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Kawai MP11 Recording issue #2348992
11/12/14 09:36 AM
11/12/14 09:36 AM
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Steve Peterson Offline OP

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Hello, I just received my MP11 on Saturday, and am loving it. The action is pretty amazing.

I'm having a couple of questions about recording audio on the MP11. When I go into audio recording mode, choose WAV recording, and hit the record button, I get this message for several seconds:

"Empty USB or mp3 recording is recommended".

If I switch to mp3 recording, my message is

"Empty USB is recommended"

I have to wait for this message before I can start recording, which is really annoying. This happens with both a 4 GB thumb drive as well as a 32 GB thumb drive, both of which were almost empty. Is there a way to stop this?

Thanks in advance...


Cello, Piano, Electric Bass

1967 Baldwin SD-10 | Kawai MP11
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Re: Kawai MP11 Recording issue [Re: Steve Peterson] #2349008
11/12/14 10:13 AM
11/12/14 10:13 AM
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I assume you've formatted them on the MP11?

Are these brand name USB drives? I had to try several different ones before finding one that worked (a Kingston drive).


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Re: Kawai MP11 Recording issue [Re: Steve Peterson] #2349121
11/12/14 12:50 PM
11/12/14 12:50 PM
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Steve Peterson Offline OP

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I haven't formatted them on the MP11, but they are formatted with FAT32, and it sees the drives just fine. I'll format them on the Kawai tonight and see if that gets rid of the message.

BTW, it's not that the drives don't work. I can record just fine, I just get that annoying message every time I hit the record button.


Cello, Piano, Electric Bass

1967 Baldwin SD-10 | Kawai MP11
Re: Kawai MP11 Recording issue [Re: Steve Peterson] #2349208
11/12/14 03:48 PM
11/12/14 03:48 PM
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I never saw any of these messages on my MP11, I use a Sandisk Cruzer 16GB for recording, formatted it to FAT32 on Windows XP (yes, I strictly boycott anything Microsoft created afterwards).

No issues with recording of MP3 or WAV.

You could as well check your firmware if it is the latest and try a factory reset. Formatting your drive in the instrument might help but usually Windows should do a good job on this task. If you use Macs, well, no experience with that...

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Re: Kawai MP11 Recording issue [Re: Steve Peterson] #2349348
11/12/14 09:42 PM
11/12/14 09:42 PM
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Posts: 14,355
Hamamatsu, Japan
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Hello Steve,

First off congrats on the MP11 - glad to hear you're enjoying the action.

Regarding that message when using the USB recorder, I just tried the MP11 over in R&D using a 2GB stick, but did not see the pop-up (either with WAV or MP3). I formatted the stick on the MP11 itself, and it reads/writes without any delays.

I asked one of the MP programmer why this pop-up may occur, and he explained it could be due to slow access time, or that it's taking longer than expected to read/write to the device. This can sometimes happen when the data on the USB stick is fragmented.

My suggestion would be to try formatting the stick on the MP11 itself (ensure that you've copied/backed-up any data first). This will initialise the stick, and may prevent the pop-ups from appearing.

Best of luck!

Cheers,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
Re: Kawai MP11 Recording issue [Re: Rolf Benz] #2349387
11/12/14 11:45 PM
11/12/14 11:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Rolf Benz
I never saw any of these messages on my MP11, I use a Sandisk Cruzer 16GB for recording, formatted it to FAT32 on Windows XP

I have the same drive (the small Cruzer Fit version)... did you try formatting it on the MP11 first? I found that if I format it on the CA95 it can't be read in Windows. And if I format it in Windows (FAT32) it's really slow to save anything and freezes up the piano for about 10 seconds when I insert it. No such problems on the MP11?

James is trying to find out what sizes will work correctly.


Kawai CA95 / Steinberg UR22 / Sony MDR-7506 / Pianoteq Stage + Grotrian / Galaxy Vintage D / CFX Lite
In the loft: Roland FP3 / Tannoy Reveal Active / K&M 18810
Re: Kawai MP11 Recording issue [Re: lolatu] #2349398
11/13/14 12:21 AM
11/13/14 12:21 AM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,355
Hamamatsu, Japan
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Originally Posted by lolatu
James is trying to find out what sizes will work correctly.


