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My daughter is already living in LA, so it's not like she's just moving out of my house now.

Also, the only way to avoid the state sales tax is to have the dealer ship directly out of state from their warehouse. You cannot take delivery inside your state and take care of the move yourself and avoid the state sales tax. The dealer must arrange the out-of-state shipping for you so that they have a bill of laden showing that it's an out-of-state sales for them.

We were hoping to save around $650 sales tax buying from AZ but shipping to CA, but if we have to pay $700 shipping then it'd be a wash anyway and we'd be better off buying one from LA directly.

That may be one option you may want to look into if you can't find a good deal with your local dealer. Find one in a neighboring state with a good deal and have it shipped to you. If the shipping cost is about the same as the sales tax, then it's a wash to you but at least you will get a better deal from out-of-state.

I bought my last car in LA for much less than what my local car dealers want for it. I then drove to LA to take delivery and drive it back to AZ.

That's not the exact same scenario as with buying the AG from out of state and have it shipped to you, but point is that you're not limited to buying from local dealers nowaday. Expand your search outside of your state for a better deal.

I bought two 7 foot grands from them and also consigned a smaller grand. Positive experience each time. I'm sure you are enjoying your N3. Marvelous instrument !! Hope you can work something out for your daughter !!

When you itemize you run into problems.

The only thing I would care about is the total. Whether it's $7000 for the piano and $200 shipping, or $200 for the piano and $7000 shipping, the result is the same: total cost = $7200.

I don't think the dealer raised your $200 shipping to $700. Rather, he "made you happy" by accepting your $7000 offer for the piano ... and then tried to take back $500 by upping the shipping line item.

I prefer to make an all-inclusive offer. One that includes taxes, fees, shipping. Only the total matters to me.

Just a wild guess:

. . . The MP11 probably fits into a flat-pack cardboard box.
. . . The N2 probably doesn't.

So the MP11 is not just lighter, but occupies less volume.

. Charles

wow

$7000 for a bunch of samples and a half decent action.

Yamaha are not daft.

I've heard you said this before in other threads. I bet you play the violin pretty well, too, huh?

Of course Yamaha are not daft. Apparently they make products people want to buy.

Yamaha knew full well when they conceived the N series pianos that they were about to offer a lineage of instruments that are vastly less expensive to produce with excellent profit margin. All while fulfilling the needs of modern city dwellers - silent practice, smaller footprint, most current sound engine, quality speaker system, a real piano action, in an elegant polished ebony case that we've come to expect of quality instruments. I really like the N's, I play the N3 frequently. It's as close as you'll get to the real thing today.

Wow, 2 7-foot grands and a Kawai DP. You must be one of their favorite customers! But then that's what they get for treating customers right, repeat business.

I'm sure my daughter can find an N2 in LA for a good price. We were just trying to see if we could save a little bit more by avoiding sales tax buying from AZ from a dealer whom we like and don't mind giving them the business. But no big deal that it didn't work out. There should be more dealers to shop from in LA anyway.

The AG happened after years of Yamaha developing their Grand Touch. They've put years of R&D. I almost bought one years ago but didn't feel the sound was on par with the price. Looking back I probably would of advanced my playing if I did go for one. Years of bad grands and uprights didn't motivate me like my current N2.

One of the grands was for a city performance venue - the other was for me - and I bought the Kawai from a rival dealer. I would hope so !!!

Excellent point here 36251. What the AG does is that it removes the limitations of the APs (tuning, maintenance, silent practice, etc) to allow people to get more use of their pianos. For people who are not bound by any of these limitations, then the AP would make more sense to them. But for people who are bound by one or more of these limitations, and can't afford both an AP and a DP due to space or money constraint, then the AG fills in this space nicely, and lets them be able to make very good use of the piano more regularly, and enjoy it, too.

I've seen DP vs hybrid vs AP wars on this forum over and over. But there shouldn't be any. Each type fulfills their niche really nicely. There's nothing wrong with buying any of these 3 types, or a combination of them. There's no need to put down one type over another. It's all about what's best suited for your needs and situation.

Hi Andy

Just saw this thread. I'm a very happy N3 owner, video below was shot using it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1EfMdbwxtM

I'm using it primarily as a MIDI controller, rather than for the (good but not great) sample library it ships with. But one of the great things about the N3 is that it can sound like any sample library that's out there.

I've posted a detailed how-did-I-do-this at the bottom of this thread:

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/2366657/Real_enough?_-_Part_2.html#Post2366657

Hope this helps! Having made the leap though, I'd never go back to an acoustic piano. The fact that it might sound more "real" is far outweighed by the recording opportunities this new setup affords me.

