Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.7 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
What's Hot!!
PIANO TEACHERS Please read this!
-------------------
European Tour for Piano Lovers
JOIN US FOR THE TOUR!
--------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
Find a Professional
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Advertise on Piano World

Who's Online Now
137 registered members (15shoes, amad23, akressevich, Animisha, 2literpeter, 90125, Alexwm, ahinton, Alex C, 34 invisible), 1,427 guests, and 8 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 5 1 2 3 4 5
Re: Is it overkill to get a high end piano as a beginner? [Re: jdw] #2348987
11/12/14 09:21 AM
11/12/14 09:21 AM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 100
D
DancerJ Offline
Full Member
DancerJ  Offline
Full Member
D

Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 100
Originally Posted by jdw
I think the issue of displacing your wife from the room does change the balance. In that case I would probably go for the good upright. Unless, of course, she becomes so enraptured by the grand piano herself that she decides to take lessons too. That's what happened in our house. Now I share the piano with my husband--so it's no problem that it pretty much took over our living room. smile

This is the situation I would like to see in my house. Right now my piano and I are banished to our basement because my DH often watches TV in our living room. When I first told him that I would like to buy a piano, he was very against it. He was concerned about the physical and mental adjustments he would have to have to accommodate my piano. So putting my piano in our basement was the best solution not to disturb his life style.

Now that my piano skills are slowly getting better, my DH begins to show interest in learning the piano himself. So when I want to replace my piano, we may search for "our" grand, not DancerJ's upright, and we may put it in our living room, not in the basement.


Started my piano journey on Aug 13th, 2014.
Piano & Music Gifts & Accessories (570)
Piano accessories and music gift items
Re: Is it overkill to get a high end piano as a beginner? [Re: DancerJ] #2348996
11/12/14 09:45 AM
11/12/14 09:45 AM
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,106
TwoSnowflakes Offline
2000 Post Club Member
TwoSnowflakes  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,106
Originally Posted by DancerJ
Originally Posted by jdw
I think the issue of displacing your wife from the room does change the balance. In that case I would probably go for the good upright. Unless, of course, she becomes so enraptured by the grand piano herself that she decides to take lessons too. That's what happened in our house. Now I share the piano with my husband--so it's no problem that it pretty much took over our living room. smile

This is the situation I would like to see in my house. Right now my piano and I are banished to our basement because my DH often watches TV in our living room. When I first told him that I would like to buy a piano, he was very against it. He was concerned about the physical and mental adjustments he would have to have to accommodate my piano. So putting my piano in our basement was the best solution not to disturb his life style.

Now that my piano skills are slowly getting better, my DH begins to show interest in learning the piano himself. So when I want to replace my piano, we may search for "our" grand, not DancerJ's upright, and we may put it in our living room, not in the basement.


We spend most of our "social" time in our kitchen/great room, and our formal living room was one of those rooms that was basically unused. Kind of a museum to a time when living rooms were, well, lived in. So a grand piano fit in just fine in there.

But my husband has never once showed any interest in it! In fact, in all the time we have had a piano, including the first day we had it, I don't think he's ever touched it, except inadvertently, and I'm almost 100% sure he's never put a finger on the keyboard. Funny thing, because even if I weren't a piano player, such a large instrument in my house would cause me to at least want to check it out once in a while. At my chamber workshop this past summer, when I wasn't playing, I was drawn like a fly to a light bulb to the other instruments I rarely get to see up close! Fortunately for our bassoon player, I refrained from putting lips to reed. smile

Anyway, to the OP, I agree with the poster who said that only you know your commitment level to the piano, and that's what should guide your choice in terms of quality level of the piano you get. You're not flirting with the very low end, which brings into considerations of the piano being so bad that it reinforces your sense that you weren't going to like this anyway, so it's really a price thing--if you really feel that this is going to be a big part of your life going forward, then get the best piano you can and don't look back.

I hadn't yet started taking lessons when I purchased my piano, but I knew with absolute certainty it would be a major part of my life from then on out. It's interesting because I don't think I've ever felt that way about anything else before actually doing it.

