List (page 140).
* Note: If the MP7 receives the Program Number from 1 to 128 and Bank number MSB 0 or 1 in the System Channel, the MP7 will switch to SETUP mode and
the corresponding SETUP is recalled. When the Receive Mode is Section, the MP7 can be received to each internal sound sections individually.


Last edited by lophiomys; 01/10/15 11:33 AM. Reason: correction
(ad) SWEETWATER Lowest Prices
Re: The DPBSD Project! [Re: lophiomys] #2371964
01/10/15 01:58 PM
01/10/15 01:58 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,675
Northern NJ
dewster Offline OP
4000 Post Club Member
dewster  Offline OP
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,675
Northern NJ
Originally Posted by lophiomys
Maybe this makes a difference for the sympathetic resonance in the recording.

Nope, still no pedal sympathetic resonance (though there seems to be some kind of key sympathetic resonance).

I wonder if this is something Kawai is addressing with a firmware update?

Re: The DPBSD Project! [Re: dewster] #2378786
01/27/15 05:54 PM
01/27/15 05:54 PM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 364
Punta Alta, Buenos Aires, Arge...
M
Marcos Daniel Offline
Full Member
Marcos Daniel  Offline
Full Member
M

Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 364
Punta Alta, Buenos Aires, Arge...
Dewster I've just read on Blüthner digital pianos website (http://eklavier.com) that they don't use looped samples.
This is the exact text:

'Acoustic Piano Simulation Technology

Blüthner has developed a unique approach to sampling and sound modeling that allows the eKlavier to reproduce the legendary effect of the Aliquot string from the Blüthner piano. This system of sound reproduction is referred to by Blüthner as “Authentic Acoustic Behavior” and allows the eKlavier to reproduce the advanced harmonics of the acoustic instrument, such as coincidental partials when two notes are played simultaneously and the sound the dampers produce when lifting off of the string. Each sound is also produced with a full sustain and no looping.'


Pianoteq / Kawai CL 35 & MP11 / Old 1920's Upright Zimmerman
Re: The DPBSD Project! [Re: dewster] #2378803
01/27/15 06:39 PM
01/27/15 06:39 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 117
California, USA
P
pspicer Offline
Full Member
pspicer  Offline
Full Member
P

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 117
California, USA
MD, I hope to high heaven that they are not 'mistaken' and their method is not looping, has nothing to do with looping, is in no way either partially or incidentally related to looping... because if the Dewster gets ahold of it and there is looping.. OMG!!! smile


No real talent for the Piano.
Re: The DPBSD Project! [Re: Marcos Daniel] #2378828
01/27/15 07:26 PM
01/27/15 07:26 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,675
Northern NJ
dewster Offline OP
4000 Post Club Member
dewster  Offline OP
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,675
Northern NJ
Originally Posted by Marcos Daniel
Each sound is also produced with a full sustain and no looping.'

Interesting find! Though I had to really dig to find it myself! Why would they not put this in the specs, plaster it all over the web pages, etc.? I'll add it to the DP begging section.

Re: The DPBSD Project! [Re: dewster] #2379208
01/28/15 03:47 PM
01/28/15 03:47 PM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 42
Portugal
B
Bluesman Offline
Full Member
Bluesman  Offline
Full Member
B

Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 42
Portugal


Yamaha P-155, Physis H2, Roland Juno Di, Hammond Xk1 with Leslie 2101mk2
Re: The DPBSD Project! [Re: dewster] #2379568
01/29/15 11:51 AM
01/29/15 11:51 AM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,675
Northern NJ
dewster Offline OP
4000 Post Club Member
dewster  Offline OP
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,675
Northern NJ
Thanks Bluesman! Unfortunately they are recorded in mono which severely limits my analysis. What software are you using to do the recording?

