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Re: Urgent advice neded about restringing the bass [Re: akin] #2372030 01/10/15 04:52 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
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Silverwood Pianos Offline
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lots of free photo services online to upload photos to.

then provide the link.

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Re: Urgent advice neded about restringing the bass [Re: akin] #2372034 01/10/15 05:03 PM
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akin Offline OP
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Re photos: I am not sure if this link works, but I'll give it a try

[img]http://i57.tinypic.com/2rxyvww.jpg[[/img]

Re: Urgent advice neded about restringing the bass [Re: akin] #2372037 01/10/15 05:09 PM
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beethoven986 Offline
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Originally Posted by akin

Re photos: I am not sure if this link works, but I'll give it a try

[img]http://i57.tinypic.com/2rxyvww.jpg[[/img]


Yes, the link works.

Regarding the work... Lol, uuummmmm... no. That all needs to be redone. Fire the tech who did that and find someone qualified to re-do it, and the rest of the work you were planning to do. Good grief. That's not even apprentice level quality.

Re: Urgent advice neded about restringing the bass [Re: Silverwood Pianos] #2372038 01/10/15 05:12 PM
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akin Offline OP
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Here's another one:

[img][IMG]http://i59.tinypic.com/vfywwp.jpg[/I[/img]

Re: Urgent advice neded about restringing the bass [Re: akin] #2372040 01/10/15 05:21 PM
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Silverwood Pianos Offline
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The strings can be saved. A restorative technician is required here; one that has knowledge of how to unwind the strings without rotating the new tuning pins.

Then the use of a dummy pin comes into play.

This is careful work to complete but there is fortunately enough length on those pieces of wire to form proper coils and beckets. Looks like there is enough room to form proper coils and tighten them up correctly on the tuning pins.

Do you have email for this technician. Not for here but to send him/her a link to this thread.

A stop work demand is in order for the present time. There will be what is called a back charge to the original tech to pay for the corrections of the second.

Re: Urgent advice neded about restringing the bass [Re: akin] #2372050 01/10/15 06:12 PM
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Tim Sullivan Offline
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That's a pathetic restringing attempt. I wouldn't be comfortable re-using the strings. The amount of string manipulation required to re-use them may weaken them enough to cause breakage in the not-so-distant future. I'm so sorry you have to go through this. Best wishes,
Tim


I'm a piano tech and dealer in Central Ontario.
www.huntsvillepiano.ca
Re: Urgent advice neded about restringing the bass [Re: akin] #2372060 01/10/15 06:52 PM
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terminaldegree Offline
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I would never accept stringing work that looked like that on my piano.


Pianist, teacher, apprentice technician, internet addict.
Piano Review Editor - Acoustic and Digital Piano Buyer
Re: Urgent advice neded about restringing the bass [Re: akin] #2372069 01/10/15 07:15 PM
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rXd Offline
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This is bad enough but there's no guessing what else the strings have gone through during installation, over tensioning, over twisting, maybe in the wrong direction, even touching the windings can deaden the tone and often leaves dark marks on the copper. Many things that show up later. How much oversize or overlength were the pins?
Some of the coils are in the wrong direction making tuning unpredictable to say the least.

Questions that can only be answered or intelligently guessed at by a technician with a lot of stringing experience.

RPT is not necessarily a good guideline or qualification for this kind of experience and, although many who specialise more in tuning have the necessary experience, a reputable rebuilder is safest bet. They will usually have an established workshop where work in progress can usually be seen.


Amanda Reckonwith
Concert & Recording tuner-tech, London, England.
"in theory, practice and theory are the same thing. In practice, they're not." - Lawrence P. 'Yogi' Berra.


Re: Urgent advice neded about restringing the bass [Re: akin] #2372075 01/10/15 07:51 PM
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Thank you for posting the two photos. If the tech has given you enough coil to work with (string can break at the becket) then a really good tech can probably save these. However, the cost to restore plus reinstall on the pins may exceed (or be close enough to) the cost of just buying a new set of bass strings +installation. Coils flush with plate are a concern: overturning pins is possible and this is neither good for string nor block. This should be evaluated as well. If it were me, I'd cut my losses and invest in peace of mind: get a new set installed by a good rebuilder or tech. Best wishes,

Last edited by bkw58; 01/10/15 07:59 PM. Reason: clarity

Bob W.
Piano Technician (Retired since 2006)
Conway, Arkansas
www.pianotechno.blogspot.com
Re: Urgent advice neded about restringing the bass [Re: akin] #2372105 01/10/15 09:17 PM
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Gene Nelson Offline
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One could argue that your new set of bass strings were damaged. I second the earlier comment about getting your money back at least.
Careful work can make proper coils out of the mess however any twisting and turning of the wire tends to weaken it.
What if the wire beaks on a bichord wire in the restoration process? Then you need to get a matched replacement or make a splice.
If you get your money back I would go for a new set and take time to find a qualified technician to do the work.
In addition, more than absolutely necessary turning of the tuning pins tends to reduce torque prematurely. More damage.