So, knowing I was going to spend a lot of time with it, I took my time finding pianos and ultimately purchased a grand piano, and the largest one that would reasonably work in the room in which it was intended to go. I didn't get a top tier piano, but mine is made well and gives me pleasure to listen to. I just needed it to be something I couldn't "out play" for a the foreseeable future. And that's certainly the case. I have a few long-term pianistic goals for myself and when I reach them, I'll step up to a top tier piano.

Edited to add: I can't wait for retirement when I can spend my time playing piano all the damn time. But retirement is still at least a couple of decades away so... smile I think I'm going to retire to a house with my teacher and we can share one piano because she'll just be happy NOT to be playing piano all the damn time, haha.

Last edited by TwoSnowflakes; 11/12/14 09:49 AM.
Re: Is it overkill to get a high end piano as a beginner? [Re: NCRookie] #2349014
11/12/14 10:20 AM
11/12/14 10:20 AM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 3,542
California
P
phantomFive Offline
3000 Post Club Member
phantomFive  Offline
3000 Post Club Member
P

Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 3,542
California
After thinking over this in the night, I came upon another thought:

If you are able appreciate the difference between a cheap piano and nice piano while listening, then you will also enjoy it while playing. Even as a beginner.


Poetry is rhythm
Re: Is it overkill to get a high end piano as a beginner? [Re: NCRookie] #2349027
11/12/14 10:36 AM
11/12/14 10:36 AM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 793
Westford, MA
the nosy ape Offline
500 Post Club Member
the nosy ape  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 793
Westford, MA
In terms of grand vs. upright I would consider these points, in order of importance (to me).

1. A well regulated grand action usually gives better control at very soft volumes and has faster repetition. These issues are not likely to be encountered by you for some time.

2. A grand can be a beautiful piece of furniture and will likely be the focal point of the room it is in. In your case this seems to be a minus.

3. A grand projects sound much more than an upright against a wall. This also seems to be a minus in your case. Bear in mind, a good upright, even against a wall, can produce a very big sound. My family often complains about how loud my 52" Baldwin is from the opposite end of the house.

4. A grand is usually more expensive and requires more room, which makes it a much better status symbol.

Are you the type of person that would be more motivated to progress by the money you had to spend on a piano? If you are, then by all means by a more expensive piano. Are you the type of person that is willing to pay twice as much for 10% more quality? If you are, then buy the higher quality piano. Are you driven by instant gratification? Then buy one of the pianos you mentioned right away. Otherwise, take your time and find the piano that is best suited to you.

Re: Is it overkill to get a high end piano as a beginner? [Re: the nosy ape] #2349064
11/12/14 11:24 AM
11/12/14 11:24 AM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 11,230
B
bennevis Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
bennevis  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
B

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 11,230
I think that now that you know how good a high-quality grand piano can sound if played well (by your teacher), it will be very difficult to settle for anything less, especially as you can afford it.

If I was to buy an acoustic piano now, I wouldn't settle for anything less than a seven-foot grand from one of the better manufacturers. But that's because I've played so many good grands (including concert grands, fully-prepped for concert performance) over the years that uprights and small grands with sub-fusc bass are only just about tolerable, but not as a long-term piano for daily practice.

But when I was a beginner (aged 10), I'd never seen a grand piano (let alone touched one), so I thought the little vertical my parents bought was the bees' knees - even though the keys would stick periodically and the sound was (and still is - the piano resides, unloved and unplayed, in my parents' home) shrill and brittle. And no bass to speak of - just dull thuds. It wasn't until I was sent abroad to continue my studies that I had access to much bigger uprights with much better sound (when I wondered how I could ever have put up with that 'beginner's piano' back home, let alone got to ABRSM Grade 5 on it). And it wasn't until my late teens that I played a grand for the first time - when I was working towards my performance diploma with my new teacher, a concert pianist who had two grands in his home.

It would have been inconceivable for my parents to have bought even a decent-quality upright back then, for their children to learn on, let alone a grand (though there was certainly no lack of space in the house). Now it would be inconceivable for me to put up with that rubbish vertical.....