I am? wink

I've tested the two USB sticks I have in my possession on a CA65, both formatting on the instrument, and formatting in Windows (FAT and FAT32), but am unable to recreate the issues you describe.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
Re: Kawai MP11 Recording issue [Re: Steve Peterson] #2349502
11/13/14 08:35 AM
11/13/14 08:35 AM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 305
Texas
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Steve Peterson Offline OP

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So I reformatted one of the thumb drives in the MP11, and the problem went away. Easy solution. Thanks to everyone who responded!

Still loving the MP11. For me, the most important part of a piano (digital or acoustic) is the action feel. Finally a digital piano that gives me a sense of control when playing. Really loving it.



Cello, Piano, Electric Bass

1967 Baldwin SD-10 | Kawai MP11
Re: Kawai MP11 Recording issue [Re: Steve Peterson] #2349517
11/13/14 09:25 AM
11/13/14 09:25 AM
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Hamamatsu, Japan
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Thanks for the update Steve - good to hear everything's going well.

Cheers,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
Re: Kawai MP11 Recording issue [Re: Steve Peterson] #2350268
11/14/14 06:55 PM
11/14/14 06:55 PM
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Well, I just popped in a new Corsair flash drive, and I have the identical issue as the OP did, with an incredibly annoying 20 second wait while the warning message is displayed, yet then it goes on to record and playback flawlessly! This is the flash drive:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00NAWEFGU/ref=pe_385040_121528360_TE_dp_1

I bought it based on other criteria, since I'm not aware that there's an "approved" list for the MP11.

This occurs even on the very first recording, following formatting by the MP11 itself.

James, can you check with the engineers and see what the heck is going on? For one thing, what is the MP11 doing during those 20 seconds of the warning message. I see it's accessing the flash drive, but if it's not actually defragging or moving anything around, then maybe this is a bug, and the warning is overzealous?

I haven't recorded anything longer than a few minutes, but it seems to me that everything's fine, except for the seemingly alarmist warning and delay.


Re: Kawai MP11 Recording issue [Re: Steve Peterson] #2350270
11/14/14 07:02 PM
11/14/14 07:02 PM
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Hamamatsu, Japan
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I'm sorry, I don't know.

It seems that larger capacity drives require more checking time.

If the wait time becomes annoying, my suggestion would be to try a different device - smaller drives seem to perform better.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
Re: Kawai MP11 Recording issue [Re: Steve Peterson] #2350271
11/14/14 07:10 PM
11/14/14 07:10 PM
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Hi James -- it's not the long checking time, which I'm sure is related to the 64GB size of the drive...it also says "checking..." for about 20 seconds when booting up the MP11 -- this is not the issue.

The issue is that, after freshly formatting the drive in the MP11, when I press record, it tells me: "Empty USB or MP3 recording is recommended"

And then 20 seconds later, it allows me to record, seemingly flawlessly (at least so far).

So this is why I think something is "overzealous" in the firmware.

I've had other solid state audio recording devices that required firmware updates in order to increase compatibility in handling different media. I expect this is the case here, and that's why I'd appreciate if the Kawai engineers would look into this.

My MP11 is running firmware V1.07

Thanks!

Last edited by rungabic; 11/14/14 07:16 PM.
Re: Kawai MP11 Recording issue [Re: Steve Peterson] #2350279
11/14/14 07:16 PM
11/14/14 07:16 PM
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Los Angeles, California
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I too, have experienced the same problem!


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Re: Kawai MP11 Recording issue [Re: PianoManChuck] #2350280
11/14/14 07:17 PM
11/14/14 07:17 PM
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Originally Posted by PianoManChuck
I too, have experienced the same problem!


Aha! Thanks for chiming in, Chuck! I was surprised to see the original poster solved the problem by formatting in the MP11, since I've done that since the start.

I'm certain this annoying behavior can be fixed in firmware.

Re: Kawai MP11 Recording issue [Re: rungabic] #2350285
11/14/14 07:24 PM
11/14/14 07:24 PM
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Los Angeles, California
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I haven't formatted on the MP11 yet... I would need to backup the data that's on the drive first before I let the MP11 format that drive.


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Re: Kawai MP11 Recording issue [Re: PianoManChuck] #2350287
11/14/14 07:27 PM
11/14/14 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted by PianoManChuck
I haven't formatted on the MP11 yet... I would need to backup the data that's on the drive first before I let the MP11 format that drive.


Got it...well that would be important to test I guess. But I still feel fairly confident the MP11 can be made to be more "forgiving" of the media.

