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Ritmüller GH-148R, GH-160R, GH-170R experiences
#2346161 11/06/14 04:46 AM
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I really like the tone of these Ritmüllers. But the price is low. What's the catch?

What do you guys think of them?
Are they good value?
Are they good quality?
What about the transition at the tenor break?

Experiences and comments are welcome!


Nordiska 120CA (Dongbei) upright from about 2004, Kawai MP11 digital piano, Sennheiser HD 600 headphones.
Re: Ritmüller GH-148R, GH-160R, GH-170R experiences
pinkfloydhomer #2346162 11/06/14 04:47 AM
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There is no obvious catch.

Re: Ritmüller GH-148R, GH-160R, GH-170R experiences
WimPiano #2346169 11/06/14 05:20 AM
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Meaning that you have tried them and think they are good pianos?


Nordiska 120CA (Dongbei) upright from about 2004, Kawai MP11 digital piano, Sennheiser HD 600 headphones.
Re: Ritmüller GH-148R, GH-160R, GH-170R experiences
pinkfloydhomer #2346451 11/06/14 04:20 PM
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Anyone else tried these?


Nordiska 120CA (Dongbei) upright from about 2004, Kawai MP11 digital piano, Sennheiser HD 600 headphones.
Re: Ritmüller GH-148R, GH-160R, GH-170R experiences
pinkfloydhomer #2346481 11/06/14 05:18 PM
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This is what got our attention at a time we were already doing great with Hailun:

http://viewer.zmags.com/publication/e8ffb87c#/e8ffb87c/276

After checking pianos shortly after, we decided to become dealers on the spot - dropping "the other one"

Never looked back - tons and tons of happy customers since.

Great designer [Lothar Thomma], genuine German Renner hammers,Roslau wire, high quality solid spruce soundboards,highly musical sound.
Make Ritmüller a tough act to beat.

Sounding as good or better than every piano twice the price.
Ridiculously under-priced. [now better stop...]

Highly appreciative if anybody can point out a finer make anywhere near same price point.

Rest assured, constantly looking and re-checking things - highly appreciating hints...

Norbert

Last edited by Norbert; 11/06/14 05:26 PM.

www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642
Re: Ritmüller GH-148R, GH-160R, GH-170R experiences
pinkfloydhomer #2346519 11/06/14 06:59 PM
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No catch I don't think. I love my Ritmuller, and would recommend them. Great price, great value, and my piano has a wonderful sound. Resale value - well are you going to sell it? I guess not everyone knows the brand as well as some others, but I am not selling mine any time soon. The longer they are out there and the more people who play them, the more "converts" there will be. Is the brand name important to you or do you want a great sounding piano at a reasonable price? Love my UH 132. Bought it over a Yamaha U3, and I would have paid the extra price for the U3. The GH 160 I tried was really lovely. Good luck in your search! (My opinion is my 52" upright had a warmer, richer sound than the Yamaha U3 - which was also quite nice. The action was equivalent I thought, but the sound in both treble and bass, more appealing with the Ritmuller.) I have had it serviced now by several different techs - for tuning - and they thought it was a "good" piano, without me asking and specific questions. Nice tone, quality product, no issues from the techs reported. I would also be interested to hear what techs have to say about the brand.

Last edited by Spuds; 11/06/14 07:16 PM.
Re: Ritmüller GH-148R, GH-160R, GH-170R experiences
Spuds #2346527 11/06/14 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Spuds
No catch I don't think. I love my Ritmuller, and would recommend them. Great price, great value, and my piano has a wonderful sound. Resale value - well are you going to sell it? I guess not everyone knows the brand as well as some others, but I am not selling mine any time soon. The longer they are out there and the more people who play them, the more "converts" there will be. Is the brand name important to you or do you want a great sounding piano at a reasonable price? Love my UH 132. Bought it over a Yamaha U3, and I would have paid the extra price for the U3. The GH 160 I tried was really lovely. Good luck in your search! (My opinion is my 52" upright had a warmer, richer sound than the Yamaha U3 - which was also quite nice. The action was equivalent I thought, but the sound in both treble and bass, more appealing with the Ritmuller.) I have had it serviced now by several different techs - for tuning - and they thought it was a "good" piano, without me asking and specific questions. Nice tone, quality product, no issues from the techs reported. I would also be interested to hear what techs have to say about the brand.