Hi Philip,

Yes, I'm actually very familiar with MIDI setup, I started with a keyboard and a Roland JV-1010 many many years ago ;-)

That was back before life got too busy to invest time memorizing all those patch numbers!

I'm actually decently happy with what I've heard from the N2, it will be in a rather echoey house, I don't anticipate the sound grandest being much of an issue.

On that note, I've negotiated for over a week with a patient seller, and we haven't spoken for 4 days. Today, the owner of the store popped in and gave me a call to discuss pianos, pricing, the cost of freight (all the way to South Florida, which I'm aware is higher than most areas since I'm in the shipping and logistics business).

I've always known dealers down here would be justified in charging a bit more due to the freight, it's not like we're in the middle of the country or a central state.

All that aside, after a 40 minute frank conversation on the phone with the owner, he made me a solid offer of $9K out the door (includes taxes, delivery and setup). They are the ones that would also come out to service and they supply all of Miami and most of the Florida keys with Yamahas and warranty service.

I think that's the best I'm going to get, and I feel it's fair. I'll be financing about half and will further pay that down when my tax refund comes in.

A 15K+ MIDI controller.

I think he wants it to look like a grand piano, too, because he's using it to make Youtube videos and he doesn't want people to see that he's playing on an upright piano.

Otherwise, he could probably have opted for the N2, or even the N1 (if he doesn't care for the tactile feedback, aka buzzing feel on the keys), both of which are cheaper than the N3. All 3 of these (N3, N2, N1) use the same grand action.

So Andy, did you get your N2 yet? If yes, how is it working out for you?

My daughter finally bought an N3 in LA a few days ago for $11.9K out the door tax/delivery included using credit card payment (another 1.5% rebate from the credit card company). She was originally looking at the N2 and they quoted her $9K out the door for it (at 9% tax and maybe $125 delivery cost) credit card price. But she decided to spring for the N3 in the end because she has the room in her apartment for it anyway.

So I think the $9K you were quoted is right in the same neighborhood of her LA quoted price (don't know what the FL tax and delivery is though) which was the best deal she could find after visiting 3 dealerships.

Hope you're enjoying the N2.

@Volusiano, thanks for posting these prices; this gives forum members a further perspective on the -actual- selling prices for these instruments.

The N2's MSRP is $15,000, so uninformed customers could end up paying as much as $12,000 for an N2, and think they're getting a great deal.

Was the 9K quote for the N2 with taxes and delivery included?

Hi Pete, yes, the $9K for the N2 is with 9% tax and about $125 delivery already included in the price. The math works out to about $8,142 before tax and delivery, in case your tax is different in your local area. This is also not a cash price. You can pay with credit card for it and earned cash back (or miles) from the credit card company if you want.

She went to 3 dealers total. The first one in the Burbank area quoted her $8,300 cash price for the N2 before tax, but would include delivery (salesman said he'll pay for delivery out of his commission in order to close the deal). The second one in Pasadena, same store name as first one actually, just different location, surprisingly wanted $11K firm for the N2 and $14,300 firm for the N3, both before tax and delivery. Third store in downtown LA area gave her the best credit card prices as mentioned above.

So I guess it really depends on where you shop. Apparently the second store in Pasadena can move AvantGrand fast enough in that area that they won't budge on their higher price.

Thank you, Volusiano.

The Prices can vary widely from dealer to dealer.

Buyers beware: regardless of the piano/model, if you're buying from a piano dealer always keep in mind that the MSRP's are deliberately inflated.

I did receive it, just a few short days ago, it's been a very busy week with little time to use it.

My god, I can't believe I was worried it wouldn't seem like a real piano. The build quality is top notch, the details are stunning. The sound is very much real enough. The single disappointment is the sound through headphones, which is not so much of a disappointment really. Just doesn't do it justice that they down samples the 4 channels to 2. I've tried it with a few pair of headphones, the only real help for the clarity is turning off reverb.

It truly is a work of art, and I made the right choice.

Now if only I could find a decent app to allow my iPhone to play midi files via the N2 sound system and tones. Hasn't worked so far, even with the iConnectMidi1 module that comes with the Lightning cable, no mods needed. I have lots of experience with Midi, just doesn't seem to want to cooperate with my iPhone and the few midi player apps I've tried (nothing outputs the data, just sound to the iPhone speaker).

It seem that this will be easier on my iPad using something like Symphony Pro, but I'd like to accomplish this on my iPhone.

Overall I'm thrilled and the feel is exceptional. I definitely thing the correct setting in my enviroment is lowering the reverb and upping the TRS, now to just make it the default. Manual time!