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I went to the shop yesterday with my IEMs. I was kinda surprised that my C#5 issue was less pronounced and I can live with it, and to my hearing didn't find any issue/objection with the F2/G2/B4/A4 notes. I did find on piano #2 a particular chord sounded really really odd but not on piano #1. Oh well, win some lose some...

I found that tracks/songs don't loop (or I can't get it to work) hence you can't lay a repetitive background tune to accompany.



There was a HPi-5 and F-20 at the shop. I do not know what PHA key action variant they have, it feels lighter and I do not like it. I also tried a Casio AP-420/PX-130, Kawai ES6/KDP80, and I find all of them a bit too light and/or noisy for my liking.

I have also tried Yamaha P-105/CLP-535/545 at some other shop few weeks back...the 105 is on the lighter side. The CLPs are heavier and between them, 545 feels lighter than the 535. I think Roland's PHA4 Standard is about the same weight and probably slots in between the 535 and 545; I'll have to visit them again to be sure but I have no such need. After a few minutes playing, I don't notice so much the key actions hence I'd be happy with the F130R or the CLPs.

Anyway IMHO, the PHA4 is not at all lightweight, and I think it is good enough for intermediate to advanced level learning/playing. However, for younger fingers something lighter with more fun factors maybe a better first purchase, and the F130R/RP401R I'd say a good upgrade. They remain a good first piano for most people.

In this part of the woods, the F130R is only US$100-150 more than the Casio PX-350 hence I think Roland is the better value.

Mcoll,
The Roland has the PHA4 standard action (with escapement and ivory feel) which I've not played (my Roland RD800 has the PHA4 concert action, which is their top of the line action currently). I don't know how different the feel of the roland concert action is compared to their standard action, but I absolutely love the action on my RD-800. If the actions are similar in feeling, as some here have suggested, I suspect I would prefer the roland.

But with that said, I actually have played the privia pianos and I find the action on them to be really good as well. The privia keyboards also have the advantage of being very light in weight (therefore much more easily portable).

The thing is, preferences for actions are so personal that my opinion really doesn't matter in terms of a decision you might make. If you're considering both models, try to find them and test them out. That's really the only way you can find out which action you prefer.

Warm Regards

I have had the F130R for about a week. My opinion is that the action surprised me in a very good way. I cannot say that I have played much in recent years, but the action feels close to an acoustic, and in such a small form factor. I love it!

Also, it just sounds great (using headphones). I wanted a digital so that I could learn music and screw around without bugging the flatmate. The 3d sound on the headphones is very good. I should have learned by now, but still when playing I feel I have to check to make sure the piano is in fact not playing the music out loud. I have not played much without the headphones, so I cannot express an opinion on how the speakers work. The 3d effect can be adjusted so the piano sounds further away (closer to your hands) which is neat.

I had tried out a few of the lower end digital pianos in the past (YDP142 and P155 I think) and was underwhelmed and did not pull the trigger despite having such an itch. The itch came back and so I took a shot in the dark with the F130R because I wanted a piano, the reviews were generally positive, and Costco had a good deal on it ($1199 versus the standard $1299). I am not disappointed.

I played with a few of the additional sounds. They are fun. I considered picking up an iPad to use Roland Piano Partner. I cannot seem to find a legend in any of the material that came with the piano that show the various sounds that can be played, other than the various piano sounds themselves. Ultimately, I do not think it is worth several hundred dollars just so I can select the tone on a tablet. I do not understand why there is not a simple android app that allows this same functionality given the prevalence of smart phones. I do not have an iPhone, so I cannot express an opinion on how those apps work.

Hi Wanderstomp.

The list of tones can be found on page 19 of your owners manual.

Tones 41-305 are all the standard 256 GM tones available on many instruments.

Hope this helps.

Jay

Hi Jay, Thanks, found it. For other users, there may be a few languages worth of the manual between page 18 and "19".