Re: The DPBSD Project! [Re: dewster] #2379584
01/29/15 12:50 PM
01/29/15 12:50 PM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 42
Portugal
B
Bluesman Offline
Full Member
Bluesman  Offline
Full Member
B

Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 42
Portugal
:P

Sorry about that, I used Reaper and recorded two independent tracks for each channel, but I forgot to open the pan L and R for each one...

Tonight I'll give you the stereo ones...



Yamaha P-155, Physis H2, Roland Juno Di, Hammond Xk1 with Leslie 2101mk2
Re: The DPBSD Project! [Re: dewster] #2379738
01/29/15 06:51 PM
01/29/15 06:51 PM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 42
Portugal
B
Bluesman Offline
Full Member
Bluesman  Offline
Full Member
B

Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 42
Portugal


Yamaha P-155, Physis H2, Roland Juno Di, Hammond Xk1 with Leslie 2101mk2
Re: The DPBSD Project! [Re: dewster] #2379904
01/30/15 05:25 AM
01/30/15 05:25 AM
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 916
Germany
H
Hendrik42 Offline
500 Post Club Member
Hendrik42  Offline
500 Post Club Member
H

Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 916
Germany
I would like to provide the samples for the new Kawai CN-35. I have downloaded the MIDI file, placed it on a USB stick and the CN-35 play it ok.

I recorded the MIDI output to MP3 using the "convert to audio" function of the CN-35. I hope that was the best thing to do.

The piano was in default mode, except that I turned reverb off as requested.
I could hear key sympathetic resonance. Easy to reproduce by hand. I don't know what else I should have listened for.

Where/how do I upload the file?

EDIT: I found the post from the Forum, pointing to here for uploads: http://www.pianoworld.com/Uploads/fileuploader2.html
The limit is 5MB, but I can split in two with Keka.

Last edited by Hendrik42; 01/30/15 07:13 AM.

Kawai CN35. Daughter wanted a piano, so we got one. Now who'll learn faster? ;-)
Re: The DPBSD Project! [Re: dewster] #2379922
01/30/15 07:03 AM
01/30/15 07:03 AM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 749
Austria, EU
L
lophiomys Offline
500 Post Club Member
lophiomys  Offline
500 Post Club Member
L

Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 749
Austria, EU
One possibility would be
to open a DropBox account, upload it there, and publish the link to your file in DropBox here in this thread.

Re: The DPBSD Project! [Re: Hendrik42] #2379925
01/30/15 07:29 AM
01/30/15 07:29 AM
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 916
Germany
H
Hendrik42 Offline
500 Post Club Member
Hendrik42  Offline
500 Post Club Member
H

Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 916
Germany
Originally Posted by Hendrik42
I found the post from the Forum, pointing to here for uploads: http://www.pianoworld.com/Uploads/fileuploader2.html
The limit is 5MB, but I can split in two with Keka.


After zipping the 10MB MP3 the size is 7MB. The limit is actually ca. 4,8MB, so I split in half and then had to rename to add .txt at the end to be able to upload.
The upload finishes with an error page, but the files are at the correct locations.

The files:
http://www.pianoworld.com/Uploads/files/dpbsd_v2.0_kawai_cn35_v104_20140130.mp3.zip.001.txt
http://www.pianoworld.com/Uploads/files/dpbsd_v2.0_kawai_cn35_v104_20140130.mp3.zip.002.txt

To reassemble, one has to remove the .txt so that its again ...mp3.zip.001 etc.

This is from a Kawai CN-35 with firmware 1.04 (the latest as of now).

I'd be interested, of course, if and where Kawai has introduced improvements compared to older Kawai models which have already been analyzed. I find this project an excellent idea as it gives an objective view on the progress that is being made.

Last edited by Hendrik42; 01/30/15 07:30 AM.

Kawai CN35. Daughter wanted a piano, so we got one. Now who'll learn faster? ;-)
Re: The DPBSD Project! [Re: dewster] #2381106
02/01/15 11:40 PM
02/01/15 11:40 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,675
Northern NJ
dewster Offline OP
4000 Post Club Member
dewster  Offline OP
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,675
Northern NJ
Bluesman, thanks that is indeed in stereo. I sent you a PM.