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
Re: Is it overkill to get a high end piano as a beginner? [Re: NCRookie] #2349078
11/12/14 11:44 AM
11/12/14 11:44 AM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 6,094
J
JoelW Offline
6000 Post Club Member
JoelW  Offline
6000 Post Club Member
J

Joined: May 2012
Posts: 6,094
bennevis,

I can relate. I started out on a cruddy, yellow-keyed vintage Everett console that couldn't be tuned due to internal problems. Going to the piano store was a blessing and a curse because I loved playing real instruments, but switching my technique over to them was impossible. I've overcome that since getting a real grand. At least having such a piece of garbage gave us perspective. grin

Re: Is it overkill to get a high end piano as a beginner? [Re: NCRookie] #2349090
11/12/14 12:08 PM
11/12/14 12:08 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,694
RonaldSteinway Offline
1000 Post Club Member
RonaldSteinway  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,694
The OP does not even know how to play piano.Yamaha or Kawai Upright between 7K to 10K is more than enough.
It is nice to have or play on a Fazioli, Steinway, etc, but it is not necessary at all. Try for several years, if OP can play well, go for an expensive piano.

Re: Is it overkill to get a high end piano as a beginner? [Re: NCRookie] #2349097
11/12/14 12:17 PM
11/12/14 12:17 PM
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,382
western MA, USA
H
hreichgott Offline
3000 Post Club Member
hreichgott  Offline
3000 Post Club Member
H

Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,382
western MA, USA
You should get the best piano you can afford *for the space the piano will occupy*. I think the beginning stages are exactly the right time to play on a great piano, because the better the piano is, the more inspired you will be to practice.

A proper grand is simply too big for the room you describe, especially if it is acoustically bright. The sound will be too loud and you won't be able to judge sound quality properly. But what you can do is get a high quality baby grand, in the 5'2" to 5'5" range. Then you'll have the action and feel of a grand (and all 3 pedals functioning properly). If it is still too loud for the room keep a heavy blanket on top of the lid.

When talking to your wife make a big deal out of the storage space that will be created underneath the grand (it worked for me...)


Heather W. Reichgott, piano http://heatherwreichgott.blogspot.com

Working on:
Cabaret (whole show)
12+ variations from classical ballets
Verdi: Stabat Mater
Copland: Appalachian Spring
Tangos and other fun music for piano duo

I love Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven and new music
Re: Is it overkill to get a high end piano as a beginner? [Re: hreichgott] #2349104
11/12/14 12:25 PM
11/12/14 12:25 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,694
RonaldSteinway Offline
1000 Post Club Member
RonaldSteinway  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,694
Originally Posted by hreichgott
You should get the best piano you can afford *for the space the piano will occupy*. I think the beginning stages are exactly the right time to play on a great piano, because the better the piano is, the more inspired you will be to practice.


From my observation, I do not believe that piano will inspire to practice more. As long as the piano is decent, it will not deter people from practicing. One does not need to have a great piano to be inspired to practice.

I have a friend who often placed in amateur competitions still practices on his old, crappy and ugly white Pearl River piano. As long as we have decent piano, I think it is good enough.

Re: Is it overkill to get a high end piano as a beginner? [Re: NCRookie] #2349105
11/12/14 12:26 PM
11/12/14 12:26 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,937
J
joe80 Online content
2000 Post Club Member
joe80  Online Content
2000 Post Club Member
J

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,937
You know what, if I were in your position, I'd buy the Kawai grand, I'd love it, I'd learn to play it, and I'd start my grandkids off playing on it too!

I think it's a wonderful idea, and if it all falls through, a Shigeru should be fairly easy to sell.

DO I think you'd regret it? No. Buy the piano!!!!

Re: Is it overkill to get a high end piano as a beginner? [Re: NCRookie] #2349115
11/12/14 12:39 PM
11/12/14 12:39 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 994
Chicago
J
jjo Online content
500 Post Club Member
jjo  Online Content
500 Post Club Member
J

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 994
Chicago
I don't think the piano will make any difference in whether you stick with a learning program or not. You either love playing piano or you don't. If it were me, I'd buy a relatively inexpensive piano and then, in 3 or 4 years, if it sticks, invest in a great piano since you know you'll use it for years.

