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Originally posted by Requiem Aeternam:
hey sam I didn't know you auditioned to all of those schools, are you saying that even Oberlin didn't require arpeggios and scales?

I just got back from Cleveland. It was great!

The audition itself had its ups and downs, but overall I think it went very well. There were probably about 5 judges in the room (I didn't really pay attention to that). They didn't want to see the actual music scores (which surprised me), but I recited for them the program that I had prepared. Then they asked me what I wanted to play first, so I said, "How about some Bach?" Prelude and Fugue in E-Flat Minor (Book I). There were a few slip-ups, but I was able in most cases (except for 1!!) to go right on 2-3 measures later (one spot I stopped for a few seconds before continuing two lines later).

Then, the first two pages of the Beethoven 1st movement, first two variations of the 2nd movement, and the Shostakovich prelude.

NO CHOPIN! I was shocked. Oh well. Next time.

The theory/ear training exams were no fun. The theory exam actually wasn't all bad: I had to write out some scales and key signatures, complete intervals, and write four-part harmonizations. I think I did well on that, except for the four-part writing, but the ear-training test, which required recognition of intervals, texture (major, minor, dimished, augmented), and transcribing 2-part harmonization and analyzing the chord progressions, was not easy But the exams aren't really so important, as compared to the audition!

Good luck to everybody else with their auditions. This was the first of four for me, and it went very well. The judges were very nice, and they made the whole process smooth and comfortable. It was fun, above all!

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Well, I just got back from Oberlin, OH and my audition.

I was really looking forward to this one, especially when I found out at the orientation that the piano auditions are 20 minutes, as opposed to the 10-minute auditions I got at Michigan and Cleveland Institute. Well, my judges cut me 10 minutes short, so I still only got 10 minutes!! I don't know if that's good or bad...

The theory test was multiple-choice, which I guess is supposed to make it easier...

So it terms of the audition I figured, at both of my other auditions I played the Bach P+F in E-flat minor, which is 10 minutes long, and didn't get to play any Chopin or even the 3rd movement of the Beethoven sonata. So today I thought I'd be smart, even with a 20-minute (???) audition, and play the shorter C-minor P+F, which is only 3 minutes. Well, so much for that idea - I blanked out halfway through the prelude, started over, blanked out at the same spot, and was very much indebted to the judge who finally said, "How about starting the fugue?" The fugue was amazing. But as for the prelude - I guess I deserved it for changing the program at the last minute!

First three minutes of the Beethoven Appassionata (pretty well). No 2nd or 3rd movement.

Chopin Revolutionary Etude but no Raindrop Prelude.

The Shostakovich went really well.

"Would you please play 'Happy Birthday' in the key of D Major?"

Oh boy. I had been warned of this. So I started, "D-D-..."

"No. It won't start on a D in the key of D major, will it?"

Well, I figured it out eventually. Gotta start on the dominant A... And then I had to add the left hand chords to it! Oh my goodness...

(Sorry for the long report.... maybe some of you are going to audition at Oberlin?)

A little bit of eartraining... and sightreading. Edward MacDowell.

Anyways, I survived. I'll be hearing by April 1st if I'm in or not (I think they accept about 70 pianists [9 professors x 4 (4 students per studio) x 2 (just in case some accepted applicants go elsewehere)] but a couple hundred audition)

Now I'm listening to Richard Goode, just to hear how I SHOULD HAVE played the Appassionata!

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<a href="https://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?/topic/2/6871.html" target="new_window">My First Audition</a>

Hehehe....

I just played my last college audition yesterday at Indiana University. It was by far my best audition, and I really hope that the judges thought it was really good, too!

First I played the Bach C Minor Prelude and Fugue from Book 1, the best I had ever played it. I played sooooo fast but with good control. (As commented in another post, I too heard some sort of metronomic tapping during the beginning of the prelude! Maybe it was just my imagination... ) I had a couple of finger slips towards the end of the prelude, but the rest of the prelude and the fugue were really well-played, I thought.

Next I played the first 2 1/2 variations of the Appassionata 2nd movement. I'm not sure it was my best playing of that piece, but I still did really well with it. Originally, the judges asked for the 2nd and 3rd movements, but had me stop after the first 2 1/2 variations... hmmmm...

Finished with the Chopin Revolutionary Etude Op. 10 No. 12. Wow, did I play that fast! Except for a few measures in the middle, I played it with a lot of control, though. Definately the best I ever played it.