PS -- love your videos.

Re: Kawai MP11 Recording issue [Re: rungabic] #2350293
11/14/14 07:47 PM
11/14/14 07:47 PM
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Originally Posted by rungabic
Originally Posted by PianoManChuck
I haven't formatted on the MP11 yet... I would need to backup the data that's on the drive first before I let the MP11 format that drive.


Got it...well that would be important to test I guess. But I still feel fairly confident the MP11 can be made to be more "forgiving" of the media.

Ok... just backed up the drive and had the MP11 format it. Now the drive is freshly formatted, and empty... when I try to record, I get the following message:

"Empty USB or mp3 recording is recommended"

Now why on earth would that message pop up on a freshly formatted drive (formatted on the MP11, mind you) with absolutely no files on it? And the message stays there for about 5 seconds.... that's annoying! I don't need to see that message beyond showing it to me the first time. Would be nice to have a feature like a checkbox that indicates "do not show again".

Originally Posted by rungabic

PS -- love your videos.


Thanks! smile


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Re: Kawai MP11 Recording issue [Re: Steve Peterson] #2350310
11/14/14 08:46 PM
11/14/14 08:46 PM
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Even though I don't own a MP11, I would like to say that I've seen many issues with generic pen drives, as low access times, low r/w speed, etc. when connected to PCs.
In my country there are many of them, (as well as kinstom/sandisk/samsung etc. non genuine memories that sometimes have less capacity, and speed than the indicated on them).
I would stay on the safe side and use Kingston, Sandisk, Sony, Patriot, Verbatim, or any well known brand.


Pianoteq / Kawai CL 35 & MP11 / Old 1920's Upright Zimmerman
Re: Kawai MP11 Recording issue [Re: PianoManChuck] #2350311
11/14/14 08:48 PM
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Thanks for testing it out and confirming the issue, Chuck.

I'm guessing yours only holds you up for 5 seconds because it's a smaller drive than mine.

Regardless, I'm sure something can be done here. There's no reason the MP11 should need to be so finicky about flash drives. This sounds like either a bug, or a feature that needs to be tweaked.

Re: Kawai MP11 Recording issue [Re: Marcos Daniel] #2350312
11/14/14 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Marcos Daniel
I would stay on the safe side and use Kingston, Sandisk, Sony, Patriot, Verbatim, or any well known brand.


You're certainly right, but I'm using a name-brand drive, a fast one, and not a bootleg one at that.

I'm going to try to dig up some other ones to test, but regardless, I want to use the one I bought for the MP11, and there's really no reason I shouldn't be able to.

Re: Kawai MP11 Recording issue [Re: Marcos Daniel] #2350381
11/14/14 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Marcos Daniel

I would stay on the safe side and use Kingston, Sandisk, Sony, Patriot, Verbatim, or any well known brand.

I'm using a Patriot drive!


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Re: Kawai MP11 Recording issue [Re: Steve Peterson] #2350425
11/14/14 11:32 PM
11/14/14 11:32 PM
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I just tried a 64GB ADATA drive, formatted in the MP11, and had the same warning message and delay.

Then I tried a really crappy 4GB Transcend drive, and it worked with no error.

I can't really say whether it's related to the drive size or not, but again, I strongly suspect compatibility can be improved...the drives I've tried that throw the warning messages seem to work just fine. However, I'm subjected to the message, plus a full "drive scan" each and every time I hit record, for seemingly no real reason at all.

Re: Kawai MP11 Recording issue [Re: Steve Peterson] #2350482
11/15/14 05:01 AM
11/15/14 05:01 AM
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Just a side note:
It is amazing to see, how customers of a 2000EUR / 3000USD device are happily working as alpha testers
for a basic feature, such as USB connectivity - in the year 2014 and not even with USB3.0 .
SCNR




Re: Kawai MP11 Recording issue [Re: Steve Peterson] #2350493
11/15/14 06:33 AM
11/15/14 06:33 AM
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What happens ir you create a small fat32 partition at the beginning of the drive and use theremaingspace with another filesystem as ntfs?


Pianoteq / Kawai CL 35 & MP11 / Old 1920's Upright Zimmerman
Re: Kawai MP11 Recording issue [Re: Marcos Daniel] #2350495
11/15/14 07:31 AM
11/15/14 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Marcos Daniel
What happens ir you create a small fat32 partition at the beginning of the drive and use theremaingspace with another filesystem as ntfs?