Re: Is it overkill to get a high end piano as a beginner? [Re: jjo] #2349117
11/12/14 12:44 PM
11/12/14 12:44 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,694
RonaldSteinway Offline
1000 Post Club Member
RonaldSteinway  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,694
Originally Posted by jjo
I don't think the piano will make any difference in whether you stick with a learning program or not. You either love playing piano or you don't. If it were me, I'd buy a relatively inexpensive piano and then, in 3 or 4 years, if it sticks, invest in a great piano since you know you'll use it for years.


I cannot agree more!!!

Re: Is it overkill to get a high end piano as a beginner? [Re: NCRookie] #2349131
11/12/14 01:07 PM
11/12/14 01:07 PM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 100
D
DancerJ Offline
Full Member
DancerJ  Offline
Full Member
D

Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 100
Quote
If it is still too loud for the room keep a heavy blanket on top of the lid.

Isn't it silly? If you have to keep a blanket on the piano, why bother to buy such a piano in the first place?


Started my piano journey on Aug 13th, 2014.
Re: Is it overkill to get a high end piano as a beginner? [Re: NCRookie] #2349135
11/12/14 01:11 PM
11/12/14 01:11 PM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 100
D
DancerJ Offline
Full Member
DancerJ  Offline
Full Member
D

Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 100
Quote
From my observation, I do not believe that piano will inspire to practice more. As long as the piano is decent, it will not deter people from practicing. One does not need to have a great piano to be inspired to practice.

I cannot agree more. I only have a beginner's piano, which doesn't stop me from getting inspired. I just need more time in the day.


Started my piano journey on Aug 13th, 2014.
Re: Is it overkill to get a high end piano as a beginner? [Re: NCRookie] #2349141
11/12/14 01:25 PM
11/12/14 01:25 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 3,725
H
Hakki Online content
3000 Post Club Member
Hakki  Online Content
3000 Post Club Member
H

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 3,725
No, and yes.

Shigeru Kawai is Kawai's premier line. They also have more affordable grands; so do Yamaha, Petrof and other brands.

So, my advice is, first, definitely go with a grand at least 6 ft. long.
Second go with a more affordable grand and think of upgrading if you feel for it later.

You will much more appreciate the tone and action of a grand each time you play it. The grand will attract you to itself and will make you want to play it more. Just sitting in front of a grand is a totally different experience than playing an upright.

Go for a grand. But for now don't spend $$$$$$ yet.

Re: Is it overkill to get a high end piano as a beginner? [Re: gooddog] #2349142
11/12/14 01:30 PM
11/12/14 01:30 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,999
Midwest USA
Stubbie Offline
Gold Subscriber
Stubbie  Offline
Gold Subscriber

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,999
Midwest USA
Originally Posted by gooddog
What I've heard you say is "I have tried to learn the piano several times over the years without success" but now I'm retiring and hope to have the time (and commitment) to really try this time. With your history of trying several times without success, have you considered renting a piano until you see if you will stick with it this time?

Always buy the best piano you can afford but first make sure you are committed using it over the long term. It's a huge and wonderful investment but there is nothing sadder than unfulfilled ambition gathering dust in your home.

I'm not a fan of any of the pianos you've mentioned but perhaps you've found a good one. In any case be wary of what a salesman says about the quality of a piano. Having your teacher play and listen to it is a great idea but never buy a piano without having a qualified, top-notch technician examine it, even if it is new.

If you believe you will really stick with it this time, I would definitely suggest a small grand, (not a baby grand). I've got a 5'9" Steinway "O" which is the smallest of the Steinway grands and much as I'd love to squeeze in a larger B or D, I know the sound would overwhelm the room and the house. My music room is really my dining room and it is approximately the same size and height as your room but is connected to the living room which has a 20 foot ceiling. The "O" seems just right for the room and sounds great. I usually play it with the the lid propped on the short stick.

This brings to mind another thought. Make sure you can return the piano for full price if it does not suit the space you are planning to put it into! This is not an unusual condition of sale so be sure to ask for it.

