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Re: Piano Tuning Simulator
Chris Leslie #2364050 12/20/14 11:29 PM
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The next version (5.1) of the Tones piano tuning simulator is available:
Tuning Simulator Application

Most of the requests ask for have been more or less incorporated.
I have tested on my Mac and a PC. Remember that after downloading on a PC, the file needs to be renamed from "Tones.zip" to Tones.jar for it to execute by clicking. Also, Java needs to be installed.

Ryan, I can't made the sound continuous satisfactorily, or make it change pitch during the sounding period. That is too hard for me to do at present. There are however buttons to click to select a 1, 2, 3 or 4 second sustain time.

The notes can be selected by typing on the keyboard. The key assignment is as per your suggestion. The key names are indicated in single quotes next to the graphic of the key. When using the keyboard, the note sounds immediately you release the key. Another press, or mouse click, is required to deselect the note and then it is ready for the next sounding.

There are buttons, also with keyboard assignments, to simulate CM3, m3, M3, M6, octave, both up and down. The button is clicked, or key pressed, each time you want the next interval in the sequence. A 1 second sustain time seems to work well when using these sequences. I note also that you would like 4th and 5ths just as I write this. I can put those in later as well, but let me know what you think of it as it stands.

The size of the window is 1060 x 800. This should be small enough for any modern screen. The window cannot be resized unless I program it to be permanently smaller and then I have trouble fitting everything in.

Kees, you may press the space key to sound the selected notes.

I have introduced a kind of decay. It is only a simple linear decrease in intensity over a 4 second duration. Progressively, the higher partials decay with a steeper slope. It is great fun trying ways to make a more realistic piano sound, but in the end I think this application should concentrate more on hearing beats. A piano-like sound may be another application at some time.

The iH is still from the Young's model. The values themselves were derived from a real piano, but smoothed with an exponential curve fit to make an ideal curve rather than one with arbitrary but real kinks and bumps.
Loading iH values from file, and indeed, file loading and saving tuning files themselves is something I had in the earlier versions but I tried to make this version simpler for now.

Jeff, the extra M6 beat rate bug is gone. Good picking.

See my notes to Kees about the iH curve. The ideal curve is simply scaled proportionally up or down to change the "amount" of iH. The piano-type is determined from the iH at A4 and does not try to change the shape of the curve for different piano types. The "amount" of change per click is larger, and the extreme limits greater, than the previous version. Perhaps what will be needed is a user customisable, loadable and saveable system, but I wanted to keep things simple.

Just for you, Jeff, I put in the D3 3rd partial frequency and it's beat rate with A4.

There was also a bug fix where D3's partials would be incorrect. I wonder if that is what BDB pick up on?

One problem I note on the PC I tested on is that there is a noticeable delay between selecting the note and having it sound. Please let me know how noticeable this is. I don't know how bad it is on other computers, and it is something I can't control at this stage. My Mac seemed to be ok.


Chris Leslie
Piano technician
http://www.chrisleslie.com.au
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Re: Piano Tuning Simulator
Chris Leslie #2364059 12/21/14 12:07 AM
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Cool!!
Successful Download!! thumb

Much thanks,

HW


"Respond intelligently, even to unintelligent treatment."
-Lao Tzu
Re: Piano Tuning Simulator
Chris Leslie #2364736 12/22/14 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris Leslie
.....

See my notes to Kees about the iH curve. The ideal curve is simply scaled proportionally up or down to change the "amount" of iH. The piano-type is determined from the iH at A4 and does not try to change the shape of the curve for different piano types. The "amount" of change per click is larger, and the extreme limits greater, than the previous version. Perhaps what will be needed is a user customisable, loadable and saveable system, but I wanted to keep things simple.

Just for you, Jeff, I put in the D3 3rd partial frequency and it's beat rate with A4.

.....


I haven't downloaded the new version yet, but thanks for the P12 beat.

If you get to playing around with the iH curve more, consider calculating what it would be for C8. Then move D3 up and down, recalculating a logarithmic curve for D3 through A4 based on that fixed value for C8. It should make the relationships between the beating of the intervals more realistic.


Jeff Deutschle
Part-Time Tuner
Who taught the first chicken how to peck?
Re: Piano Tuning Simulator
Chris Leslie #2364981 12/23/14 04:05 PM
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Pretty cool, Mr. Leslie, Thanks.
Can you comment (or give a reference I can look up) about intended use of the graphs on the bottom right? I don't see any numbers on the axes to assign values.

Best regards-


phacke

Steinway YM (1933)
...Working on:
J. S. Bach, Toccata (G minor) BWV 915
(and trying not to forget the other stuff I know)
Re: Piano Tuning Simulator
Chris Leslie #2364992 12/23/14 04:36 PM
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The small plots on the right hand side represent the table data in a simple visual form with D3 at the bottom of the y-axis and A4 at the top.

The particular quantities are those from the table columns, and indicated below the x-axes. The actual values are those in the tables.