Re: The DPBSD Project! [Re: dewster] #2381807
02/03/15 12:47 PM
02/03/15 12:47 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,675
Northern NJ
dewster Offline OP
4000 Post Club Member
dewster  Offline OP
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,675
Northern NJ
KAWAI CN35

mp3: http://www.mediafire.com/listen/veeb7um858z9wj6/dpbsd_v2.0_kawai_cn35_v104_norm.mp3

I normalized the WAV file to -1dB peak and converted it to MP3 in Adobe Audition 3.0.

In terms of testing, the sample seems to be virtually identical to the CN33 which I reviewed some time ago (almost 5 years!) here. The base samples are definitely the same, I didn't look too closely but the looping points are likely the same as well. The only difference I can see is a slight change in the layer change velocity points, but it is slight. There could be newer features in the CN35 that aren't revealed by my testing, but I'm not seeing anything earth shatteringly different.

It passed / failed just like the CN33, with the characteristic (for Kawai) failure of the silent replay test, as well as the absence of key / pedal sympathetic resonance during MIDI=>WAV rendering. Hendrik42 reports that the key / pedal sympathetic resonances are indeed present when the CN35 is played manually. (I wonder if this issue is a systematic bug, or due to a lack of horsepower?)

Originally Posted by Hendrik42
[Disclaimer: I am new to the whole piano business]When deciding on the CN-35, I also looked at the CN-25 and CA-15 by Kawai and the Yamaha CLP-525 and 535. Buying an acoustic was not an option, because I practice late and my children should be able to practice whenever they like.
The keys/action is solid, precise and quiet. It feels "real".
The three sensors per key allow to play a tone again before they key is fully back up again and this works very well.
I am able to observe key and pedal sympathetic resonance, which adds to realistic behavior.
The sound system with the four speakers is really good. We usually have the CN-35 volume on the low side, and you still get the nuances of playing quiet and loud.
The speaker/amplification system does not distort if you crank up the volume to maximum.
The pedals are solid and good to dose. Pressing sustain fully, then half and then full again gives the result I expect.
We assembled the piano ourselves and that was straightforward (you should have two people for placing the main board on the stand/frame). It is a nice addition to our living room.
The extra line of buttons above the keyboard makes it easy to select the features you want. If you do not like to see them, you can just pull the keyboard-lid down a bit.
USB/MIDI interface (in and out via USB) with Apps like Synthesia works excellent and really helps me to practice.

Thanks to Hendrik42 for the CN35 sample and observations!

Re: The DPBSD Project! [Re: dewster] #2381896
02/03/15 04:34 PM
02/03/15 04:34 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,675
Northern NJ
dewster Offline OP
4000 Post Club Member
dewster  Offline OP
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,675
Northern NJ
Viscount Physis Piano

mp3: http://www.mediafire.com/listen/ncnvd36axn217mi/dpbsd_v2.0_physis_us_stage_grand_d.mp3

----------------
- Physis Piano -
----------------
FILE & SETUP:
- dpbsd_v2.0_physis_us_stage_grand_d.mp3
- This is preset 02 "US Stage Grand D".
- Setup: Reaper, Sonic Helix Board 18 FireWire MKII interface, Physis XLR ports.
- Recorded by "Bluesman".
PROS:
- Passes the pedal sympathetic resonance test.
- Passes the silent replay test.
- Passes the quick partial damping test.
- Passes the late pedal partial damping test, note decay is caught even after 0.5 seconds.
- Passes the half pedaling test.
- Passes the looping test (unlooped).
- Passes the stretching test (unstretched).
- Timbre variation is (too?) smooth with increasing velocity.
- Pedal down sound effect is realistic.
CONS:
- Fails the key sympathetic resonance test (due to MIDI vel=1?).
- Note decay times are fairly short (~1/2 Pianoteq).
- Decay time of highest octaves is quite short.
- Lowest octave is stragely metallic / hollow sounding.
OTHER:
- Dynamic range 38dB (vel=1:127).
- Notes played @ vel=1 produce no sound.
- Dampered | undampered transition: F#6 | G6
- MP3 levels (normalized): peak @ -1dB, noise floor @ -80dB.
- Date reviewed: 2015-01-31