Good points here. Your long term commitment and consideration for your wife are issues you need to think long and hard about. The Kawai K-500 will be less intrusive from both a space and sound volume aspect, and might be much more tolerable for your wife. As for your commitment to piano, only time will tell. You might find that playing for a time on the K-500 will let you make a much more informed decision if and when you decide to upgrade.

In principle, "buy the best you can afford, right from the start" is great advice, but sometimes we don't have the money, space, or family forbearance to do so.


[Linked Image]
Re: Is it overkill to get a high end piano as a beginner? [Re: hreichgott] #2349145
11/12/14 01:38 PM
11/12/14 01:38 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 21,899
Victoria, BC
BruceD Offline
Gold Subscriber
BruceD  Offline
Gold Subscriber

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 21,899
Victoria, BC
Originally Posted by hreichgott
[...] But what you can do is get a high quality baby grand, in the 5'2" to 5'5" range. Then you'll have the action and feel of a grand (and all 3 pedals functioning properly).[...]


I don't entirely agree with this. A "high quality baby grand," particularly those in the 5' 2" range have such built-in compromises to the scale design that the bass is usually thin or muddy, and is certainly not an inspiration to play or to practice. Moreover, the price of such a piano is probably well out of the range of the OP.

I certainly wouldn't pay the current price for a Steinway model S (5' 1") when the same price would get me a very good 6 foot-plus model from Yamaha, Schimmel, Shigeru Kawai, August Förster, and Estonia, all of which, from a musical standpoint, are much more "musical" instruments than the Steinway S. A moot point, however, since this size piano wouldn't fit into the OP's suggested location.

Regards,


BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190
Re: Is it overkill to get a high end piano as a beginner? [Re: BruceD] #2349224
11/12/14 04:17 PM
11/12/14 04:17 PM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1
D
discokachina Offline
Junior Member
discokachina  Offline
Junior Member
D

Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1
Get the Kawai Grand and have a player installed so you can enjoy it one way or the other!

Re: Is it overkill to get a high end piano as a beginner? [Re: NCRookie] #2349233
11/12/14 04:40 PM
11/12/14 04:40 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 347
T
Troy 125 Offline
Full Member
Troy 125  Offline
Full Member
T

Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 347
Lots of opinions, so I'll throw in mine. It sounds like a nice quality upright is the ideal answer for you, keeps wife happy and gives you the opportunity to make another run at learning the piano. It also sounds like you have many other plans for retirement other than the piano, so make it an enjoyable part of your life rather than pressuring yourself to try to live up to the expectations that getting a grand would create. You can always upgrade later should you become obsessed, but it will take many years for you to recognize the "limitations" that an upright would present, and most pianists never bump into that ceiling.

Enjoy learning and making music.

Re: Is it overkill to get a high end piano as a beginner? [Re: NCRookie] #2349276
11/12/14 06:17 PM
11/12/14 06:17 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 375
San Antonio, Texas
Theodore Offline
Full Member
Theodore  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 375
San Antonio, Texas
Life is short, make all the music you can on the greatest instrument you can find...everyday...it adds beauty and meaning to life.


Theodore
Alamo Music Center
San Antonio,Texas
Page 2 of 5 1 2 3 4 5

Moderated by  Brendan, Kreisler 

(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Petrof
(ad)
Sweetwater - Keyboards
Sweetwater
ad
Jazz Piano Online
Jazz Piano Lessons Online

New Topics - Multiple Forums
Time for first tuning?
by mackguy. 01/17/19 12:47 PM
Chickering Manufactured by Baldwin Mid 1990's
by Leslie C. 01/17/19 12:40 PM
Kawai CA63
by Bibster. 01/17/19 12:19 PM
Supplementing Faber Adult AIO Book 1?
by pianotimo. 01/17/19 09:54 AM
Pianoteq 6.4 - revoiced Steinway D, B and K2
by Groove On. 01/17/19 09:03 AM
Forum Statistics
Forums40
Topics189,624
Posts2,782,805
Members92,127
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Please Support Our Advertisers
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

Sweetwater

PianoTeq Petrof
Piano Buyer Spring 2018
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2018 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.2