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Also posted in tuners/technicians forum.

My piano (48” upright) was moved earlier today and I’m a little freaked out by how it went. A friend told me about this forum so I thought I’d try to get advice here. Maybe the movers really did know what they were doing and pianos can withstand a lot of abuse, but if it wasnt handled properly I want to know so I can plan better for the next move (I move a lot). Here’s the breakdown:

By the time I got to the seller’s house (they were supposed to call me in advance but forgot) they had already maneuvered the piano through the trickiest part—at least two very tight turns and into a narrow hall. I asked the seller how things had gone so far, and she said something about them having to turn the piano on its side and almost upside down multiple times. There weren’t any ties around the piano to keep things like the lid from opening.

As they were getting the piano into position for the next part (moving it down the stairs) they put it through a full flip move (almost like a “piano cartwheel”), turning it completely upside down then back up again, even though there seemed to be ample room in the area at the top of the stairs for them get it into position while keeping it right side up.

My back was briefly turned as it started to be moved down the stairs, and I heard a loud thud. When I turned around, everything looked fine (piano was on the slider/dolly and didn’t look out of position), and they resumed going down the stairs right away, but something happened to cause that noise even though there was no apparent damage to the piano or the seller’s carpeted stairs.

Even though it was 30 degrees outside, they didn’t use any blankets until they put it in the van, and even then they only put blankets on it in areas where it needed padding so it wouldn’t hit against anything hard. They did secure it with ties once in the van.

I followed them back to my house. It was a forty mile drive, and they were practically racing there, going 80mph at some points on the highway, even over bumpy areas. At one point they had to swerve to get into the proper lane in time. They changed lanes a lot to stay in the fastest lane. Keep in mind this was a van, not a truck, and the piano must have been bouncing around quite a bit in there.

Once at my house things seemed to go smoothly, but the layout of my house is so easy that it was almost effortless. While here they still seemed to be in a huge rush—once the piano was in its final position, two of the guys left the house right away and went back to the van without saying bye (or anything), while the third guy had me write the check and sign the receipt before hurriedly leaving. I of course don’t need my piano movers to be friendly or chatty at all, but it felt odd. They were also really young (couldn’t have been older than early twenties).

This was my first time moving a piano, and the best way I can describe my impression of this experience is that it was not at all the careful, slow process I thought it would be, but instead was a very rushed process that involved piano flips, speeding, and other unexpected things. So I guess I’m wondering:
-How much abuse can a piano take during a move? What’s “normal” moving abuse vs. abnormal?
-Is it normal for movers to flip pianos upside down or on their side?
-Is it normal for movers not to use ties when turning a piano upside down or on its side?
-Is it normal for movers not to use blankets during cold temps?
-Do many movers use vans instead of trucks? Is a truck preferable?
-Are there concerns for the safety/integrity of the piano if it’s bouncing around a lot during the drive?
-Do good movers tend to work fast and zoom through the whole process, or do they tend to be slower?
-Any other observations or words of advice?

I want to know all of this because I tend to move at least once every few years, and I need to know what to look out for in the future. Thank you in advance for your help.

—K

Here's some thoughts:
1) You want them to be slow and careful. Slow is a good recipe for a mover to go bankrupt. Their income depends on being able to move a certain number of pianos in a day. The piano movers I've watched were very efficient (I've had pianos moved several times). I wouldn't want a mover to *rush*, but quick and efficient, sure.
2) How they drive on the highway is their business. They're the ones who would get a ticket, not you. It won't hurt your piano at all if they're flying along at 90mph. The piano won't bounce around, it will be securely strapped in place.
3)Moving blankets are used for protecting the finish and cabinet of the piano. It sounds like that's what they were using them for. Nothing can keep your piano warm, if that's what you were hoping. Yes the climatic shifts could cause it to need a tuning.
4) Grand pianos move on their side - that's how it is done. I'm not as sure about what they do with uprights when they need to negotiate tight turns. I know I have seen them laid on their side before in those situations.
5) Vibe from the movers: I think it's reasonable to expect the movers to give you a feeling that your piano is going to be safely transported. Sounds like they might have failed on that one.
6) Age of movers: I've seen some older movers, but this is heavy, physical work. Men in their 20s sounds reasonable.

Welcome to the forum!

One more thought:

Van vs. truck: vans ride smoother than trucks. I've seen piano movers use trucks, trailers, and vans.

The same sort of gyrations were done to my upright to get it through the crooks and nooks in my hallway.

Pianos don't make their own heat so there's none to keep in with insulators. Even at 30 degrees, from the house to the van is not a concern.

Kurt

Pianos weigh hundreds of pounds--the movers don't flip them upside down for kicks. One thing you didn't itemize was any damage, so I'm assuming it survived the move intact. Enjoy it. Welcome to PianoWorld.

I know this is your baby, but this sounds like a normal move. My concert grand was delivered in less than 10 minutes. I was really amazed at how fast they got things done. Turning your piano on the side/back won't hurt it. It may be good to strap down the hammers in this type of move, but it's not necessarily that common to do so.

Honestly, it sounds like you had a pretty professional move. While it sounds like their bedside manner wasn't great, remember these guys are movers, not salesmen. They don't need to ingratiate themselves to you, just get your piano moved.

After a few weeks, you'll want to have a tech in to tune it. Ask them to inspect the moving parts—particularly the action—to see if anything is amiss, just in case.

No matter what, enjoy your piano! Pianos are wonderful things.

Were these "piano movers" or just movers who also move pianos.

I'm not sure real "piano movers" can be found everywhere. My own was delivered by the seller, so I didn't have toseek one out.

