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Recording piano. #2364858 12/23/14 09:41 AM
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fred2974 Offline OP
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Hello i want to record some songs on my piano, but some of them are so hard, that i cannot play it in one piece. Thats why i need a program where i can cut to pieces together without getting the hard and noticeable transition. I know the pc program audacity, but i don't know how to cut it without making it very noticable.
Thx Frederic

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Re: Recording piano. [Re: fred2974] #2364862 12/23/14 09:58 AM
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scorpio Offline
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the most robust solution is practice


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Re: Recording piano. [Re: fred2974] #2364863 12/23/14 09:58 AM
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Frédéric L Offline
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One think you can do is to record the first part. Stop the recordin when the sound is null. Click on the "mute" button of the recorded part. Record the second part. Stop the recording when the sound is null.

Click on the time shift button (in the group of 6 buttons at the right of the record button, the button with a double arrow), and shift the second part to make it begin at the right moment.

Click again on the "mute" button to make the first part audible.

If the ending, or the begining of a part still make a transition noise, you can select near 1s at the begining or at the ending and select "fade in" ou "fade out" in the "effects" menu to make the part begining or ending with a null level


Yamaha CLP150, Bechstein Digital Grand, Garritan CFX, Ivory II pianos, Galaxy pianos, EWQL Pianos, Native-Instrument The Definitive Piano Collection, Soniccouture Hammersmith, Truekeys, Pianoteq
Re: Recording piano. [Re: fred2974] #2364867 12/23/14 10:05 AM
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Morodiene Offline
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Audacity works very well for this. You just have to zoom in far enough and try to make your cuts happen in spots that are closest to the zero line (lowest volume). To then put two sections together, be sure to crossfade that area to help reduce any pops.

Here are instructions on how to do that:

http://manual.audacityteam.org/man/Creating_a_Crossfade

Of course, the best thing to do is spend some more time practicing and eliminate as much of this need to piece together sections as possible. Also, you can work on finding specific places where you plan to piece together - at rests, fermatas, any place where there will be a break in the sound and make it as seamless as possible.

Another possibility is to record MIDI. You can't do this in Audacity, and I'm not sure what free programs out there are recommended - possibly Reaper. When you record MIDI, you are not recording sound, but what keys were pressed and when and how they were pressed, as well as pedal information. You can delete or move around wrong notes to make them correct (note-wise or timing wise). When you play back MIDI, however, you can use other sounds, or direct it back to use your piano's sounds. MIDI is a bit more complicated to set up, but you get a lot more control that way.


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Re: Recording piano. [Re: fred2974] #2364870 12/23/14 10:18 AM
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Frédéric L Offline
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Reaper is not free, but it is a nice and cheap program. (However it can be downloaded freely for a 60 days evaluation... and I have read that it is still running after 60 days)

We could use Anvil Studio instead. It is free for MIDI editing. We need to pay for audio recording (audio is limited to 1 minute without an add-on)... but we can use it to edit MIDI, and when everything is OK, play with Anvil Studio while recording with audacity.


Yamaha CLP150, Bechstein Digital Grand, Garritan CFX, Ivory II pianos, Galaxy pianos, EWQL Pianos, Native-Instrument The Definitive Piano Collection, Soniccouture Hammersmith, Truekeys, Pianoteq
Re: Recording piano. [Re: fred2974] #2364910 12/23/14 12:17 PM
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emenelton Offline
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Editing a series of recorded sections into a seamless whole is a very difficult process and typically would require a high level of skill. Phrasing, pacing and flow become very exposed.

Re: Recording piano. [Re: fred2974] #2365077 12/23/14 07:13 PM
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fred2974 Offline OP
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Thanks for the quick answers! I will try after Christmas and hopefully come up with a solution.
- Merry Christmas

Re: Recording piano. [Re: fred2974] #2365225 12/24/14 09:02 AM
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here's my method:

if you have a digital piano with a built in track recorder- i use it to record/ save sections of songs. The reason i do this is its a lot easier ( for me) to start over/erase a section when i make a mistake ( i try to play a section "perfectly" before saving it- takes 5-25 "takes" usually for me) on my DP than in my recording device. For a lot of folks this would he an unneeded step.

When i get a section recorded right- i save it as a "song". And then i move on to the next section and so forth. Normally i wind up with 4 to 6 or more sections on a 2-3 minute song.

After i have the recorded MIDI songs completed on my DP- i start to record them as audio tracks on my DAW. For me - because i am old school and like buttons and stuff i can hold- I use a Tascam DP-008 as my audio recorder. I will arm tracks 1/2 for the first section, play the Midi song as audio and record it into the tracks. After i have it "right", i will arm tracks 3/4 and tee up my 2d song section on the DP sequencer. I will back up the DAW to a place i have already recorded in track 1-2 and start recording track 3/4- using the playback of tracks 1/2 to cue me as to a proper start point for recording 3/4. And i go from there. i tend to alternate back and forth from 1/2 to 3/4 throughout the entire song- my DAW has 8 tracks so i could use them all if i wanted to...

