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Kawai CN35 keyboard noise #2376342
01/21/15 03:45 PM
01/21/15 03:45 PM
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Indigo890 Offline OP
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Just got my new CN35 piano and after a few days quite a number of keys having loud letoff noise. Can hear it while playing. Went back to the store and the one standing on the store started to have the same issues.

Poor quality at Kawai's end? Any else have the same issue?
I will return mine.

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Re: Kawai CN35 keyboard noise [Re: Indigo890] #2376354
01/21/15 04:22 PM
01/21/15 04:22 PM
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Hendrik42 Offline
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Hi, can you be more specific?

How does that loud letoff sound? Like the normal letoff, just louder? Or different?

Is it only a few keys? 5? 50? Where placed?

Did you already play a lot?

Also, at which volume level do you play?

We have ours for about three weeks now and have not noticed anything abnormal, but we're bloody beginners and do not yet seriously play, but taking our first steps.

We usually play with volume at third line (first line being silent) and sometimes even only at second line, so that the rest of the family can still have a conversation at the other end of the room.


Kawai CN35. Daughter wanted a piano, so we got one. Now who'll learn faster? ;-)
Re: Kawai CN35 keyboard noise [Re: Indigo890] #2376410
01/21/15 07:04 PM
01/21/15 07:04 PM
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With the piano turned off, push each key in and let go quickly. About 20keys are making a vibrating noise or more like a extra bounce.

Re: Kawai CN35 keyboard noise [Re: Indigo890] #2376423
01/21/15 07:45 PM
01/21/15 07:45 PM
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Hamamatsu, Japan
Kawai James Offline
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Hello Indigo890, welcome to the forum.

It's a little difficult to comment on whether or not there is an issue with the keyboard action in your CN35. Please bear in mind that all keyboard actions will produce some kind of noise, due to the movement of the mechanism, however some individuals are more sensitive to this sound than others.

My suggestion would be to contact the dealer from whom the instrument was purchased to seek their advice. One of their technicians may be able to visit your home, play the piano, and assess whether there is an issue that needs to be addressed.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
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Re: Kawai CN35 keyboard noise [Re: Indigo890] #2376436
01/21/15 08:16 PM
01/21/15 08:16 PM
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Indigo890 Offline OP
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I did and the one they have in tje store seems to start to get the same issue. The cn25 seems to be fine. I am going to get it exchanged with the new ca67. The ca models have a better key action it seems. More quit and more solid

Re: Kawai CN35 keyboard noise [Re: Indigo890] #2376443
01/21/15 08:35 PM
01/21/15 08:35 PM
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Indigo890 Offline OP
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I can send you a small video where in its very clear what the issue is.

Re: Kawai CN35 keyboard noise [Re: Indigo890] #2376449
01/21/15 08:53 PM
01/21/15 08:53 PM
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Hamamatsu, Japan
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Originally Posted by Indigo890
I can send you a small video where in its very clear what the issue is.


Thank you, but technical support is not my area of responsibility, and I'm afraid there's really not a great deal I can do from this office.

Again, my recommendation would be to contact the dealer and seek their advice.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
Re: Kawai CN35 keyboard noise [Re: Indigo890] #2376457
01/21/15 09:15 PM
01/21/15 09:15 PM
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lolatu Offline
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Originally Posted by Indigo890
I can send you a small video where in its very clear what the issue is.

Post it on YouTube and link here. You will get more opinions, and it can help other buyers if they know what problems to look out for.

Originally Posted by Indigo890
I am going to get it exchanged with the new ca67. The ca models have a better key action it seems. More quit and more solid

The CA models are pretty quiet (when working properly), but if your CN35 was defective then you might find a non-defective one acceptable. For the Grand Feel action there have been a lot more problems of noisy keys reported on these forums than there have been for the RH actions. I don't know what they've done to improve the action in the new CA models, but by past performance, going for the CA model may actually be riskier than sticking with the CN35.


Kawai CA95 / Steinberg UR22 / Sony MDR-7506 / Pianoteq Stage + Grotrian / Galaxy Vintage D / CFX Lite
In the loft: Roland FP3 / Tannoy Reveal Active / K&M 18810
Re: Kawai CN35 keyboard noise [Re: lolatu] #2376462
01/21/15 09:29 PM
01/21/15 09:29 PM
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Hamamatsu, Japan
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Originally Posted by lolatu
Post it on YouTube and link here.


If you do decide to follow lolatu's advice, may I request that you set the video to 'unlisted'.

Originally Posted by lolatu
For the Grand Feel action there have been a lot more problems of noisy keys reported on these forums than there have been for the RH actions.


I believe most cases of 'Grand Feel' action noise are the result of shipping damage of the MP11 - a large, heavy instrument that is unfortunately often dropped and roughly handled by delivery drivers.