Originally Posted by Bluesman
[In response to DPBSD test results:]
"Fails the key sympathetic resonance test." - I tested that my self, and that effect exists and it is adjustable. But since midi vel=1 doesn't respond could be something happening related to this... I don't know...

"Note decay times are fairly short (~1/2 Pianoteq)" - this is also adjustable.

Decay time of highest octaves is quite short. - this happens in some presets, in others are too long. I think the worst problem is that they sound too loud.

"Lowest octave is strangely metallic / hollow sounding" - that depends on the velocity. There is a audible transition in lower notes. But somehow not very natural.

I think the raw sound in general is very good for a physical modeling DP, but there are some flaws in terms of balance between higher notes and lower notes, transitions and fast repetitions.

I didn't notice any key up release effect in physis acoustic piano sounds (only in clavinets), as the Yamaha p-155 exists and it is adjustable.

Yes... aluminum chassis and the glass touch panel is amazing. This stage piano is quite impressive in terms of looks. (But V-Piano is the best looking stage piano so far)

[Posted elsewhere on PW:]
But in this first days, the impressions are these:

Terrible action compared to my Yamaha p155. The best action I've tried was in V-piano, the second best in the Rd-700 NX. Keybed on physis h2 is very noisy, clunky, some notes drop out in fast passages, repetitions in lower notes sounds very muddy in some presets. I think is the third sensor that is messing the whole thing.

Compared to V-piano I found the sound of physis less synthetic. But somehow playing the V-piano is a more immersive experience, very responsive and with the dynamic like an acoustic piano despite the thinner sound. The physis is like running Pianoteq in a PC with a master controller with FATAR action.

Some presets sound awesome, and others are very unrealistic with rings and bell artifacts that emerge in a totally unnaturally form.

It's possible to tune every single note individually, but not the unison tune. Despite of that, a little detuned piano using unison parameter sounds very realistic.

The last upgrade fix some of these issues, but now the lower register is less potent...

The pedal noise is perfect.

This announced editor is a powerful tool for me, to adjust the piano for my taste, and to correct this things.

The sounds of electric pianos are the best, the acoustic bass is unbelievably good, some tonewheel organs are passable, the strings are now usable with the last update.

There are compressors, reverb, chorus, and other several DSPs, very very powerfull.

[Additional observations:]

About the action....

The only change is that now I use the "light" touch setup, and yes I can play it better, but as I saw in some Nord forums the complains about Fatar TP40 are consensual among owners.

In some gigs when I have to use local gear, I have no difficulties adapting to all kinds of stage pianos, except the nords (stage or piano).

After 2 weeks or so, playing physis every day, I still have trouble connecting to the instrument in terms of playability. In such a way that I'm afraid to use it in gigs...

The sounds:

I think the possibilities are enormous, but out of the box, there are things that obviously need some adjustment.

When I tested the V-piano, the raw sound was always the same, thin and synthetic in the mid range, despite all editing it can manages. Nevertheless, the sound was balanced and responsive in its own way. (Like a ridding a donkey...)

In the physis is the opposite. The raw sound is a step forward, but is unbalanced, unpredictable, and you can never settle down in a relaxed playing.
(Like riding a stallion laugh )

Built quality is in the top of the range. It looks expensive, and hardware and software is above all competition.

The touch panel is very good, as it is the display.
Menus are intuitive.

There are DSPs for individual sounds and Mastering tools either.

