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Re: Can cry or Can't cry while performing publicly [Re: bennevis] #2367348 12/30/14 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by bennevis
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
You are the only person who I've heard say they think Trifonov's emotional displays are not genuine. Your claim that my opinions have no substance is just your opinion although you state it as fact.

You should know by now that all my opinions have a basis in something tangible.

In my case, I've already stated why I believe Lang Lang is genuine - because he plays as per his personality, as can be seen on plenty of YouTube interviews. He is that sort of person, who displays his emotions openly. He also talks like that. He doesn't hold back, regardless of what people think of him. His facial expressions are about as transparent as it's possible to get.

Trifonov on the other hand, is not a person who displays his feelings openly, whether in interviews, or in his general demeanour. (Yes, I've also seen and heard him talk in person, away from the piano). Of course, that doesn't mean that he can't then cry while performing, and be so overcome with emotion that he can't (or won't) control his tears. But.......

I rest my case.........
Just because you base(or think you base) your opinions on something "tangible" doesn't mean other people have to. What may be tangible to you is not necessarily what other people think is the case.

For example, did it not occur to you that LL might "act" in his interviews just the way he acts when performing? That he would do this is incredibly obvious to me. Have you not noticed that when LL plays for a teacher in a master class or with an orchestra his movements and expressions are much less than when he plays solo. That LL is not genuine and is part showman at the piano is not something I made up but an extremely common opinion especially among pro pianists and critics.

What I see/hear in Trifonov interviews is not the same as what you hear. I hear someone who is very emotionally involved in music making. You may trust your impressions of people and call that tangible, but when I do the same thing you object.

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Re: Can cry or Can't cry while performing publicly [Re: pianoloverus] #2367356 12/30/14 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by pianoloverus

For example, did it not occur to you that LL might "act" in his interviews just the way he acts when performing? That he would do this is incredibly obvious to me. Have you not noticed that when LL plays for a teacher in a master class or with an orchestra his movements and expressions are much less than when he plays solo. That LL is not genuine and is part showman at the piano is not something I made up but an extremely common opinion especially among pro pianists and critics.

What I see/hear in Trifonov interviews is not the same as what you hear. I hear someone who is very emotionally involved in music making. You may trust your impressions of people and call that tangible, but when I do the same thing you object.

You're clutching at more straws.
Of course pianists play differently when they have to accommodate other musicians. But in the case of Lang Lang - even in chamber music, when he's having to keep an eye on his fellow musicians, and he's not the 'star' soloist - his facial expressions are still as obvious. (Yes, I've also seen him perform Tchaikovsky, Mendelssohn and Rachmaninov trios where he's out of the audience's limelight, mostly hidden behind his fellow musicians).

Let me direct you to the Chopin Competition 2010, where Trifonov played - before he became famous. Look at him playing emotional music there. That was just four years ago.
Then look at Lang Lang when he was a child.

Do you see what I'm getting at?


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
Re: Can cry or Can't cry while performing publicly [Re: tobevirtuoso] #2367375 12/30/14 06:58 PM
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I agree with both pianoloverus and bennevis. So why argue? Why not give both Trifonov and Lang Lang the benefit of the doubt? Trying to divine the emotional sincerity of any pianist is a pointless exercise. Any performer may be moved to tears at any point in time, but who are we to judge their motivation?

As Heather rightly points out, it's the music that matters.

Re: Can cry or Can't cry while performing publicly [Re: bennevis] #2367449 12/30/14 11:02 PM
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Originally Posted by bennevis
Originally Posted by pianoloverus

I wonder if Argerich, who raved about Trifonov, thinks he's just "middle of the road"(in your negative connotation)? Same question for the NY Times critic who raved about Trifonov's recent concert.

Compare his Tchaik 1 with Argerich's.

Or his Liszt Sonata. Or......


Although we all have our preferences and predilections, I have to say that this is a pretty goddamned good Liszt Sonata, and possibly the best one I've heard in years:

http://vimeo.com/73335683

Re: Can cry or Can't cry while performing publicly [Re: Damon] #2367511 12/31/14 03:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Damon
There is no crying in piano.


Reminds me of the Tom Hanks line in "A League of Their Own". ;-)

Maybe if you're playing at a funeral, but generally, mostly no....



-- J.S.

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Re: Can cry or Can't cry while performing publicly [Re: tobevirtuoso] #2367536 12/31/14 06:10 AM
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I think can/can't is less relevant than should/shouldn't. I would even argue that, for any professional performers, the latter is far more important than the former. I'll explain my reasoning, and then answer the former.

For the purpose of my response, I won't consider social norms or "appropriateness", though it is a valid argument and worth consideration. But for the sake of brevity, I am only looking internally at the performer and what the performer does that influences the performance.

Here, I would contend that all performance is fake. I feel I must state that up front, because it will provide a basis for much of my response. A performer, by necessity, must maintain at least some separation from the subject's emotional state. I will use grief as an example, since it is relevant. If an actor cries on screen, the tears may be real, and at least some of the emotion may be real, but there is still a degree of separation from scenes of overwhelming grief. If the character is paralyzed with grief, the actor needs to portray this, but not be so paralyzed themselves. Therefore, the grief is minimized in the actor's mind to a controllable state. Hence, fake. All performance, in this way, and to varying degrees, is an illusion, and the effectiveness of that illusion determines the quality of the performance.

So, I bring this back to pianistic performance. If tears facilitate the necessary emotional state to properly express the music, then by all means, use them. If, instead, they hinder the performance, then do not use them. If you must actively hold them back, then practice them out of existence. Work and work during practice to distance yourself from the emotional draw of the music until you find the balance point that allows you to convey the musical idea to the best of your ability.


Now, to the original question of can/can't. I can't, but that's not to say that I can't. I specifically choose not to because, in my case, it would hinder the performance. But if the point of the performance were to cry, then yes. I could.

Last edited by Derulux; 12/31/14 06:12 AM. Reason: Grammar

Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.
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