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Re: Compare Steinway, Estonia & Shigeru Kawai [Re: Scott McBain] #2354818
11/25/14 11:04 PM
11/25/14 11:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Scott McBain
Everyone knows that if you buy a steinway you will grow richer, play better, get better looking, never age and more nice things will happen to you, but you must be super intelligent to understand all this.
What? I thought that was a beverage that did all that for us?


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Re: Compare Steinway, Estonia & Shigeru Kawai [Re: Norbert] #2354820
11/25/14 11:13 PM
11/25/14 11:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Norbert
The best piano to "compare" a Steinway any day has always been Mason Hamlin.

Guarantee that if people would play the pianos side by side, few if any could identify which is which.

Blind tests can be skewed in so many ways. There are significant differences between a Mason and Hamlin and a Steinway, as I'm sure you know, Norbert. Just because some or most people can't tell the difference doesn't mean it's not there.


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Re: Compare Steinway, Estonia & Shigeru Kawai [Re: Nxwang] #2354841
11/26/14 12:29 AM
11/26/14 12:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Nxwang
We spent almost whole day today to let my son tried many pianos. Now we have three choose. Could anyone give us some suggestion? Thanks a lot!

1, Steinway Model M, 1993, $38000
2, Estonia Model 168, new, $28000
3, Shigeru Kawai Model SK-2L, new, $39000


If you're spending this kind of money I think you should know which one you prefer. If not, you should probably wait before blowing this kind of cash just to find out in a couple of years you wish you bought the other one because of xyz.

I also wouldn't count on resale for any of them. My guess is it'll take a long while before you find a buyer with this type of budget who wants to buy your piano at a price you want to sell it at.


Re: Compare Steinway, Estonia & Shigeru Kawai [Re: A454.7] #2354852
11/26/14 12:53 AM
11/26/14 12:53 AM
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Originally Posted by A454.7
Originally Posted by AJF
[Well no. It's not all marketing and hype. If you are an endorsed artist with Steinway or Yamaha (or in my case Shigeru) there are potentially various benefits. I've done several recordings/concerts for example where a piano was provided for free or minimal charge.
Except, that has not been the case with the Steinway artists...unless something has changed.


I'm not sure what you're basing this on. I regularly see local and visiting artists provided with a Steinway brought in for performances. I'm not sure if this has to do with the local dealership here but they are very active in providing instruments for artists here in the Toronto area.



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Re: Compare Steinway, Estonia & Shigeru Kawai [Re: Nxwang] #2354884
11/26/14 03:04 AM
11/26/14 03:04 AM
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Just being an "Steinway artist" doesn't mean you can't own a different piano yourself.

I know of several who have...

Norbert


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Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642
Re: Compare Steinway, Estonia & Shigeru Kawai [Re: Norbert] #2354901
11/26/14 04:50 AM
11/26/14 04:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Norbert
Quote
Don't get hung up in Steinway's exclusivity and marketing. The pianos are not hype--they really are that good.


I persoanlly have never had problems with that.

However it's problematic if someone calls himself "best", "incomparable" and so on. A bit of a stretch IMHO..

The best piano to "compare" a Steinway any day has always been Mason Hamlin.

Guarantee that if people would play the pianos side by side, few if any could identify which is which.

Not going to "which" piano may be even preferred in such case.

It's been attempted here on the board by someone before.

Enough...

Norbert


Doesn't every manufacturer say they they are the best, generally speaking?


2012 NY Steinway Model B | Kawai MP11 | Nord Stage 3 Compact | Moog Sub 37 | Behringer DeepMind 12 | Sequential Circuits Prophet 6 | Korg Prologue
Re: Compare Steinway, Estonia & Shigeru Kawai [Re: Nxwang] #2354915
11/26/14 06:36 AM
11/26/14 06:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Nxwang
We spent almost whole day today to let my son tried many pianos. Now we have three choose. Could anyone give us some suggestion? Thanks a lot!

1, Steinway Model M, 1993, $38000
2, Estonia Model 168, new, $28000
3, Shigeru Kawai Model SK-2L, new, $39000


Regarding your initial posting, sight unseen from my vantage point ,
my choice would definitely be your 3rd -
Shigeru Kawai Model SK-2L.

The Steinway 'Artist' thing,
and all kinds of Artist models, stated artist features, glorified proclamations from various manufacturers and dealers , doesn't have anything to do with being an artist.

As others have mentioned , take your time. You have a budget , that most could only dream of.
Let your hands, ears ,eyes assist you.
Along with your inquiries , research and heart.


Re: Compare Steinway, Estonia & Shigeru Kawai [Re: Nxwang] #2355002
11/26/14 12:13 PM
11/26/14 12:13 PM
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Do make sure you read the George Kolasis article.

http://www.georgekolasis.com/best-pianos.html

A new Shigeru should offer you a beautiful sounding, carefully regulated and problem-free piano.

Re: Compare Steinway, Estonia & Shigeru Kawai [Re: Nxwang] #2355028
11/26/14 01:45 PM
11/26/14 01:45 PM
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For what it's worth, a brand new Shigeru vs. a 20 year old Steinway would be a tough choice for me, to say the least.


2012 NY Steinway Model B | Kawai MP11 | Nord Stage 3 Compact | Moog Sub 37 | Behringer DeepMind 12 | Sequential Circuits Prophet 6 | Korg Prologue
Re: Compare Steinway, Estonia & Shigeru Kawai [Re: Nxwang] #2355031
11/26/14 01:55 PM
11/26/14 01:55 PM
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Surrey, B.C.
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Quote
Doesn't every manufacturer say they they are the best, generally speaking?