Resale value is so overrated. It's not easy for a consumer to sell any piano not named Steinway on the open market. And who wants to pay double or triple just to try to recoup some of what you paid out initially down the road?


Shigeru Kawai SK-7
Mason and Hamlin BB
Re: Ritmüller GH-148R, GH-160R, GH-170R experiences
Grandman #2346528 11/06/14 07:24 PM
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I agree. That's why I bought one.

Re: Ritmüller GH-148R, GH-160R, GH-170R experiences
pinkfloydhomer #2346535 11/06/14 07:39 PM
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I guess the only "catch" in these types of scenarios is how long the piano will continue to perform well without a proven track record.
One of the schools I teach at purchased uprights and grands from Yamaha and "another" less established brand. They all played beautifully when new. Over the span of about 8 years the pianos have all had the same maintenance and have taken roughly the same amount of abuse by students. The yamahas still play well with an even (although now slightly brighter) tone and mostly uniform action across the keyboard. The "other" brand has shown much more significant signs of age and abuse. The students avoid those instruments because at this point they aren't pleasurable to play (and the school doesn't budget for much more than tuning and very minimal regulation).
This would be my only fear with buying an instrument that hasnt had time to establish a solid track record.



Pianist, Composer
Disclaimer: Shigeru Kawai Artist
Re: Ritmüller GH-148R, GH-160R, GH-170R experiences
pinkfloydhomer #2346557 11/06/14 09:35 PM
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This would be my only fear with buying an instrument that hasn't had time to establish a solid track record.


While this is an understandable objection, there's nothing to show Ritmullers won't stand the test of time.

Rest assured,as dealers we watch this thing very carefully

For one, these pianos are not put together willy-nilly but were the result of incredible experience, careful planning, huge investments and near perfect execution. Incredible instruments at their price point - no more, no less.

I say this honesty not because we're selling his brand but because have so much experience with them. Many of our customers include advanced pianists and students, some playing 4-6 hours a day.

We have sold a great number of these instruments, often "sight-unseen" including to schools, churches, piano teachers and institutions. Several are in extreme climate of our North - no problems at all. Every tuner who has serviced them has written highly complimentay reports. These are the facts.

As long as the pianos are properly set up and carefully maintained, we haven't spotted any problems - in fact they seem to be getting better as time goes by.

Guess Lothar Thomma knew what he was doing designing these pianos picking at same time the type quality components which make these pianos truly stand out.

You may decide for a different piano but I don't know one offering so much anywhere near their price.

Ain't worried one bit...

Norbert smile

Last edited by Norbert; 11/06/14 09:53 PM.

www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642
Re: Ritmüller GH-148R, GH-160R, GH-170R experiences
Norbert #2346579 11/06/14 10:46 PM
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I've had a Ritmuller GH-170R for a bit more than three years and I've never had a day when I've regretted its purchase. I suspect it will be beautifully functional for a lot more years than I have left to play it!!! cry


I'm Craig, I'm retired, It's Saturday every day!
Alfred's Masterwork Classics Vol 3 and Vol 4
YDP-160, GH-170R
Alfred 1 Graduate
Re: Ritmüller GH-148R, GH-160R, GH-170R experiences
Norbert #2346614 11/07/14 02:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Norbert
[quote]Incredible instruments at their price point - no more, no less.


I hear this a lot here and it's a little confusing to me. Let's say a 6' Ritmuller is $15K and similar size Yamaha is $30K. Does that mean that if the Ritmuller sounds 1/2 as good and is 1/2 as durable then it's a good piano for it's price?

The way I see it - a piano is either nice or it's not. I don't think "it's nice for $15K but if it were $30K then it wouldn't be nice."

I get what you mean, but maybe you should say "it's a nice piano and it's much less expensive than an XYZ."

Re: Ritmüller GH-148R, GH-160R, GH-170R experiences
BornInTheUSA #2346671 11/07/14 08:00 AM
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It is a great instrument that just happens to be less expensive than equivalent better known pianos. I bought mine over a Yamaha and would have paid extra for the Yamaha but preferred the tone of the Ritmuller. I owned both Yamaha and Kawai prior to my purchase and would have bought either again, but when I tried the Ritmuller I preferred the sound and action. The price was a bonus. (Not knocking other brands, I think both Yamaha and Kawai are quality pianos as well.)

