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Re: Rachmaninov Sonatas - 1 vs 2? [Re: iObsessed] #2355634
11/27/14 10:28 PM
11/27/14 10:28 PM
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not somewhere over the rainbow
Pogorelich. Offline
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Well then we can agree to disagree!

And of course I'd never unfriend you smile



"The eyes can mislead, the smile can lie, but the shoes always tell the truth."
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Re: Rachmaninov Sonatas - 1 vs 2? [Re: Pogorelich.] #2355644
11/27/14 11:05 PM
11/27/14 11:05 PM
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Posts: 9,328
New York City
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Polyphonist Offline
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It seems Jason is unable to keep the snarky attitude (about Rachmaninoff) out of his posts.

I will let other members judge for themselves what this demonstrates about the validity of his opinions.


Regards,

Polyphonist
Re: Rachmaninov Sonatas - 1 vs 2? [Re: iObsessed] #2355664
11/28/14 01:11 AM
11/28/14 01:11 AM
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not somewhere over the rainbow
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not somewhere over the rainbow
I know what I know, and that's all I know.



"The eyes can mislead, the smile can lie, but the shoes always tell the truth."
Re: Rachmaninov Sonatas - 1 vs 2? [Re: iObsessed] #2355665
11/28/14 01:19 AM
11/28/14 01:19 AM
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In college, I knew someone who worked tirelessly on the First Sonata. It was nightmarishly difficult to play and especially to memorize, because there is so much repetition, and I think he would agree with me that there was little to gain from all of the effort he put into it. It was all still just a bunch of empty bombast; only the middle movement had any real payoff.

The Second Sonata can also be empty bombast in the wrong hands, and this is particularly true of Rachmaninoff's "reduced" 1931 version; he made nonsense out of several regions of the sonata, a mistake he repeated with his Fourth Concerto later. But if you can subsume the enormous technical demands of the original 1913 sonata, it can be made into an arresting and emotionally devastating piece of music.

Re: Rachmaninov Sonatas - 1 vs 2? [Re: Polyphonist] #2355676
11/28/14 02:37 AM
11/28/14 02:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Polyphonist
I will let other members judge for themselves what this demonstrates about the validity of his opinions.
Good! I'm sure we're capable of evaluating Jason's contributions here without you telling us what to think.


Du holde Kunst...
Re: Rachmaninov Sonatas - 1 vs 2? [Re: iObsessed] #2355758
11/28/14 10:57 AM
11/28/14 10:57 AM
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"You sure about that?"


Yeah.

Re: Rachmaninov Sonatas - 1 vs 2? [Re: iObsessed] #2355788
11/28/14 12:53 PM
11/28/14 12:53 PM
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Brendan Offline
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IMO, they both have problems as compositions and can sound truly dreadful in the wrong hands. I've heard performances of both that sounded like people were playing with frying pans for hands. With the right player, they can be truly magisterial works, but lately it seems that those are few and far between.

I agree with jeffreyjones that the 1931 version of the second sonata makes little sense, particularly in the first movement.


Re: Rachmaninov Sonatas - 1 vs 2? [Re: Brendan] #2355820
11/28/14 02:31 PM
11/28/14 02:31 PM
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The only reason I can think of as to why most pianists still prefer the 1931 version (currently in a ratio of 10:1 1931:1913, when the various conflations of both versions are put into the 1931 category) is that it's far easier.

Though of course, pianists won't admit that's the real reason.... wink

One only has to listen to Zoltán Kocsis's fabulous recording to hear what's missing in the 1931 version, or the various permutations that pianists come up with, which seem to be based on whether the extra difficulty of the reinstated section(s) is worth the extra effort required.


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
Re: Rachmaninov Sonatas - 1 vs 2? [Re: iObsessed] #2355830
11/28/14 03:24 PM
11/28/14 03:24 PM
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There is one more version to choose - the Horowitz's version, which was approved by Rachmaninoff too. I'm playing his version now, it has nearly the same difficulty as 1913 (Horowitz's left more from version from 1913 rather than 1931). But of course "nearly" mean it's easier, there are a few cuts, but I think that they improve this piece. I didn't choose his version, because it's easier - there is little left to learn to upgrade it to this from 1913. The version from 1931 is so stripped and it seems to be easy after all work I had to do to just learn the notes...

Here is some paper about it: http://upetd.up.ac.za/thesis/available/etd-11052007-142018/unrestricted/dissertation.pdf (no, it's not mine, I just found it in the internet).

Re: Rachmaninov Sonatas - 1 vs 2? [Re: vevurka] #2355832
11/28/14 03:30 PM
11/28/14 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by verqueue

There is one more version to choose - the Horowitz's version, which was approved by Rachmaninoff too. I'm playing his version now, it has nearly the same difficulty as 1913 (Horowitz's left more from version from 1913 rather than 1931).

Don't forget, there's more than one Horowitz version too.


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
Re: Rachmaninov Sonatas - 1 vs 2? [Re: iObsessed] #2355833
11/28/14 03:34 PM
11/28/14 03:34 PM
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His recordings reaffirm that, but I found only score for one of them.

Re: Rachmaninov Sonatas - 1 vs 2? [Re: iObsessed] #2355958
11/28/14 08:59 PM
11/28/14 08:59 PM
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"Yeah."

Well, good for you I guess! Certainly wasn't easy for me..



"The eyes can mislead, the smile can lie, but the shoes always tell the truth."
Re: Rachmaninov Sonatas - 1 vs 2? [Re: bennevis] #2356010
11/28/14 11:52 PM
11/28/14 11:52 PM
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Originally Posted by bennevis

Don't forget, there's more than one Horowitz version too.

Please tell me this isn't going to be as complex as the myriad versions of Carmen and Don Carlo!

Not worth our time, surely? smokin



Jason
Re: Rachmaninov Sonatas - 1 vs 2? [Re: argerichfan] #2358549
12/05/14 02:37 PM
12/05/14 02:37 PM
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"Yeah."

Well, good for you I guess! Certainly wasn't easy for me..
_________________________


I never said it was easy I just said it was easier than the 2nd Sonata.

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