Let me tell you, I got such a "pianist's high" after the audition! I was so excited. I really hope I'm accepted.

But the school! I love Indiana University, and the campus is very beautiful and very, very commercial. I stayed overnight with a friend of mine in his dorm Saturday night, and I got to experience the typical night for a college student: we played computer games, watched T.V., ordered pizza for dinner, and would have gone to the gym to play basketball if the gym hadn't been closed when we got there.

The campus is really beautiful, and the people are really nice. The practice pianos aren't so good, but what should I expect?? .

So now I am home, listening to Gutiérrez's recording of Prokofiev 2nd and 3rd Concertos that arrived over the weekend. Wowzers.

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Oh, what a wonderful piano. Such a gorgeous tone.

The audition was in a big recital hall (Britten), and most, if not all, of the piano faculty was there.

I played Grieg first - very well (probably most of it was the best that I've ever played it). The trills especially came out very nicely.

Then the Beethoven 1st movement up until the end of the false recap. This was pretty good, though I rushed just a tad (nervous rushing). But the middle of the development was really good.

Then Bach Prelude (no fugue). It's been better. I didn't have 100% control, and the presto section was a little messier than usual. But still a pretty good job.


So my teacher was listening outside, and he told me I did a good job. Then, surprisingly, two of the professors caught up to us in the hallway afterwards and told me that they were very impressed, that they remembered my last audition which was 10 months ago (!!!!!!!) and that they were impressed especially by my tremendous "transformation".


So that was my audition. I think it went very well, and we'll find out the results in about 3-4 weeks.

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Originally posted by Requiem Aeternam:
Hey I'm curious sam, what did the sightreading consist of since that's one of the things I'm working on, I've never heard of Mcdowell, can you describe the level of material they expect you to sightread

Originally posted by computerpro3:
And I reiterate, I can read music, just not as well as I'd like to, and I still have two years to improve.

I reiterate, no major conservatory will accept a student who is unable to read music, particularly for a performance degree -- none that I ever heard of, anyway. Last I knew, the audition requirements for piano at any place worth going to included all major and minor scales in all forms, all inversions, various cadences, all arpeggios, progressions, etc, as well as playing pieces from all the major periods, taken from a laundry list of what and what are not acceptable audition pieces to the jury at that school. In other words, you don't walk in and say "guess what? I can play this piece or that piece". They don't care. You have to play what is on the list. Let's tell it like it is. Also, I do not agree with one poster who said that conservatories don't require sightreading at the piano/vocally...I had to sightread even at my backup schools, so don't know where that was that it wasn't required.....also, after you are there, you have to sightread to get into any honors or other non-required performing groups.......any school that would take someone with technical deficits like that would be expecting the student to get up to speed pretty quickly, it is impossible to go through a four year degree-granting program in MUSIC and not be able to sightread. Think of picking up a music history book or theory book and having the thing make no sense to you. Think of having 300 pages of music history or 50 pages of theory to get mastered by the next day. Does a music student who can't read music have a chance at not getting booted out on his rear? I seriously doubt it, and conservatories know this and weed those people out. When I started my undergraduate degree I was told to memorize the faces of the people to the immediate left and right of me in the orientation, because TWO of the three of us would not be there by the end of the first year, most having flunked out. They were not kidding. I have NEVER met a conservatory graduate, "major" or "minor", who can't read music, and I have been out of school for over 25 years, and have met and worked with many musicians all over the world, sorry.

What serious piano teacher worth going to is going to accept a student at college level who cannot come to the studio prepared with the notes? College-level music professors are not babysitters. They are also not interested in teaching people who have perfect pitch and who are basically copying recordings. A teacher who is an ARTIST is interested in refining technique that is already there, helping with faulty technique (the student has to be willing to do what he's told immediately) and working on interpretation, not on notes. I have seen and heard of performance professors throwing music or music stands across the studio or stage for one missed note or one botched passage. I have had friends at conservatory level warned that they were wasting the teacher's time for being even partially unprepared....they expect a lengthy work to be note and fingering perfect, interpretation ready to be worked on, in a week or two.......not a few months. They expect to put a piece in front of a student and have the kid be able to play it at sight, at least passably well, no excuses. At a conservatory, a teacher will pull a piece of music out of a bag and say, let's sightread this, I think it's your next piece. You can't say, "I can't sightread but I will buy the CD on my way home and be ready to play the notes for you in a week, or three weeks, or three months." The teacher's response? "Goodbye."