As I said, it is a very powerful stage piano.

The EPs are the best. I put physis near to a Rhodes mkII and you couldn't tell de difference.

You can even choose the preamp, efx, and combo. (tubes or d-I box, tremolo, 2x2 cone speaker), for each sound.

Thanks to Bluesman for the Physis Piano sample and extensive observations of this recent modeler!

Re: The DPBSD Project! [Re: dewster] #2381973
02/03/15 07:36 PM
02/03/15 07:36 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,675
Northern NJ
dewster Offline OP
4000 Post Club Member
dewster  Offline OP
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,675
Northern NJ
Kawai HI-XL

Today I was poking around the Kawai web pages ostensibly to download the MP7 manual (lophiomys submitted a DPBSD sample above) and by chance noticed this:

Quote
EXTRA-LONG SAMPLING

With expanded sound memory, the MP7 boasts some of the largest samples of any Kawai digital piano. This ‘eXtra Long’ standard of Harmonic Imaging technology extends the important attack portion of piano sounds by up to 120%, articulating the natural detail and resonance characteristics of each note more clearly, and improving the instrument’s organic tonal quality overall.

There are two images presumably showing the looping splice point being later for the XL technology compared to the earlier, lamer technology (which was probably the epitome of perfection before XL came along, go figure).

I see that I haven't analyzed any Kawai DPs that employ HI-XL, but that three MP3 examples are already here: MP7, CA65, and CA95. Though I eschew loopers, the MP7 actually sounds fairly OK (as these things go). I suppose that when the sample set is so severely hacked down, even a relatively small size increase has the ability to dramatically improve the sound.

Only looked at a couple of notes but the low thru mid note attacks seem on the order of ~4 seconds or so. I'll do my best to find the time to review one of these.

Re: The DPBSD Project! [Re: dewster] #2382151
02/04/15 04:47 AM
02/04/15 04:47 AM
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 916
Germany
H
Hendrik42 Offline
500 Post Club Member
Hendrik42  Offline
500 Post Club Member
H

Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 916
Germany
Hi dewster, thanks for taking the time to look into the CN-35 samples!

Looking forward to the analysis of the HI XL. One of these days I'll visit a retailer with my own headphones to see if I can hear the difference between PHI-88 and HI XL.


Kawai CN35. Daughter wanted a piano, so we got one. Now who'll learn faster? ;-)
Re: The DPBSD Project! [Re: dewster] #2382259
02/04/15 12:32 PM
02/04/15 12:32 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,675
Northern NJ
dewster Offline OP
4000 Post Club Member
dewster  Offline OP
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,675
Northern NJ
Kawai HI-XL vs. UPHI

In an effort to get some hard numbers regarding Kawai HI-XL sound technology, I looked at the looping portion of the DPBSD test for the Kawai models CA95, CA65 and MP7. They were all pretty much the same, so I picked the CA95 to measure attack and loop lengths since it was the cleanest (best SNR) sample of the three. From the spectral signatures it is quite clear that these three DPs share the same base sample set (i.e. identical acoustic piano recording) and are similarly looped.

mp3: http://www.mediafire.com/listen/l4a3ag5mpx4255l/dp_bsd_v2.0_Kawai_CA95_120bpm.mp3

Also from the spectral signatures it is quite clear that these three DPs share the same base sample set with the CA63, a DP I reviewed almost 5 years ago (DP manufacturers are like a pitbull with a fresh steak when it comes to sample sets). The CA63 employs Kawai UPHI, and I assume Kawai decided to drop the "UP" when creating the "HI-XL" moniker so as not to produce an excessive piling on of letters.

http://www.mediafire.com/listen/rec756ayg2di12s/dp_bsd_v1.3_kawai_ca63.mp3

Here are the attack and loop sample lengths:

CA63 (UPHI)
- Attack sample lengths are (C1:C8) 3.0,3.0,2.1,1.6,1.4,1.5,0.97,? seconds.
- Loop sample lengths are (C1:C8) 1.4,1.3,0.68,0.83,0.64,0.74,0.63,? seconds.