Jay,

I would be greatful for your comments on the following:

I've stuck with the f130r and bought a better quality set of headphones. These improved the sound. However I then read David w's post where he wrote:-

"I tried both F130R/RP401R over the weekend, and found a peculiar resonance/harmonic 'ringing tune' that is very noticeable when C#5 is held longer. This is only evident with the main piano using headphone. I'm now very conscious of it, it detracts playing and annoys me no end as I was very keen on getting this DP. Its not noticeable with the speakers, and not present with other notes or other piano samples."

This is exactly what I find uncomfortable with the f130.

Is this a characteristic or "feature" of the way Roland model the tones or is it a problem with the design?

I find that this problem is not always apparent but when it do hear it it becomes really uncomfortable.

I'm also noticing that when playing through the speakers there is a constant and very noticeable hiss. I'm guessing the amplifier gain is permanently at full whack and the volume control merely controls the input from the tone generators. Could this be a fault or is it a characteristic of the Roland design?

Finally, I'm also having problems getting air recorder to work with the f130 and I don't think that it's incompetence on my part - piano partner is great and works well. Air recorder fails to detect the f130. I've tried everything and failed miserably . Is it simply not compatible with the f130?

Brin

In turn I'll answer everything I can before I start work this morning.

Some resonances affect different people different ways. I haven't heard what you describe, nor outside of this forum have I had any contact with anyone who describes what you are saying. Not to say that it doesn't exist. It is most definitely a characteristic of the note in the SuperNatural Piano sound being exacerbated by either the headphones, or the Headphones Ambience setting.

What is your Headphones Ambience setting turned to? This can have a drastic effect on everything you hear through headphones. Try experimenting with the settings and let me know if there's anything that changes this for you. You should find reference to it in your Owners Manual.

The speaker system and amplifier on the F-130R do, like every other amplifier have a noise floor. Again, outside of this forum, I've had no word from any end user describing the same. If you want to double check that it is similar to other units, you'll want to contact your retailer and see if there is a piano you can compare it to. Although, with the stringent quality control measures that we undertake for every Roland and BOSS product, I do think that you'll find it to be comparable, if not exactly the same as another F-130R.

Air Recorder is not compatible with the F-130R. However, Air Performer is. I use Air Performer pretty constantly to learn new music. It has all the features of Air Recorder, sans recording.

Hope all this helps.

Off to work now.

Jay

I think that the previous advice is very wise:

. . . Don't buy a DP that you haven't played yourself.

I'm going to go back to the store, and re-try the F130R thinking about "How does this feel?", instead of "How does this sound?".

I can remember the F130R sound generator perfectly well, but I have no memory of the action.

. Charles

PS -- I can't speak to the comparison of F130R action vs Kawai VPC1. Reports on the VPC1 (here, and on the Pianoteq forum) have been favorable.

Thank you very much for the answer Charles, and I am looking forward to hearing you oppinion!

The previous advice is priceless but I'm still in the impossibility of testing it which makes this rather complicated.
Yesterday I went to all the music stores in the city and have tested all the different mechanics that I have found and my impressions are as follows (in the order of preference):
1. Roland RD700 (the first one with PHA II) - nicest texture of the keys from the tested bunch, the keybed was lively and easily playable even for fast complicated pieces. Even if quite old, it felt really good, but sadly it lagged behind in other aspects so it's not an option. If this felt this good, I can easily understand why people are in love with the PHA-4 concert in the RD800.
2. Kawai CN-34 (with RH2 trisens) - good feel, a bit slower took a bit more force to play at the base of the keys, but overall impression satisfying - unfortunately out of price range, otherwise for the same money I could order the Roland HP-504.
3. Yamaha YDP-162 (GH) - OK, but a bit too much on the heavy/slow side for my taste and somewhat noisy (less important). I was wondering if the GH3 feels different, more playable, or the only difference is the third sensor.
4. Korg LP-380 (RH3) - quite responsive with fast pieces, but not very authentic - I think the keybed was a bit shallow maybe?! Didn't feel like a piano...
5. Casio PX-350 (SHA II, tri-sens) - amazing action for a 500$ instrument if we're talking about px-150 in the States, but if I wanna go for the px780 where I live I'd pay as much as the F-130R, and I don't think it's worth that price. It's pretty responsive but still on the slow side, and takes a fair amount of force to play at the base of the keys. Didn't particularly like the texture, but it wouldn't have been a bother if the mechanics would've been good.
6. Roland RD-300NX (ivory feel-g) - very nice instrument from multiple points of view, but the mechanics didn't cut it for my purpose. It felt quite similar to the Casio I'd say (wish I could've tried them in the same shop, without my hand frozen before I played the Casio). I think it's a very nice stage piano for the price, but the keys are slow/sluggish when it comes to advanced classical repertoire.