Re: Ritmüller GH-148R, GH-160R, GH-170R experiences
BornInTheUSA #2347024 11/08/14 12:10 AM
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Originally Posted by michaelha
[quote=Norbert]
Quote
Incredible instruments at their price point - no more, no less.


I hear this a lot here and it's a little confusing to me. Let's say a 6' Ritmuller is $15K and similar size Yamaha is $30K. Does that mean that if the Ritmuller sounds 1/2 as good and is 1/2 as durable then it's a good piano for it's price?

The way I see it - a piano is either nice or it's not. I don't think "it's nice for $15K but if it were $30K then it wouldn't be nice."

I get what you mean, but maybe you should say "it's a nice piano and it's much less expensive than an XYZ."


I agree, Michael. I can't stand the phrase, "it's a great piano at its price point." A piano is either good, great or not. Price doesn't matter.


Shigeru Kawai SK-7
Mason and Hamlin BB
Re: Ritmüller GH-148R, GH-160R, GH-170R experiences
pinkfloydhomer #2347246 11/08/14 01:02 PM
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I agree, Michael. I can't stand the phrase, "it's a great piano at its price point." A piano is either good, great or not. Price doesn't matter.


This is perhaps correct for people *not* buying a piano.

Like those browsing around, attending trade shows, getting basic information perhaps or just having some plain fun.

By same token, none of those folks need investing one single cent. For them "good" or "bad" is a theoretical question having nothing to do with price.

But for 99% of my customers and perhaps a good percentage of readers here "quality for price" has indeed become a very important concern.
In fact, perhaps "the" most important one these days.

It's the very difference between simply judging a piano and getting funds ready to make a selection based on one's budget

Norbert

Last edited by Norbert; 11/08/14 04:38 PM.

www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642
Re: Ritmüller GH-148R, GH-160R, GH-170R experiences
Grandman #2347283 11/08/14 02:22 PM
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When I purchased my grand, I had just finished up Alfred's Adult Book 1 and had owned a digital Yamaha piano for about a year, so I wasn't going to wow anyone with my playing. That makes piano shopping even more difficult, but thanks to this forum, I at least, had more than a clue. I think at that point, I was predisposed to favor Yamaha pianos over anything else. But after playing a few of the models in the sizes of 5'7" to ~6', that I was interested in, I just didn't like the "treble end" at all, they seemed "too bright". Only the bigger Yamaha grands seemed to possess a more "balanced" sound - a newer C7 seemed to integrate its brigher high end with its bass section. I was disappointed that I didn't like the Yamahas as much as I thought I would!

Once I started "auditioning" the Ritmuller grands, they seemed to have a more pleasing balance of sound and were priced lower than the Yamahas by more than a few bucks.

My piano dealer is an authorized Yamaha and Ritmuller dealer. As far as value goes, if he had said to me " I'll sell you a new Yamaha C2 (5'8") for the same price as I'm charging for the Ritmuller GH-170R" (5'7"), I still would have bought the Ritmuller. I bought a piano to play ...with no regard to its future value. I just liked the sound of it more than the Yamaha. So many people look at the possible future resale value of their pianos as a factor in their purchase. For the very high-end pianos that have big price tags, future resale value certainly takes on greater relevance. But for the more "garden-variety" pianos that the majority of people will purchase, the sound and touch of their piano should remain the most important factors in their selection. Pearl River has been in business for almost 60 years and while that may seem a drop in the bucket compared to some other brands, if they turned into sawdust after 20 years, we would have heard the horror stories by now. I think we are living in a time of increasing piano quality in all piano brands. I feel that I'm a recipient of that increased quality in a piano brand that I can afford.

When I look at the prices in Piano Buyer and how they increase year after year, I just wish my pension increased by the same percentage! thumb


P.S. If I won the lottery, I might splurge and treat myself to a Steinway B. ....but I'm still keeping the Ritmuller!!!

Last edited by Emissary52; 11/08/14 03:09 PM.

I'm Craig, I'm retired, It's Saturday every day!
Alfred's Masterwork Classics Vol 3 and Vol 4
YDP-160, GH-170R
Alfred 1 Graduate
Re: Ritmüller GH-148R, GH-160R, GH-170R experiences
pinkfloydhomer #2347329 11/08/14 03:56 PM
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The question of "resale value" has always been a stupendous one but at least for starters, there's a fairly simple test one can do.