For console instruments such as the CA series, a piano will typically be delivered by the Kawai dealer, handled correctly, and therefore arrive free of shipping damage.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
Re: Kawai CN35 keyboard noise [Re: Indigo890] #2376478
01/21/15 09:54 PM
01/21/15 09:54 PM
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These problems were just as common with the CA models as with the MP11, so I don't buy the transport damage explanation. It was a design / production fault with the action. Search for posts about the CA95 and you'll find multiple complaints about noisy keys from forum members such as myself, iceporky, UK Paul UK, cub, pv88, Dutch Dhamma... and many others.

If the designers are still under the impression that it's just transportation problems, that doesn't bode well for the new models, because it's unlikely they've addressed the real issue.


Kawai CA95 / Steinberg UR22 / Sony MDR-7506 / Pianoteq Stage + Grotrian / Galaxy Vintage D / CFX Lite
In the loft: Roland FP3 / Tannoy Reveal Active / K&M 18810
Re: Kawai CN35 keyboard noise [Re: Indigo890] #2376495
01/21/15 11:30 PM
01/21/15 11:30 PM
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Hamamatsu, Japan
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lolatu,

The majority of action noise complaints received for the MP11/VPC1 are related to shipping damage due to rough handling during delivery. As a result of customer feedback (and posts made to this forum) we have taken steps in recent months to reinforce the shipping box and areas of the instrument's chassis in an effort to reduce the incidence of faults caused by such damage.

As for the CA95 owner's that you highlight, given the thousands of Concert Artist instruments sold worldwide, it's not unexpected that a handful of customers will experience action noise on one or two keys. These instruments utilise 88 individually cut, real wooden keys, meaning that for each piano there's 88 possible chances of a note being slightly less than perfect, thus contributing to action noise.

Kawai makes every effort to ensure that digital piano keyboard actions are as quiet as possible, and I believe the improvements we make with each successive generation are appreciated by our customers. We also investigate methods to improve the quality of our manufacturing processes, including refinements to the action design and assembly.

Unfortunately, there will be occasions when a customer receives an instrument that is faulty, or develops a particular issue over time. This is of course regrettable, but an almost inevitable trait of manufactured products.

Fortunately, Kawai has an excellent track record with support advice, warranty servicing, and product replacement. If a customer does experience any issues with their instrument, they can be confident that Kawai dealers, distributors, and of course the company itself will resolve the matter as quickly as possible.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
Re: Kawai CN35 keyboard noise [Re: Indigo890] #2376549
01/22/15 03:33 AM
01/22/15 03:33 AM
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I'd be interested in the video. A unlisted youtube is fine, link here or via PM. I'll check ours with your description (thanks!) and see if I have anything.

Our box looked fine from a shipping damage perspective, but if the thing was dropped flat (not edge) I doubt one would see that.


Kawai CN35. Daughter wanted a piano, so we got one. Now who'll learn faster? ;-)
Re: Kawai CN35 keyboard noise [Re: Indigo890] #2376576
01/22/15 06:12 AM
01/22/15 06:12 AM
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Indigo890 Offline OP
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I just tried to upload the video onto youtube.
This should be the link:
http://youtu.be/62N0A3r6trc

Re: Kawai CN35 keyboard noise [Re: Indigo890] #2376580
01/22/15 06:23 AM
01/22/15 06:23 AM
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Hamamatsu, Japan
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Indigo890, I have watched the video and can hear a sound when the key is released.

It may be exaggerated in the recording, but in any case, I would recommend that you raise this matter with the dealer and ask their advice.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
Re: Kawai CN35 keyboard noise [Re: Indigo890] #2376581
01/22/15 06:27 AM
01/22/15 06:27 AM
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Was done already. The otherone they have in the store starts to have the same noises. The cn 25 which has the same key action does not have this issue. Must be a manufacturing batch error.
I really like the feel of the ca models.

Re: Kawai CN35 keyboard noise [Re: Indigo890] #2376798
01/22/15 04:09 PM
01/22/15 04:09 PM
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Sounds like something is loose on the inside. Indigo you seem to indicate that the problem is getting worse over time and that the problem is starting to occur on store units where the issue did not exist previously. Is this correct?



No real talent for the Piano.
Re: Kawai CN35 keyboard noise [Re: Indigo890] #2376834
01/22/15 05:43 PM
01/22/15 05:43 PM
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Going to wait for the deliveryof the CA67. Don't trust this CN35 keyboard quality anymore. Thanks for all your input.

Re: Kawai CN35 keyboard noise [Re: Indigo890] #2376931
01/22/15 11:31 PM
01/22/15 11:31 PM
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Don't know why you bother passing on your knowledge and experience of Kawai products KJ. Why bother advising people to get a Kawai expert to look at a possibly faulty piano, when you've got Internet whizz kids who analyse and give advice, using the fantastic, true to life sounds that You Tube produces to advise.