I'm a little rusty, since I have rarely played in recent years, but I still found the difference between different mechanics very distinguishable.
Sadly no chance to test the VPC1 or similar action. I suppose it must feel great, after having tested the RH2 which also made a good impression. No chance to test roland's premium/ concert action either. As for the f-130r (or rp401r), testing it is not possible either in the next weeks and I'd like to get it sooner rather than later. I'm trying to fit in the travel plans to test it but it just doesn't work now...

To sum this up, if the action on the F-130R would be close/similar to the CN-34's RH2, that would make it a great choice. I daren't say close to the PHA4 premium since that would probably be more than wishful thinking..
On the other hand if it's close to ivory feel G or the Casio privia line, it wouldn't suit me and I'd be better off waiting some more time.

As previously stated, any input is appreciated and I warmly thank you guys for it!

Coll

Coll - it is a slightly updated version of the action from the RD-300NX. Enough of the wishful thinking and go get yourself the RD700 if you liked the feel of that!

It's a 76-key DGX-200. It has volume sensitive keys, but no weighting. I do plan to bring him along to check out pianos but I wanted to do some research first.

I checked out the F130 today and it is fantastic! I'll check out those models as well. Some previous generation Kawai's and Rolands are going for $500 - $600 which might be an option as well.

I don't know if it's necessary to make the investment for a digital piano that has all 3 pedals. The F130 does but I'm not sure at which point in his lessons he'd start learning the pedals other than the sustain pedal.

FWIW --

After a bit more playing (on an F130R, DP90Se, R-800, default piano tone on all, all with Shure SE215 IEM's):

I think the Roland F130R has a nicer action than the Casio PX-x50's (including my own PX-350). "Nicer" means there's a softer bottoming-out of the keys. There's just a hint of "escapement", but you have to be looking for it, to feel it. Way better than the action on the old R-300.

My complaint about the 'SuperNatural' sound on the F130R persists:

. . . The sound gets "clangy" too soon, as you go from pp to FF.

I was able to change the F130R's "touch" to "H1" and "H2" (harder-than-default). The "H1" setting was quite playable, and moved the "clang" out of the mp-to-F range. So that was an improvement, and it would be what I'd choose to use if I owned the piano.

The "H2" setting eliminated the "clang", but I couldn't get a satisfying FF out of the keyboard. The sound was that of an acoustic with too-soft hammers.

The F130R has a reasonable amount of "string resonance". Maybe not as much as an acoustic, but more than some DP's that advertise that they have the feature.

I didn't know that there's a "Brilliance" adjustment on the F130R; that might have some effect on the clang. And I haven't tried any of the other "piano" voices -- there are

The DPSe was a dream to play. Nice feel, nice sound, yummy. [I took out the IEM's, believing that I'd somehow engaged the loudspeakers and was getting room resonance. No -- I was hearing headphone sound. Even with "ambience" and "reverb" turned off, it sounds good.]

The R-800 was also very nice (I was interrupted).

Neither the DPSe nor the R-800 had the clang problem I heard in the F130R. They both got harsher ("brighter"? "more metallic"?) as dynamics went from pp to FF, but they did so more-or-less the same way an acoustic piano would. Both had nicer actions than the PX-350 (which you would hope for, given their costs!)

