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Hailun upright vs Boston 118S+prices, NEED HELP
#2359060 12/06/14 10:54 PM
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Hi! I need help for our first piano purchase. My Husband and I decided to buy a studio piano for our 6 yo daughter. We are considering a Boston 118S and the Hailun 116 and the Hailun HU1.
I Personally have not a lot of knowledge on the US market as I'm French.
Is the Boston 118S (made in Indonesia) so much better than the Hailuns?
The Hailun dealer offered the Hailun 116 at 5.4K (including taxes, shipping, tuning etc) and the HU1P at 6.3K.
Are those prices good?
They seem a little to high to me considering both the blue book and the piano buyer book.
Is the Hailun HU1P significantly better than the 116 studio?
I heard a lot of postive comments on the HU5P but not a lot on the HU1P.
Hope someone can help me...

Re: Hailun upright vs Boston 118S+prices, NEED HELP
clairefra #2360257 12/10/14 01:14 PM
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Where are you located? Prices tend to be better in major metro areas. Are you planning to buy new or used?

Re: Hailun upright vs Boston 118S+prices, NEED HELP
clairefra #2360270 12/10/14 01:42 PM
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All 3 of those Hailun models are quite good. The HU1P has some construction differences from the 116 (from when they made the change to the "P" models) as well as a height/size advantage. The Piano Buyer (look around this site for an ad to click on) can give you some pricing advice as it relates to the US. It is a helpful guide but does not apply to all markets.

If the Boston 118S cost more, it is generally because of pricing/marketing/differences in discounting, not because it is of any better construction or design. While the Boston 118S a good, robust piano, I do believe those Hailun models are objectively better in design and construction. Hailun's competitive pricing is generally considered a bonus.

The better Boston 118S pianos that I played were warm and pleasant, but sometimes they are dull in their tone. The Hailun's also vary, but can be nice either brighter or warmer, depending on your preference.

Last edited by PianoWorksATL; 12/10/14 01:44 PM. Reason: Clarity

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Re: Hailun upright vs Boston 118S+prices, NEED HELP
DaveT #2360335 12/10/14 04:57 PM
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I'm in a major metro Area on the east coast and I'm considering only new. According to the pianobuyer for the HU1P with SMP of 7046 I should be able to buy the piano for 4900 at the best (is this with shipping and taxes included or not?).
In the mean time the dealer went down to 5.6K for the HU1P saying that it is an awesome deal. Is now a good price with shipping and first tuning included? I would feel more comfortable with 5 k.
I read posts of people buying the same model 2 years ago for 4.5k
Really need to know as I'm going for the final deal in the next couple days...Thx

Re: Hailun upright vs Boston 118S+prices, NEED HELP
clairefra #2360372 12/10/14 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by clairefra
I'm in a major metro Area on the east coast and I'm considering only new. According to the pianobuyer for the HU1P with SMP of 7046 I should be able to buy the piano for 4900 at the best (is this with shipping and taxes included or not?).
In the mean time the dealer went down to 5.6K for the HU1P saying that it is an awesome deal. Is now a good price with shipping and first tuning included? I would feel more comfortable with 5 k.
I read posts of people buying the same model 2 years ago for 4.5k
Really need to know as I'm going for the final deal in the next couple days...Thx


I do not know the market you are in to determine what the applicable discount from SMP is the going rate, but let's just use your number and you think you should be able to buy the piano for 4900 (which is a 30% discount - the highest from the range - remember the range is 10%-30%.) I believe if you read the explanations in the Piano Buyer's Guide, it will say these prices are before tax and delivery.

So take 4900 * your tax rate, let's assume 7.5% = 367.50.

Delivery is the wild card - this can range from a couple of hundred dollars to $$$$ depending on where they have to bring the piano. (Think steps, corners to turn around, elevators, etc.)
So take your 4900 + tax + delivery and you will be at a minimum of ~$5500.

In my opinion you are getting a very nice deal.

Now, forget about the dollars, do you like the piano?

Jonathan

Re: Hailun upright vs Boston 118S+prices, NEED HELP
clairefra #2360385 12/10/14 07:54 PM
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The SMP price is just for the piano. Shipping costs vary, as does (of course) tax and other "perks" like adjustable benches, tuning and service contracts, humidity control systems, etc. Those ancillary costs are too variable to list as part of a pricing guide.


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Re: Hailun upright vs Boston 118S+prices, NEED HELP
clairefra #2360411 12/10/14 09:53 PM
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Thank you Jonathan.
To be honest my shipping it is super easy: 10 miles, 4 steps...
There are no sales taxes.
The other consideration that makes me want a very good deal is that the dealer has no Hailun currently in the showroom and I'm buying the piano "on faith". I tried it in the music school of my daughter and I liked it but I will not listen to mine before being committed.
What is yours or others opinion on the topic?

Re: Hailun upright vs Boston 118S+prices, NEED HELP
clairefra #2360612 12/11/14 01:41 PM
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clairefra,

Not sure where you are buying with no sales tax, but no big deal. Take the taxes off and you still are getting a good deal. Even with 10 miles and 4 steps delivery would still run at least $200 (that is the very low end - most likely the true cost will be more than that.)

