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Vince,

I stand corrected. For some reason I thought I remembered one of the dealers here saying that pianos at NAMM were not thoroughly prepped. I can't find it now. [edit: chuckle, chuckle ...it was you, Vince, who said the pianos aren't ready for the public, which led me to my incorrect extrapolation! ]

The question still remains ...can you guys really make fine distinctions between makes and models at NAMM with all that stuff going on around you? Is the personal touch of talking with the so-and-so rep more important than actually sampling the merchandise, and if so is the expense of maintaining all that hardware throughout the show largely a response to an arms race ....i.e. if Bechstein brings a dozen pianos then Schimmel and Yamaha and etc etc all feel compelled to put on huge displays too.

Just FYI...NAMM booths are set up according to Industry specifics...Guitars would never be next to Pianos.

You may find some smaller piano co. next to band instruments. but all the big boys have their own levels or even hotel conference rooms.

The pianos at NAMM are generally in dreadful prep, with a very few exceptions.

It is very hard to tell how good a piano is performing at the NAMM show. You can tell about many aspects of the quality of the instrument's build. And if you have enough experience, you can have some idea of the instruments potential.

With all of that, I generally insist on having companies that want me to carry their pianos, regardless of price, ship me examples of what I may buy with no obligation to me. It takes us time to really get to know what a piano can do. Sometimes a surprising amount. The willingness of the manufacturer to do this also tells me a lot about how much they believe in their product, and if they are looking for a great long term relationship with me, or just a few quick sales.

Let me help answer some of the questions.

Some really important things happen at the show:

1. Dealers get to see models, styles and finishes that they don't carry. This better enables them to tell their customers about them.

2. Dealers get to meet, face-to-face, executives, "pions", and those in between that they talk to on the phone often. It allows us to establish a more personal relationship, putting a face and a personality with the "voice on the phone".

3. Dealers can often see prototypes, and new models, and feedback opinions.

4. There are generally "specials" offered, and if you need to make "an offer in negotiation", the head honchos are there to say yea or nay. Many decisions made by pianos dealerships at the show involve millions of dollars.

5. It is a great opportunity to meet non-competing dealerships that carry the same brands and swap ideas and "war stories".

6. Just walking each row from one end of the show (Hall E) to the other takes about 5-6 hours. In that time you can basically see every new product, every new vendor, as well as almost every product carried by music dealerships worldwide. Dealers have the opportunity to evaluate everything to determine if they think it is right for their market, and to set up an account and order the new items.

Here's another perspective:

I'm a full-line dealership. That means we carry not only pianos, but guitars, all the band and orchestral instruments and associated accessories. It took me the 3 of the 4 days just to keep appointments to see the vendors I do business with. In a typical show I would meet with Samick, Petrof, Kawai, PianoDisc, Young Chang, Hammond, Fender, Peavey, Roland, St. Louis Music, Kaman, LeBlanc, Jansen, House of Troy, and a dozen or so quick meetings with smaller vendors.In a typical show I would commit to spending $300,000-$500,000.

Believe me, I came home exhausted!!!

(BTW, I now have others who do much of the legwork for me as I work at the show as a consultant. This year, as last year, I will be working with Samick.)

If I had to "compete" with the general public for time and attention, I'd have to kill them all...one at a time!!!!

Uh, well, that's a pretty good reason for me to avoid NAMM. I'll let ftp sneak in instead .

I'm now thoroughly confused about how much care and attention is lavished on prep. I guess the common ground between Vince and Keith is that the pianos aren't consumer ready and do not perform to their potential at NAMM, which is another good reason for consumer types to avoid it (even if we were invited). On the other hand, not every dealer keeps their pianos well prepped in the showroom.

The The NAMM show isn't a "show." It's a convention. I think that's the first part where people get confused.

Being a convention, hotel rooms are scarce months before -- FOR MILES. Restaurants are packed and reserved out weeks in advance. Parking is a major challenge too. All the best dinners and parties are invitation-only and are also planned out months in advance. With Disneyland right across the street you get a double-whammy on parking and rooms on the weekend.

The show's purpose is strategic to the industry as opposed to being an attraction, like a car show.

But it IS a convention. Imagine the National Association of Realtor's Annual Convention in Las Vegas. Now add buyers and sellers. Confusing? Probably.

Imagine a music concert featuring the biggest names in classical music, rock and pop all in one giant venue. Now imagine giving everyone a backstage pass.

Mayhem.

It's not a show and not designed like one, hence the term NAMM show is misleading.

I think this "show" isn't about pianos but is just a big boondoggle that qualifies as a tax deduction.

That is absurd.

In my fields of work, I go to AHR (Air conditioning, Heating, and Refrigerating) Expo and Interbike almost every year. These are exposition/trade shows/industry shows where manufacturers/dealers/distributors/consultants come to display/learn about the new products. They are not open to the general public either.

This thread carries an interesting dealer perspective.

However, the general trend seems to be that the acoustic piano industry is struggling in many parts of the world.

In the end dealers need to shift more pianos and the people who buy them are the general public and institutions.

So, although NAMM may not be the forum for the general public, perhaps it may be worth the industry re-evaluating whether a piano event aimed at the public may be a good idea?

I have been a keen guitarist for a good many years and a collector of mainly vintage guitars for several years. Although I am not a dealer I do get invited to guitar and amp trade shows on trade only days and have seen at first hand the difference in civility between trade and public days. So I sympathise with that view point. But I have seen a heck of a lot of guitars sold on public days (and don't assume that this is just sales of instruments worth a few hundred dollars. Top flight guitars can be seriously expensive).

So, I do wonder if FTP in fact has a very good point when he started this thread. Is there a tangible forum that dealers can exploit that will help to revitalise this industry?

Kind regards

Adrian

Pianos and guitars are an "apples and oranges" comparison.

Guitars are much smaller and lighter, thus they can be moved far more easily, making them a better choice for public trade shows.

Pianos are generally considerably more expensive, and in this day and age aren't as popular with the public as guitars. Also, you don't have to worry about people placing food and drink on your guitars, unlike pianos.

Due to the significant expense of most pianos, they're an item that isn't going to "fly off" the tradeshow floor in great numbers.

Just the expense of getting the pianos transported, set up and prepped properly for the shows would be significant--thus cutting well into profit margins.

As several others have already mentioned, as far as pianos go, public tradeshows aren't really a good idea.