RPT
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Re: Urgent advice neded about restringing the bass [Re: akin] #2372156 01/10/15 11:30 PM
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rysowers Offline
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Here's the pictures, in case anyone wants to see them without following the link:

The first one looks really bad, especially the coils down on the plate. It makes me think he drove the pins down to tighten them up. That one coil on the end is a real mess.


[Linked Image]

The second picture looks much better to me. I feel these could be made acceptable with a minor amount of work using a coil lifter and a coil tapper. Some of the coils look nice and tight. I'm not to keen on the becket sticking so far out, but that doesn't really hurt anything. Just looks a little untidy. I still prefer that to the "locking beckets" that some manufacturers used. Those really suck.
[Linked Image]

I would be careful not to throw the baby out with the bathwater (as my dad was so often fond of saying :))

I'm more concerned about the rest of the work - the hammers shanks and flanges. If he is getting the parts from Brooks LTD, then you may be in OK shape, because they can do all the boring, tapering, and hanging on the shanks. As long as they line up with the strings the job may be acceptable. That being said, the piano will need to be regulated, and hopefully the technician is better at regulating than stringing.

The price you quoted seems very low. Here's how I would bid the work you listed. This is just a "ball park" quote, of course. The second lower number listed would be what I would consider "low end prices" for these items.

Restring bass section $1200/800
New hammers shanks and flanges: $2400/$1600
Action regulation: $1200/600
Tune piano:
Tone regulation: $600/90
Total: $5400/$3090

You said he quote $2700 for the whole job. Thats substantially lower than a "econojob" So he must not be marking up the parts, and he's probably not included much action regulation or tone regulation.

Keep us posted how things work out! Should be interesting drama...




Ryan Sowers,
Pianova Piano Service
Olympia, WA
www.pianova.net
Re: Urgent advice neded about restringing the bass [Re: rysowers] #2372453 01/11/15 06:33 PM
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akin Offline OP
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Thank you for posting the photos. As you can now see, some pins have coils both above and below the string, others have coils bearing on each other, rather than on their pins. Any advice regarding the bunching of the felt strip, leaving the strings to bear on the exposed part of the plate?

Re: Urgent advice neded about restringing the bass [Re: akin] #2372474 01/11/15 07:47 PM
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rysowers Offline
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Those strings can be loosened, a little glue worked under the felt, and then the strings can be pulled back up.


Ryan Sowers,
Pianova Piano Service
Olympia, WA
www.pianova.net
Re: Urgent advice neded about restringing the bass [Re: akin] #2372620 01/12/15 10:32 AM
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woodfab Offline
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I've seen poor workmanship over the years similar to that in other fields such as plumbing, woodworking, etc.
I found that alcohol consumption is a major contributor to poor work.


Dan (Piano Tinkerer)
Re: Urgent advice neded about restringing the bass [Re: akin] #2372784 01/12/15 06:59 PM
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Burnside Piano Offline
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Given the extremely poor workmanship displayed here, I would not recommend having even a highly experienced tech try to salvage the existing strings. There's no telling how much damage the "tooner" might have done to them.


Kent Burnside
Registered Piano Technician
Franklin TN 37064

Re: Urgent advice neded about restringing the bass [Re: akin] #2372788 01/12/15 07:11 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
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Silverwood Pianos Offline
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Unnecessary to have a scorched earth policy.

The photos show lousy coils which can be easily improved. The majority of them can be tightened up and lifted off the plate fairly easily. I would be interested in viewing the other end of the strings and over the bridge.

The low A would have to be done in a particular way. After 41 years in this trade I get called quite a bit to clean up a mess such as this one.

Nothing wrong with the new pin set. I would be concerned about how they were installed though. Hopefully the block was jacked…..
This one has to be inspected in person to get a sense of damage to new parts, if any. It seems the correct parts were purchased, it is just lousy execution.

Unfortunately most general liability policies do not cover poor workmanship.

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