The bigger issue in my mind is that you have not even seen or played the piano. You are just looking at the price. If possible, come to a price agreement with the dealer with the option of not purchasing that piano until you have seen the actual piano you would be bringing home.

Does the dealer have the Boston in the showroom?

Also, since the dealer does not have the piano in the showroom, will they be doing any form of piano prep before it would be delivered?

Jonathan

Re: Hailun upright vs Boston 118S+prices, NEED HELP
clairefra #2360677 12/11/14 06:24 PM
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Some music schools, maybe more on the college level, might spend quite a bit of tech time/money prepping the pianos. So the one at your daughter's school might not represent the one you'll get since dealers usually don't do much prep in this price range.

If I were you I would go to a Kawai dealer ask for their best price for a K-300 and then a Yamaha dealer for their best price on the U1. Tell them you're about to buy the Hailun so they'll give you more competitive price. From what I've seen in Cali the Hailun/Chinese pianos sell for 25~30% less than a Yamaha - but I was more looking at grands. In my market a Yamaha U1 sells for $6000 with a bench, tuning and delivery and K-300's are a little less than that.

Re: Hailun upright vs Boston 118S+prices, NEED HELP
BornInTheUSA #2360706 12/11/14 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by michaelha
Some music schools, maybe more on the college level, might spend quite a bit of tech time/money prepping the pianos. So the one at your daughter's school might not represent the one you'll get since dealers usually don't do much prep in this price range.

If I were you I would go to a Kawai dealer ask for their best price for a K-300 and then a Yamaha dealer for their best price on the U1. Tell them you're about to buy the Hailun so they'll give you more competitive price. From what I've seen in Cali the Hailun/Chinese pianos sell for 25~30% less than a Yamaha - but I was more looking at grands. In my market a Yamaha U1 sells for $6000 with a bench, tuning and delivery and K-300's are a little less than that.
Hello Michael,

I feel your post is very confusing for the OP. In the first part, it is the very, very small minority of music schools that "spend quite a bit of tech time prepping" a studio upright. In the second part, the pianos you suggested when sold as such steep discounts...are unboxed and delivered, not prepped. 3rd, the OP is on the East Coast where reports of prices even close to that are rare. I believe you meant well, but I'm concerned that the message has an opposite effect.

My question for the OP is...how active is your Hailun dealer? Some popular models do occasionally end up on back order, but an active dealer would not hesitate to bring in the HU-1P in Polish Ebony, asking for perhaps a reasonable down payment on a pre-negotiated price to get the next one in. Special finishes require more down payment, or sometimes pay up front. An inactive dealer may hesitate and charge more for the hassle, preferring instead to sell you something else.

Twice you asked about price to include taxes but then said there is no sales tax. Is there another tax? Please re-read the price advice from The Piano Buyer...it deliberately speaks in ranges. "In most cases, discounts from the Suggested Maximum Price range from 10 to 30 percent. This does not mean that if you try hard enough, you can talk the salesperson into giving you a 30 percent discount. Rather, it reflects the wide range of prices possible in the marketplace due to the many factors discussed earlier. For budgeting purposes only, I suggest figuring a discount of about 15 or 20 percent." from The Piano Buyer.

I encourage you to work with your dealer as best as you can, but a Hailun at ~25% off would still be less than a Boston 118S at ~25% off. Was the Boston dealer's offer anywhere close to that? wink


Sam Bennett
PianoWorks - Atlanta Piano Dealer
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Pre-Owned: Yamaha, Kawai, Steinway & other fine pianos
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Re: Hailun upright vs Boston 118S+prices, NEED HELP
clairefra #2360715 12/11/14 08:52 PM
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Originally Posted by clairefra
^...ç the dealer has no Hailun currently in the showroom and I'm buying the piano "on faith". I tried it in the music school of my daughter and I liked it but I will not listen to mine before being committed.
What is yours or others opinion on the topic?


I would be very hesitant to buy a piano that I had not tried, even after having played another of the same make and model. Each piano is distinctive, made up of parts that are subject to natural variants, so that playing the same make and model of two pianos, side by side, can lead one to distinctly prefer one over the other. What do you know about the age and condition of the piano in your daughter's school that would so convince you that it is a benchmark to buy a piano sight-unseen, action-untried and sound-unheard?

At all costs, make sure that you have a distinct agreement with the dealer that, when the piano is delivered, prepped and tuned, you have the option to refuse it if there is something about it that doesn't satisfy you and can't be adjusted to your satisfaction.

Let me add, so that you don't think I'm being patronizing, that I've been there, done that, to my frustration and regret (not with my current or previous Estonia, however!)

Regards,


BruceD
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Re: Hailun upright vs Boston 118S+prices, NEED HELP
BruceD #2360726 12/11/14 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by BruceD
... Each piano is distinctive, made up of parts that are subject to natural variants, so that playing the same make and model of two pianos, side by side, can lead one to distinctly prefer one over the other...