Not that I know. With the possible exception of Fazioli.
But not everybody is a Fazioli Fan and while they may believe being "best" there is no general consent on this.

The Germans including most Euros, often with a long family history each, are respectful of each other. [generally..]

Often their forefathers also competed in same market,as did American makers such as Knabe or Chickering striving for top spot.

The notion of "best" is something that consumers and pianists need to decide for themselves.

While Steinway claims the majority of pianists have "chosen" their piano, the real test would only be if a number of pianos would be offered to be freely "chosen from" at each concert.

This is clearly not the case nor would it be expected that all pianists would choose the exactly same piano.

An impossibility...

Norbert

Last edited by Norbert; 11/26/14 01:58 PM.

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Re: Compare Steinway, Estonia & Shigeru Kawai [Re: Nxwang] #2355058
11/26/14 02:50 PM
11/26/14 02:50 PM
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Quote
Blind tests can be skewed in so many ways. There are significant differences between a Mason and Hamlin and a Steinway, as I'm sure you know, Norbert. Just because some or most people can't tell the difference doesn't mean it's not there.


Actually I wasn't talking about 'blind tests' but more along those comparative lines that Faust Harrison did in New York several years ago.

Considering that all pianos are slightly different from each other including different models my same maker, it's still Mason Hamlin that is most often compared to Steinway.

Perhaps the very reason Faust Harrison, a prominent rebuilder of Steinway grands in New York, had exactly chosen Mason for the purpose of comparison.

Norbert

Last edited by Norbert; 11/26/14 07:12 PM.

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Re: Compare Steinway, Estonia & Shigeru Kawai [Re: AJF] #2355081
11/26/14 03:50 PM
11/26/14 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by AJF
I'm not sure what you're basing this on. I regularly see local and visiting artists provided with a Steinway brought in for performances. I'm not sure if this has to do with the local dealership here but they are very active in providing instruments for artists here in the Toronto area.
Are you suggesting that the Steinway artists are not paying anything for the concert use of the loaner pianos? If so, this would be significant information for other pianists to know.

Going off the past few Steinway artist agreements I have had the opportunity to read through, artists get access to loaner pianos, but they have to pay for that privilege (i.e., it is not for FREE). Non-Steinway artists, generally, have the same access to the loaner piano at the same rental rates. It depends on the local dealer, so I am sure there are exceptions.

Are you saying that Steinway artists in Toronto are not paying for it?


Masters degree in piano technology, +factory(s) training, etc., blah, blah, yada, yada, yada...[uncensored break-out in song]..."it don't mean a thing, if you aint got that swing."
--Klavierbaukuenstler des Erwachens--
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Re: Compare Steinway, Estonia & Shigeru Kawai [Re: Nxwang] #2355262
11/26/14 11:10 PM
11/26/14 11:10 PM
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I'm not suggesting that pianists are getting instruments for free. I don't know the details of their artist agreements. I do know that there have been situations where Steinways have been provided for shows in such a way that it has been made very economically viable for the artist and venue and certainly transcends "marketing and hype".



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Re: Compare Steinway, Estonia & Shigeru Kawai [Re: Nxwang] #2355637
11/27/14 10:50 PM
11/27/14 10:50 PM
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Los Angeles
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Thanks a lot to everyone. I have checked those website. And we are going to other piano store tomorrow. I will let my son try more. He prefer Shigeru at this time. But I don't know will he change his mind again. 😉


Re: Compare Steinway, Estonia & Shigeru Kawai [Re: Nxwang] #2355668
11/28/14 01:47 AM
11/28/14 01:47 AM
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Quote
He prefer Shigeru at this time. But I don't know will he change his mind again. 😉


Best of luck: all three pianos are very fine specimen!

Norbert smile


www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642
Re: Compare Steinway, Estonia & Shigeru Kawai [Re: Nxwang] #2355877
11/28/14 05:28 PM
11/28/14 05:28 PM
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We went to other two piano store today. We saw a C.Bechstein, 1987, 5'8", Pyramid Mahogany, $45,000, the condition is good, everything original. My son likes the it. Dose the price reasonable? Thanks!

Re: Compare Steinway, Estonia & Shigeru Kawai [Re: Nxwang] #2355947
11/28/14 08:26 PM
11/28/14 08:26 PM
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If you consider that a 27 year old piano will, unless it has already been done, be coming up for re-stringing and other restorative work, then I would think that the price is too high.

Kind regards,

Robert.

Re: Compare Steinway, Estonia & Shigeru Kawai [Re: Nxwang] #2355964
11/28/14 09:27 PM
11/28/14 09:27 PM
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Seems high to me too, although the pyramid mahogany finish is probably pushing up the price some. Often, special finishes are harder to sell though, so the dealer might be willing to bargain. I would try to get the price down from there for sure.

Re: Compare Steinway, Estonia & Shigeru Kawai [Re: Nxwang] #2355991
11/28/14 11:08 PM
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They are not going to re stringing or do any work. They will just tune it and doing some detail. So with out restore, the string can't be use for long time is it? And could anyone tell me what is the reasonable price? Thanks a lot!

Re: Compare Steinway, Estonia & Shigeru Kawai [Re: Nxwang] #2356024
11/29/14 12:30 AM
11/29/14 12:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Nxwang
They are not going to re stringing or do any work. They will just tune it and doing some detail. So with out restore, the string can't be use for long time is it? And could anyone tell me what is the reasonable price? Thanks a lot!
Prices are so difficult on rare instruments. It doesn't have a lot of brand recognition (at least compare to Steinway) so sometimes that drives the prices down a lot. I'm not sure what exactly Bechstein was doing in 1987, and that could influence too. I agree this price sounds high, however I won't hazard a guess at a price, because it would be just that - a guess.


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