Indigo, if you do not trust Kawai keyboard actions, why are you buying another Kawai product? Why denigrate a product and then buy another? On the other hand, if you do trust Kawai keyboards enough to buy another, it begs the question why don't you just get the shop to exchange it? Then again they have just brought out the new CA67 model. By the way, you are probably going to spend double on the CA67 then what you spent on the CN35, have you ever heard the saying "You get what you pay for"?

Re: Kawai CN35 keyboard noise [Re: pspicer] #2376937
01/22/15 11:44 PM
01/22/15 11:44 PM
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Originally Posted by pspicer
Indigo you seem to indicate that the problem is getting worse over time and that the problem is starting to occur on store units where the issue did not exist previously. Is this correct?

I suspect it was just the choice of words giving that impression and Indigo890 sees signs of the problem the more Indigo890 looks for it in the floor model.

Originally Posted by Indigo890
...the one they have in tje store seems to start to get the same issue.

Re: Kawai CN35 keyboard noise [Re: Phil Greenough] #2377015
01/23/15 06:20 AM
01/23/15 06:20 AM
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I dont say that i don't trust them. The reason i had bought the cn35 was the key action. Not sure if there are manufacturing quality issues with this lind of new action or just a fluke. I am jusy stating here my experience and wonder how many more are out there.
The grand feel action has been out longer and seem to be a better key action. My dealer is giving me a excelent discount to exchange this faulty cn35 for a ca65 for 500 dollar more.
But now i wonder if i should wait and get the ca 67.

Re: Kawai CN35 keyboard noise [Re: Hendrik42] #2377031
01/23/15 07:16 AM
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Hendrik42,
Did you hear similair noises on your ca35?

Re: Kawai CN35 keyboard noise [Re: Indigo890] #2377067
01/23/15 09:32 AM
01/23/15 09:32 AM
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So I was able to do what you advised and turn the CN-35 off and then play all the keys. The all sound the same and "normal".

Then I just watched your YouTube video and I agree with the idea that it sounds like something got loose. In any case, I do not have that sound/issue here.

Did you play a lot before that started to happen? We have a one hour piano lesson a week, I practice about 20min/day on average and every now and then my kids torture the thing for a couple of minutes.


Kawai CN35. Daughter wanted a piano, so we got one. Now who'll learn faster? ;-)
Re: Kawai CN35 keyboard noise [Re: Indigo890] #2377080
01/23/15 10:03 AM
01/23/15 10:03 AM
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I just got the piano a week ago.

Re: Kawai CN35 keyboard noise [Re: Indigo890] #2377237
01/23/15 05:12 PM
01/23/15 05:12 PM
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I have to correct myself. Three keys, middle c (c1, right), c and C (in other words, the next two c's on the left side) make a different sound than the others on letting go. It is not so pronounced as in your YouTube video, I think, but it is there. Middle c, which is probably one of the most played keys so far (the three weeks we have it) is worst, the two others less so.

At the moment, I can only hear it, when the DP is off, or when I play middle c very gentle.

I'll have to see if this gets worse in the next days/weeks.


Kawai CN35. Daughter wanted a piano, so we got one. Now who'll learn faster? ;-)
Re: Kawai CN35 keyboard noise [Re: Hendrik42] #2377251
01/23/15 05:44 PM
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Hopefully more will notice as well as Kawai. Clearly there seems to be something going on with the CN keyboards.

No response from kawai as of yet.

Re: Kawai CN35 keyboard noise [Re: Indigo890] #2377299
01/23/15 07:24 PM
01/23/15 07:24 PM
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Hamamatsu, Japan
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Originally Posted by Indigo890
No response from kawai as of yet.


Indigo, may I ask when and to whom your message was sent?

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
Re: Kawai CN35 keyboard noise [Re: Kawai James] #2377311
01/23/15 07:56 PM
01/23/15 07:56 PM
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The store did send the video from my piano and the one at the store to their kawai rep. Guess everyone is busy with the NAMM. I should hear something next week. At least i will return my cn35 next week and wait for better things to come. Like the ca67.

Re: Kawai CN35 keyboard noise [Re: Indigo890] #2377319
01/23/15 08:07 PM
01/23/15 08:07 PM
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Indigo, I see.

May I ask if you are based in the US?

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
Re: Kawai CN35 keyboard noise [Re: Kawai James] #2377323
01/23/15 08:11 PM
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Re: Kawai CN35 keyboard noise [Re: Indigo890] #2377327
01/23/15 08:18 PM
01/23/15 08:18 PM
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Okay, thank you.

Yes, as you note, NAMM is a very busy time for many members of staff at Kawai America, so it may take a few days for your case to be followed-up. Please remain patient.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
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