CA95 (HI-XL)
- Attack sample lengths are (C1:C8) 4.4,3.6,4.2,4.3,3.7,3.0,?,? seconds.
- Loop sample lengths are (C1:C8) 1.3,1.0,1.0,0.8,0.8,?,?,? seconds.


So we can see the loop lengths haven't changed much, but the attacks have, particularly for the mid and high notes. I would argue the lowest notes were in the most need of attack and loop sample lengthening, so the logic here rather escapes me. Perhaps they were more concerned with the mid notes since they get played the most?

Subjectively for HI-XL, I can hear the looping for the two lowest notes tested (C1 & C2) but not for the notes above that, and the looping of C3 and C4 is super bland sounding. For both UPHI and HI-XL the C3 transition from attack to loop sounds like the loop is slightly flat in pitch. For HI-XL the attack to loop transitions for the lowest notes are a little less noticeable than UPHI, but they still sound kind of unnatural to my ears, with the amplitude and timbre dipping too fast heading into the loop, and then leveling out too much once they have arrived.

Anyway, an incremental improvement in sample size but, not to look a gift horse in the mouth, Kawai would have to at least quadruple these numbers before I would consider purchasing a high end DP from them. I wonder when they (and Yamaha) will finally give us an unlooped offering? My next concern would then be: how long it will take for that unlooped voice to finally make it into a midrange portable stage slab product? My best guesses are 2020 and 2025, respectively. I hope no one out there is holding their breath.

Re: The DPBSD Project! [Re: dewster] #2382365
02/04/15 04:40 PM
02/04/15 04:40 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,675
Northern NJ
dewster Offline OP
4000 Post Club Member
dewster  Offline OP
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,675
Northern NJ
People might think I hate loopers because I can hear the looping, but it's not that simple.

Lately they've discovered that bland loops are much easier to deal with and are actually running around reducing loop sample time - the upside is you don't hear the cyclic loop, but the downside is you don't hear much of anything as they've wrung out all the interesting stuff, so for me it's a baby with the bathwater situation. If you have to loop (?) keep the loop real-sounding and make it long enough for the period not to jump out at you. And don't start looping until way into the decay phase. (But I guess that won't get you below the magic 100MB or whatever that DPs must mysteriously come in under, regardless of cost.)

And there's the awkward transition from attack sample to loop sample which provides endless fun in the way of unnatural decay dynamics, pitch changes, and stereo field shifts.

Every looper I test is proof anew that they can't do this right, and as a result I've lost all faith in the practice. The presence of looping is a guarantee that the sound is audibly artifacted and/or boring. IMO.

Re: The DPBSD Project! [Re: dewster] #2382394
02/04/15 05:56 PM
02/04/15 05:56 PM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 662
Valencia, Spain
M
mabraman Offline
500 Post Club Member
mabraman  Offline
500 Post Club Member
M

Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 662
Valencia, Spain
Great to read you, as always. Tanks, Dewster.


Learning piano from scratch since September, 2012.
Kawai ES7.Kawai K-200
Page 70 of 75 1 2 68 69 70 71 72 74 75

Moderated by  Piano World 

Shop our Store for Music Lovers!
PianoSupplies.com is Piano World's Online Store
Please visit our store today.
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Bechstein
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Charles Walter Question?
by Retsacnal. 09/19/19 11:09 PM
Dead key on Korg Concert 6000
by Infinity. 09/19/19 09:15 PM
Finally Got Good Settings for My Casio GP-500
by Tenor1. 09/19/19 06:54 PM
What's Hot!!
Our August Newsletter is Out!
------------------
Mason & Hamlin Piano Factory Tour!

-------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
Forum Statistics
Forums41
Topics194,113
Posts2,871,217
Members94,458
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers


Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2019 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1