At all costs, make sure that you have a distinct agreement with the dealer that, when the piano is delivered, prepped and tuned, you have the option to refuse it if there is something about it that doesn't satisfy you and can't be adjusted to your satisfaction.
BruceD gives good advice, and thankfully Hailun has a nationwide policy for their customers.

Hailun Dream Assurance

Please read, but in short, Hailun backs up the sound and prep for the piano that arrives to you, beyond the warranty coverage. Originally, the policy only covered grands, but now it is grands and uprights. I don't know of anything like it from any other brand.


Sam Bennett
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Re: Hailun upright vs Boston 118S+prices, NEED HELP
PianoWorksATL #2360770 12/12/14 12:17 AM
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You may be right about few schools prepping the uprights, but my point is no two pianos are the same like BruceD said and as we all understand very well here. I read the Dream Assurance - that is a pretty nice policy. I would still prefer to test the actual one I was receiving since I've played pianos of the same model where one I wanted to take home with me, and the other I didn't. But if it's impossible then the Dream Assurance policy would definitely come in handy - it would still be a big hassle to be put in that situation where you have to waste you and the dealer's time and manpower. Seems more efficient for everyone if you could just test it out first.

Re the pricing. Like I said, that pricing is in California so forget the actual price, but just think about it in relative terms.

Re: Hailun upright vs Boston 118S+prices, NEED HELP
PianoWorksATL #2360950 12/12/14 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by PianoWorksATL

Twice you asked about price to include taxes but then said there is no sales tax. Is there another tax? Please re-read the price advice from The Piano Buyer...it deliberately speaks in ranges. "In most cases, discounts from the Suggested Maximum Price range from 10 to 30 percent. This does not mean that if you try hard enough, you can talk the salesperson into giving you a 30 percent discount. Rather, it reflects the wide range of prices possible in the marketplace due to the many factors discussed earlier. For budgeting purposes only, I suggest figuring a discount of about 15 or 20 percent." from The Piano Buyer.


This is a key point.

The range is due to varying costs to dealers in differing markets such as higher rents, insurance and other varying costs of doing business in the locale.


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Re: Hailun upright vs Boston 118S+prices, NEED HELP
clairefra #2360979 12/12/14 04:07 PM
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Quote

I would be very hesitant to buy a piano that I had not tried, even after having played another of the same make and model.


This depends on the dealer and his commitment to you.

We sell a fair number of pianos [mostly Estonia..] "sight unseen" simply because there's usually very limited stock to show.

If dealer is willing to go out of his way to please his customers and hiring top techs [which will always 'cost' more..] buying 'sight unseen' is a much lesser risk.

In fact, it's hardly a 'risk' at all..

Norbert





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Re: Hailun upright vs Boston 118S+prices, NEED HELP
clairefra #2361012 12/12/14 05:36 PM
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Thanks Everyone for all the comments! Very useful!

Michael: the prices you are saying are crazy! My Yamaha dealer would never leave a U1 for 6000. According to that my Hailun price is not a very good deal at all... but anyway everything ere is expensive.

Norbert: At the end the dealer went down to 5400 (incl ship, tax, tuning) and I will try the piano before the final purchase. If I don't like it I can look for a different one. Hopefully I will as I liked the other 3 HU1-P I heard.

How can I make sure that the piano receives a good preparation? what is exactly the prep of a piano?

In your opinion should I try to go Lower in the price?

Re: Hailun upright vs Boston 118S+prices, NEED HELP
clairefra #2361014 12/12/14 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by clairefra

In your opinion should I try to go Lower in the price?


If you do not care if they stay in business.

Why not ask that they give it to you for free? (Including taxes - that may or may not exist.)

Re: Hailun upright vs Boston 118S+prices, NEED HELP
clairefra #2361021 12/12/14 05:52 PM
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Ok Jonathan I got it!!! Don't be so sensitive... My kids are asking why I'm laughing

Re: Hailun upright vs Boston 118S+prices, NEED HELP
clairefra #2361042 12/12/14 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by clairefra
Thanks Everyone for all the comments! Very useful!

Michael: the prices you are saying are crazy! My Yamaha dealer would never leave a U1 for 6000. According to that my Hailun price is not a very good deal at all... but anyway everything ere is expensive.

Norbert: At the end the dealer went down to 5400 (incl ship, tax, tuning) and I will try the piano before the final purchase. If I don't like it I can look for a different one. Hopefully I will as I liked the other 3 HU1-P I heard.

How can I make sure that the piano receives a good preparation? what is exactly the prep of a piano?

In your opinion should I try to go Lower in the price?


Assuming Yamaha U1's go for about $7000 in your market then $5400 out the door is about right. Don't nickel and dime then to the point where they hate you since you'll very likely have to deal with them to service the piano, warranty, etc.


Re: Hailun upright vs Boston 118S+prices, NEED HELP
Jonathan Alford #2361116 12/12/14 11:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Jonathan Alford
Originally Posted by clairefra

In your opinion should I try to go Lower in the price?


If you do not care if they stay in business.

Why not ask that they give it to you for free? (Including taxes - that may or may not exist.)


Does the dealer worry if someone pays full MSRP for a piano? The piano industry created this business model. They made the bed, they can lay in it.


Gary

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