Yeah- it sounds like they did a pretty shoddy job. (as opposed to a Bang Up job? ironic huh)

Driving 80 mph with something as heavy as a piano to get out of balance quickly and become fatal in a crash is a stupid sign of these hard driving, breaking the colts times I think. And doesn't consider those they put at danger in their eternal quest to keep moving at the speed of business. Bachmam Turner Ovderdrive bridge call it I guess.

Taking Care of Business to the breakneck detriment of all I think.

I've been thinking about this more as I did some yard work. I think you should at least make complaint to the movers, unless you expect to use them again. And if you do, even more reason.

Perhaps they just don't really understand the internal nature of pianos- to them it may just be another large bed or bookcase. You could explain the peg board and the concern for piano holding as much tune

in it's physical treatment and the concerns of extreme climate change on it. then they'll possibly do a better job of moving pianos in the future.

Hello Wisconsin! We're all Foreman now!
But the foreman is never concerned about the bigger picture. The movers here are never worried over the shop that has to change their tires and brake pads constantly and rebuild the motor on the van, There's already a shop foreman for that. I have a garbage truck servicing facility and parking lot down the street and they work on these trucks until two am quite often- diesel trucks idling and roaring-

and then the next shift arrives starting at 4:30 every week day, seeming as if they are trying to make as much noise as they can. The trains blare all night and day in a rather large area with no thought to the quality of life for thousands and thousands of people living there and further stressed out by it all.
Ay Caramba!

The image of a heavy piano in the back of a van moving in NASCAR envisioned freeway traffic perhaps gives to meaning to the name "spinet piano"....

More bricks for Liberace!

I have had many pianos moved and I have not enjoyed watching the process at all. However, they never damaged or scratched any of my instruments. It sounds like they did their job correctly in your case. Don't worry; be happy!

Our moving experience was much different. The movers would not move it under 50 degrees for fear of damaging the soundboard, they wrapped it in blankets and put it on a trolley. They moved it very carefully over our sidewalk, slowly and gently. They treated it like a fine lady. It was never once bumped, and they set it up ever so gently too. Of course it was a parlor grand, but I'd think they should be careful with any piano. If they'd have handled my grand like your piano was handled I would be very upset!

I just reread my post above and was struck with a thought- the irony is that my own piano was originally sold by a dealer in Daytona Beach, which is like "the" NASCAR venue.

Don't ask me. I'm from Indianapolis....

I really appreciate all of this advice and have read it over several times. It means a lot to get this feedback. I was getting paranoid that all the unusual (well, unusual to me) maneuvers and jostling it was put through could have caused some damage to the inside of the piano—the parts I have no ability to inspect and evaluate on my own. A technician is coming for tuning in a few weeks, and I'll make sure to have him inspect everything internally.

I did do my research before choosing this company. They are solely a piano moving company, are well reviewed online, and were recommended by a local technician. They are insured, though I didn't inquire as to different types of insurance and will do that in the future. They were also significantly more expensive than the other quotes I got, but I went with them because they seemed to be the most qualified and experienced.

I may have been expecting something different from what I observed because the technician who recommended them said they were better than other piano movers due to them taking their time and being extra careful during every step of the move, and what I observed didn't line up with that description. BUT that could just be unrealistic and impractical expectations on my part. What I expected was similar to the experience pianosNpreschooler described, and I'm not surprised that his/her movers were super careful with a piano of that value and quality.

Ordinary furniture movers are OK for uprights.

For grands, you need real piano movers who know how to take the legs and pedals apart, and more important, put them back together. They also have the special padded boards that strap to the bass side of the grands, in a variety of sizes.

Watching your piano being moved is kind of like watching sausage being made! Your move is not normal, IMO. Here's how it should go:

First the lyre comes off and is wrapped in padded blankets and taped up.
Next, the lid comes off and is wrapped in padded blankets and taped up.
The music rest is removed and wrapped up.
The left leg (on the hinge, or straight side) comes off. Two guys hold up the piano while the third removes the leg.
That corner of the piano is carefully lowered to the ground.
A skid board is positioned and the piano is tipped on its side onto the skid board.
The remaining legs come off. All legs are wrapped in moving blankets
The entire piano is wrapped up in blankets and taped BEFORE it is strapped to the skid board!
Skilled movers should have on hand various dolly's, rollers, boards, blocks, forearm forklift straps, etc for the actual moving part.

Maybe this homemade video of my grand arriving home will interest you.
Merry Christmas, and enjoy your instrument!

Grandpiano transportation

Piano Brazil,

I think the difference is that one is a grand piano with a straight shot to a ground floor and the moving of an upright through a hallway and down stairs. One could hope that the movers would put on a better show of treating the piano like an antique ceramic like in your video but the truth is that pianos are pretty robust and there's no indication that Kaustin's piano was damaged after it's gyrations just as mine wasn't after its own perilous journey down my narrow hall with a dogleg and a 90 degree turn into the music room.

regards,

Kurt

I can't believe the one guy was wearing sandals, not very dependable footwear when moving a piano.

My shuddering thoughts, exactly; and not secured sandals but "flip-flops": an invitation to injury.

Regards,

His is an upright, not a grand.
Even for a grand, the order you are describing isn't normal. Most grands are pivoted on the lyre, so it isn't removed first (some antique grands aren't designed for this and those would be an exception). Also, many movers do not take off the lid on a grand.

While newer pianos can tolerate "lyre tipping" this is a short cut. I have full time piano movers and they never tip on a lyre. We will use a specialized piano truck that is easier than lyre tipping and much easier than holding up a piano to remove a leg.

Estonia Piano has published a video of a customer receiving his piano and at 3:15 or so you can see the best way to tip a piano. This is less effort for the mover and safer for the piano:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZZO2Ls5pYM

My 2 cents,