The plots do not have more explicit labelling because it is not necessary. They are only meant to give a sense of smoothness and progression of the table data. Try for example to click on "De-tune" and you will see what a poor tuning looks like in terms of visual curves when compared to a smooth progressive tuning.

Often it is not easy to grasp the characteristics of raw tabular numbers unless there is some sort of visual plot.


Chris Leslie
Piano technician
http://www.chrisleslie.com.au
Re: Piano Tuning Simulator
Chris Leslie #2365683 12/26/14 03:21 AM
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Greetings, Mr. Leslie-
Thanks for your information and again, the useful software

Best wishes-


phacke

Steinway YM (1933)
...Working on:
J. S. Bach, Toccata (G minor) BWV 915
(and trying not to forget the other stuff I know)
Re: Piano Tuning Simulator
Chris Leslie #2367394 12/30/14 08:50 PM
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Hi Chris,

I can get the .Jar file to execute on a small HP mini laptop, but can't get it to execute on my desktop. I have tried all the suggestions on the Java website, but no luck. I am running Windows 7. Any ideas?

Is there a help file or user guide for using the simulator once I can get it on my desktop with a larger monitor.

I really like the concept you have developed. I learned aural tuning several years ago.

Great work!
Brent


Brent Musgrave
Piano Tuner-Technician
Re: Piano Tuning Simulator
Chris Leslie #2367398 12/30/14 09:05 PM
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Thanks Brent for having a try.

These is no help file, but most of it should be self explanatory, or obvious with a small prompt. Otherwise, I am more than happy to explain anything over this forum, by PM, or by private email. It is true though that a good knowledge of tuning theory will be a necessary background.

Could you be more explicit about the problem running on your desktop? I suppose you need the larger screen to see everything. Do you get any messages? Remember that in Widows, IE renames the file with a .zip extension which is causes it to not deploy. If that is the case, just rename the file with .jar and it will deploy by a simple click.


Chris Leslie
Piano technician
http://www.chrisleslie.com.au
Re: Piano Tuning Simulator
Chris Leslie #2368072 01/01/15 02:51 PM
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Could you be more explicit about the problem running on your desktop? I suppose you need the larger screen to see everything. Do you get any messages? Remember that in Widows, IE renames the file with a .zip extension which is causes it to not deploy. If that is the case, just rename the file with .jar and it will deploy by a simple click.

Hi Chris,

I am running Windows 7 and downloaded the app with Chrome browser. I uninstalled Java and reinstalled the latest version. There is a Java icon labeled Tones that I click on and the app appears to begin opening but then stops. I will have my son who works in IT to check my desktop and see if he can resolve it. Let me know if you have any other ideas. Thanks for your work in developing a great app.

Happy New Year!
Brent Musgrave


Brent Musgrave
Piano Tuner-Technician
Re: Piano Tuning Simulator
Chris Leslie #2368151 01/01/15 05:38 PM
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I have no suggestion at this stage.

Please keep me informed if you find a solution. Other may also experience this problem and we need to get it resolved.


Chris Leslie
Piano technician
http://www.chrisleslie.com.au
Re: Piano Tuning Simulator
Chris Leslie #2525171 03/27/16 06:43 PM
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I have made a new version of the Piano Tuning Simulator application.

The purpose of this application is for people to practice aural temperament tuning using listening to beats. It may be useful for beginners learning to tune aurally or for experienced tuners wishing to experiment virtually with various temperaments.

In this version the sounds are produced by clicking on the note on the graphic keyboard. The pitch of the note can by incremented or decremented by 0.1 cent intervals by clicking on the red or blue buttons above the relevant keys. The pitch of the notes defaults at the start to theoretical equal temperament with no inharmonicity. The pitch can be scrambled to random values or reset back to zero using the control buttons. The sustain of the sound can be selected as 1, 2, 3 or 4 seconds.

The range of the simulator is from C3 to C5.

There is a small Railsback-type plot to visually represent the current pitches in cents offsets.

The pitches are a composite of the 8 lowest partials for each note and stretched according to that for typical pianos. The inharmonicity can be selected for a spinet, an upright, a grand or for no inharmonicity.

There is a set of toggle buttons that will automatically play the note and the interval above. The intervals being m3rd, M3rd, M6th, P4, P5, octave and M10th.

A table shows the cents offset and frequency for each note as well as the beat rates for each of the intervals at the current pitches and for the current inharmonicity type.

The application will run on Windows, Macs and Unix based computers. It is a single self contained file that will run when you click on the icon provided that Java is installed on your computer. For Windows computers it must be saved and renamed with a .jar extension before it will run with a click. Windows appears to change the extension to .zip for some reason when it downloads and it wont run that way.

The file is perfectly safe and will not harm your computer in any way.

The file can by downloaded here: Piano Tuning Simulator

Last edited by Chris Leslie; 03/27/16 07:06 PM.

Chris Leslie
Piano technician
http://www.chrisleslie.com.au
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