How can a person who cannot read music hope to take courses like music history, music theory, orchestration, etc., for four years, requirements for getting a degree? Have you ever heard of a music theory examination that allowed students to get someone to point the notes out on the piano, or let the student go home and figure it out on the piano, or have someone sing the example in his ear? I remember taking theory exams in a huge room, just me and the desk, my pencil and 15 pages of WRITTEN instructions followed by WRITTEN examples of notes, cadences, figured basses, whatever, and blank ledger lines just waiting for my answer in four or 8 parts, or whatever. I can't imagine taking those exams as a non sightreader, non-note reader.....Let's get real here.

Finally, assuming a "major" conservatory would accept a student with these glaring deficits, what would be the purpose? Can a person who is not trained in any meaningful way have a concert career when so many pianists who are fine performers as well as true musicians do not? Assuming a career could be started, would it be sustainable on a day to day basis so that a person could make a living? How can a pianist who cannot read/sightread music peform in ensemble or handle an orchestra rehearsal of a concerto? When the conductor says, "let's take it from four before 52", what does that pianist do? A person who cannot read music cannot even teach piano to others and I doubt that any parent would be interested in having his or her child taught by such a person. A person who has not mastered the basic technical requirements of his instrument and who can't read music would have a hard time getting a public school elementary music teaching gig.

One of the main problems in the BUSINESS of music is that the beauty and passion of the subject catapult some people into a dreamland where the hard realities of what is essentially a very competitive job with major technical and knowledge requirements, are overlooked. Not every person who can play the piano, no matter how well, can be a working career musician who makes his living from this. This is a truth that needs to be broached by the student's teacher ("is it likely in your professional opinion as a musician and pianist that I am fit/on track/could get a music degree and become a professional pianist/general music teacher/private piano teacher?" is the question that should be asked, and the teacher should be frank and realistic in response) and also understood and embraced by the student himself/herself. Conservatory degrees are quite expensive and a waste of money to a student who 1) will not be able to make a living from music afterwards (assuming one is not independently wealthy and needs to work) 2) may be faced with paying off huge student loans in the future for a degree that will not sustain the payment of those loans.

For some, music should be an avocation, not a vocation, a minor, not the whole enchilada. The responsible teacher points this out.

You need to ASK YOUR TEACHER NOW whether in her professional opinion as a piano teacher, you could realistically, given two years continuous work on sight reading, note reading and all the REQUIRED scales, arpeggios, inversions, cadences, played up to speed at your audition, plus having various pieces from all the major musical periods, ready to play, with the correct technique and fingerings, from the list the conservatories will give you.......ask if she thinks that you can do all that in this space of time and be ready for a conservatory audition and have a prayer of winning a spot and listen to the answer. YOU NEED TO ASK HER. If you don't, maybe you already know what she will say and don't want to ask. That is also a choice.

You also need to clarify what your ultimate goal is to be if you do achieve this educational spot. Are you planning a concert career? Planning to teach other people piano? Planning a career as a general music teacher? Pianist in a piano bar? Just for your own enjoyment and plan to work in another field after graduation to pay off your student loans? You have to know why you are doing this and what you expect to get out of it. And you need to be ready. If you go in to an audition and say you can play Rhapsody in Blue and the Rach 3rd but can't do everything you NEED TO DO, it's all over, they won't care and you will be booted out. Just so you know. Knowledge is power.

[...]I haven't posted here in several years, but I have remembered this post and your previous ones for the better part of a decade now. It has been nine years since I made this thread. I think I remembered it partially because I was afraid it was true, but partially because of the frankly off-putting tone that you used.

[...]

I'm glad to read that things have worked out. There was little point, however, in responding to anacrusis' post; a quick check will show that he hasn't posted here since 2008, so chiding him for his tone probably won't be read.

Regards,

I just think a lot of people do not accomplish things because they are too often discouraged to try, that's all. Looking back, there is something to be said for blissful ignorance of difficulty.

I reiterate, no major conservatory will accept a student who is unable to read music, particularly for a performance degree -- none that I ever heard of, anyway. Last I knew, the audition requirements for piano at any place worth going to included all major and minor scales in all forms, all inversions, various cadences, all arpeggios, progressions, etc, as well as playing pieces from all the major periods, taken from a laundry list of what and what are not acceptable audition pieces to the jury at that school.

I'm glad to read that things have worked out. There was little point, however, in responding to anacrusis' post; a quick check will show that he hasn't posted here since 2008, so chiding him for his tone probably won't be read.

Regards,