Wouldn't even know how to do this, but why should we? It might be a solution, but any working USB drive formatted on the MP11 should work.


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Re: Kawai MP11 Recording issue [Re: Steve Peterson] #2350545
11/15/14 10:36 AM
11/15/14 10:36 AM
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Steve Peterson Offline OP

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So I tried reformatting my 32GB drive in the MP11 and still get the recording messages. My previous success had been with my 4GB, not my 32GB. It appears to be an issue with large drives.

My guess is that the MP11 doesn't know how to properly read the available space for large drives, and is reporting a small amount of available space, thus the messages about recording with an empty drive.

Hopefully James can take this back as a bug report and get this fixed in a future update.


Cello, Piano, Electric Bass

1967 Baldwin SD-10 | Kawai MP11
Re: Kawai MP11 Recording issue [Re: Steve Peterson] #2350559
11/15/14 11:08 AM
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Mine was also a 32Gb drive (Patriot Express). I don't consider 32Gb to be a large drive - not by today's standards anyway. I've been using a 128Gb drive for 2 years, and nowadays we have 256Gb USB thumb drives!


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Re: Kawai MP11 Recording issue [Re: Steve Peterson] #2350590
11/15/14 12:40 PM
11/15/14 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve Peterson
So I tried reformatting my 32GB drive in the MP11 and still get the recording messages. My previous success had been with my 4GB, not my 32GB. It appears to be an issue with large drives.

My guess is that the MP11 doesn't know how to properly read the available space for large drives, and is reporting a small amount of available space, thus the messages about recording with an empty drive.

Hopefully James can take this back as a bug report and get this fixed in a future update.


Not at all surprised, and I suspect you may be right. Certainly, this should easily be fixable with a firmware update. No reason we shouldn't be able to use 64GB drives and even more.

Re: Kawai MP11 Recording issue [Re: Morodiene] #2350602
11/15/14 01:41 PM
11/15/14 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Morodiene
Originally Posted by Marcos Daniel
What happens ir you create a small fat32 partition at the beginning of the drive and use theremaingspace with another filesystem as ntfs?

Wouldn't even know how to do this, but why should we? It might be a solution, but any working USB drive formatted on the MP11 should work.


I suggested this because I know that, for instance, some phones work properly with SD cards smaller than certain number of Gb...
Anyway these limitations are usually stated on the specs section of user manual.
I used to have a Sony Ericsson W200 that worked slowly with 4Gb memory card (maximum capacity recomended in specs= 2Gb)

By the way Ineedsomeonetorepairmyspacebar


Pianoteq / Kawai CL 35 & MP11 / Old 1920's Upright Zimmerman
Re: Kawai MP11 Recording issue [Re: Steve Peterson] #2350712
11/15/14 07:23 PM
11/15/14 07:23 PM
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I did some more experimentation on the CA95, using the idea of creating a smaller partition on the thumb drive.

I used the instructions here to create the partition (summary: download a small program called Lexar BootIt, which allows you to assign your thumb drive as "non-removeable" and hence Windows will let you create partitions in its Disk Management utility in the normal way).

I found:

- Creating a 2 GB FAT32 partition instead of the full 16 GB capacity, reduces the freeze time from 10 s to 6 s. Faster but still unsatisfactory.
- Creating a 2 GB FAT partition (which is the maximum size for FAT) reduces the freeze time to about 2 s. In fact, it may just be that the "Connecting USB" message is shown on the screen for 2 seconds and it doesn't freeze at all, because the piano is playable while the message is showing, unlike before.
- The FAT partition can co-exist happily with a FAT32 partition taking up the rest of the drive space (which the CA95 can't see, but you can use it on your computer and use it to store older files).

So there does seem to be a bug in the way that the Kawais cope with large drives and in particular the FAT32 file system, which they need to fix. However if you're happy just to use 2 GB for recording (which is about 3 hours of WAV or much more of MP3) then try creating a 2 GB FAT partition as a workaround.


Kawai CA95 / Steinberg UR22 / Sony MDR-7506 / Pianoteq Stage + Grotrian / Galaxy Vintage D / CFX Lite
In the loft: Roland FP3 / Tannoy Reveal Active / K&M 18810
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by MacMacMac. 11/18/18 04:03 AM
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