After i've completed the song and am satisfied, i save file as WAV and download it by USB to my Macbook. I use Audacity to master.

You obviously could use Audacity for the whole process or recording alternating tracks (I think it has more than two tracks for recording...) and simplify the process.

i did some Christmas recordings this way for friends. I will upload one to box or whatever later and you can see if you notice the transition points.

PS: there is no need for anyone to tell me this is a stupid process. I'm sure there are plenty of easy ways for more tech -savvy types to use. Just find one that works for you. As i get better i will look back at this as a lot of wasted/redundant steps someday (but not yet!). But i think this is a good starter process that is manageable.


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Re: Recording piano. [Re: bfb] #2365233 12/24/14 09:29 AM
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emenelton Offline
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bfb,

That's a good description. It's nice that you responded to a difficult question and answered it with a process that makes sense.

Did you find that at times you would have to go back to rerecord a section and start or end it in a slightly different place to address transition problems?

Re: Recording piano. [Re: emenelton] #2365268 12/24/14 11:46 AM
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Emenelton,

I would always try to end a section where there would be a normal pause in playing- the end of a phrase or verse etc. At the end of that section i would use the sustain pedal for an abnormally long period. this would prevent the next section's audio from starting in that black hole of digital nothingness. You can really notice that if it happens. If there was any bleedover from one set of tracks to the next set i would eliminate that in the mastering process by killing the volume in the earlier track.

It is a great question because that transition is the hardest part to get right and i'm still learning best practices for it. But the main thing i've found is it is unnerving to have spots where there is nothing recorded- it is very noticeable.

EDIT: I have found that its tough to cut out sections or shorten sections of songs using Audacity for one reason - the resonances don't correspond exactly. I tried copying/ pasting an ending phrase of a song to the beginning of the same song. It worked until the transition from the pasted section to the original recorded section. The piano resonances were completely different and very noticeable.

Last edited by bfb; 12/24/14 11:59 AM.

Steinway M; Roland V-Piano; Yamaha P250;
Ivory II Grands, Italian, American D; Galaxy Vintage D; True Keys American; UVI Yamaha C7; Ravenscroft 275; Garritan CFX
Re: Recording piano. [Re: fred2974] #2365276 12/24/14 12:23 PM
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emenelton Offline
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Judicious fading of the last sustained note through the beginning of the next section's first note, so you get some overlap, can some times fix that.

Starting your second section with the last bar and a half or where-ever of the preceding section can also let you shuffle around your 'cut' - or creating a separate cut with the last bar of the preceding and the first bar of the next and paste it in track 5/6 is a strategy as well.

About how long do you spend from start to finish on a 5 minute piece?


Re: Recording piano. [Re: fred2974] #2365292 12/24/14 01:15 PM
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peterws Offline
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there's A FREE PROGRAMME CALLED vIDEOPAD AND A RELATED ONE CALLED WAVEPAD which deals only in audio. I find that it`s best to just play the thing; when you slip up, continue and so on, until it`s finished. Save it all in one go, mistakes as well, as audio if possible. You can then carefully remove the offending errors using Audacity or Wavepad. And still say you did it in one take . . . smile just a BIT naughty!

I usually can`t be arsed removing the mistakes . . .because that`s what you`d get playing live. Better imo to learn to play through them as a damage limitation exercise . .

Last edited by peterws; 12/24/14 01:17 PM.

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Re: Recording piano. [Re: emenelton] #2365364 12/24/14 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by emenelton
Judicious fading of the last sustained note through the beginning of the next section's first note, so you get some overlap, can some times fix that.

Starting your second section with the last bar and a half or where-ever of the preceding section can also let you shuffle around your 'cut' - or creating a separate cut with the last bar of the preceding and the first bar of the next and paste it in track 5/6 is a strategy as well.

About how long do you spend from start to finish on a 5 minute piece?



no idea..... depends on how many variations i record of a section and what i wind up using. I also find that recording/ rerecording is a form of practicing and i tend to get better each take.

for me- because my ear and arranging skills are better than my ability to actually play - i find recording in sections keeps the task small enough to where i can concentrate more on expression and dynamics vs just playing the right notes over a long piece. That is how i compensate for my playing inadequacies. for me, recording creates more player stress than just playing for myself or even others since the occasional wrong note can get lost or disguised in live performance..... but when i record a mistake it is all i will hear....

thanks for the recording tip. always looking for those. i have also thought about just correcting the midi recording through software but haven't gotten very skilled at manipulating the wrong notes.


Steinway M; Roland V-Piano; Yamaha P250;
Ivory II Grands, Italian, American D; Galaxy Vintage D; True Keys American; UVI Yamaha C7; Ravenscroft 275; Garritan CFX

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