If you want to use the F130R to drive Pianoteq (or another software piano), I have no problem saying "Yes, it's fine". And what bothers _me_ about the sound generator might not bother you, and it can be tempered by changing the "touch" in the menu system, or (maybe) by reducing the "brightness", or (maybe) by using the "Ballade Piano" voice.

It's a tough decision, when you can't put your own hands on the keys, and use your own ears.

. Charles

if it's the original RD700, the RD300NX is 3 piano generations and a full 2 action generations removed from it. If it is the RD700GX, the RD300NX is still 2 generations of piano and one of action removed from it.

Jay

Jay, unfortunately it is the original, so it's a bit old. As for the rd300 i'm not sure which version it was, I supposed it was the nx but I might be wrong, will call to check.
Lolatu, I'm still keeping in mind your advice but at the time this is the best I can do so I either have to wait some more, either dig some more in my search. The rd-700 isn't an option because of the age and the inconvenience of needing a stand as well as needing to buy a pedal and other reasons. Maybe 900 dollars is an ok price, but I don't think it's worth that much, at least not for me.
Thanks for the very, Charles! Besides the softer bottom, would you say there's also a difference in playability? Is it more agile or it's pretty much the same as the Ivory feel g or the privias?

Thanks everybody,
Coll

I called the store to check. It was the rd300nx with the Ivory feel g. I was hoping it would've been an older model given how I ranked it.

I can't play fast enough to reach the limit on _any_ of the keyboards we're talking about. Ask a better pianist.

In more than one old thread this question -- "Which DP can be played the fastest?" -- came up. And more than one person said:

. . . RD-300NX

Now, I tried that DP two years ago, and didn't like the action much. But it was light, and fast.

. Charles

PMFJI (with an opinion you didn't ask for) --

It doesn't make sense to buy a DP _knowing_ that it doesn't have a feature (e.g. 3 pedals!) that you expect to need in the foreseeable future.

You can get a 3-pedal unit on most DP's from the Casio PX-150, on up. [I assume there's one for the Yamaha P105, too.] If you buy something on the low end that _supports_ 3 pedals, you can likely add pedals in the future.

The F130R can certainly be played a lot better than most 9-year-olds can play it. But it's something to grow into. No harder to use than any other DP, for a beginner.

If it's within budget, there's nothing wrong with buying it.

. Charles

That's certainly an interesting statement.
I used Isaac Albeniz - Asturias for reference and unfortunately didn't find it sufficiently fast. Just a personal opinion as well, I'm not an expert but on my inexpensive upright I can play it without a problem.

I agree with Charles.

Buying new I'd get all the pedals there are, and its usually cheaper compared to adding pedals later on. On a DP, you can also select what the pedals do.

BTW...I find piano #2 has less 'clang' with the same 'touch' setting.

Hi mcoll:

Sorry it took so long to get back to you.

I experienced the same challenge with F-130R in that there was no place within reasonable driving where I would actually try the piano out. So I did all the research that I could, especially watching a number of YouTube videos where people are actually playing it, as well as reading every mention of it on this forum.

While I did not consider the Casio's. I've tried the models you mention, but none of really resonated (figuratively) with me.

With all that said, I took a gamble and simply ordered the F-130R and and I was not at all disappointed. In fact over the course of several weeks into playing it, I discovered some settings which made the sound even more to my liking. Added to that...my kids are advanced piano students who practice with an acoustic we have in the house. They have commented that the Roland is the closest to a real piano of the four previous digital pianos I owned in a short 2-year time frame.

With every single Digital piano that I have purchased up until this point I experienced buyers remorse within a few short weeks. This Roland is the one exception to that rule. I was happy from the day that I received it, and I do not have immediate plans to replace it. And when I do eventually get around to it, there's a good chance it'll be another Roland, although the ES7 is always in the back of my mind.