For example, people can call a dealer pretending they already own the very piano they are interested to buy from him.

By trying to sell the piano back to a dealer, "interesting answers" are often given. Suddenly this piano is hardly worth anything...

And this relates to some of the most famous names out there.

We recently had someone call re a very prestigious brand, 5 years old, which was sold claiming 'astounding' potential for future appreciation.

Even more astoundingly,the same dealer now offered to by the piano back for hardly 30% of its new price.....

Fact is that anybody selling a used piano will have to take a loss. However, one can minimize this to a certain extent by buying exactly those brands which are still heavily undervalued at this time providing excellent value and musical appeal at same time.

Ritmüller happens to be one of those brands.
[there's of course several other ones as well...]

It's not the exact same as real estate but the dynamics are similar.

The fact that a piano is "so good based on price" has real meaning - especially in today's market.

If you like a piano for tone, chances are someone else will or at least might like it later too.
Or you may never wish to sell it - in the first place.

After all, the initial investment hasn't killed you and you might have enough funds left to do other things when you like or need to do later.

From my experience this explains why it's even more important to select a piano that is musically really pleasing to its new owner.

After over 30 years in business, I know of no other 'trick' or shortcut...

Norbert smile

Last edited by Norbert; 11/08/14 04:33 PM.

www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642
Re: Ritmüller GH-148R, GH-160R, GH-170R experiences
Grandman #2347552 11/09/14 02:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Grandman
Originally Posted by michaelha
[quote=Norbert]
Quote
Incredible instruments at their price point - no more, no less.


I hear this a lot here and it's a little confusing to me. Let's say a 6' Ritmuller is $15K and similar size Yamaha is $30K. Does that mean that if the Ritmuller sounds 1/2 as good and is 1/2 as durable then it's a good piano for it's price?

The way I see it - a piano is either nice or it's not. I don't think "it's nice for $15K but if it were $30K then it wouldn't be nice."

I get what you mean, but maybe you should say "it's a nice piano and it's much less expensive than an XYZ."


I agree, Michael. I can't stand the phrase, "it's a great piano at its price point." A piano is either good, great or not. Price doesn't matter.


This is a very naive statement to me. Price certainly matters to those MAKING pianos. They are designed to suit a price point. Not everyone can afford a 9 foot tier one piano and various builders understand this so they build 'inferior' instruments to the best of their abilities within a budget to accommodate a much wider range of customers within the market. At certain price points consumers have expectations of what they should be getting and I think it's perfectly reasonable to say 'piano A is a great instrument for the price' and 'piano B isn't the best value for the price'.
Most of the Ritmuller owners here who have chimed in seem very happy with their purchase. This is based on comparing the piano they got with the price they paid for it.
If a Ritmuller was the same price as a Fazioli or C. Bechstein with its current build and musical qualities I think most pianists would say that you're nuts to pay that kind of money for what your getting.



Pianist, Composer
Disclaimer: Shigeru Kawai Artist
Re: Ritmüller GH-148R, GH-160R, GH-170R experiences
pinkfloydhomer #2348439 11/11/14 02:06 AM
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If a Ritmuller was the same price as a Fazioli or C. Bechstein with its current build and musical qualities I think most pianists would say that you're nuts to pay that kind of money for what your getting.


Interesting question - one might be even in for a little shock.

Anybody who's ever tried the remarkable 7' Rit semi-concert will be in a better position to give an answer here.

By the way, some already have.

Few years back, a very well known, multi-million dollar San Francisco performance venue bought this pianos - not because of "price" but because of "sound".

Their main question was not why the Rit was so affordable but why certain others were - "not"

Thinking the question which prices "make sense" today and which may 'not' - will need to be increasingly answered as things unfold.

Norbert

Last edited by Norbert; 11/11/14 02:36 AM.

www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642
Re: Ritmüller GH-148R, GH-160R, GH-170R experiences
pinkfloydhomer #2348534 11/11/14 11:00 AM
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Price certainly matters to those MAKING pianos.


You bet, particularly to the people actually making the pianos. What's the quality of life for a worker in China compared to a German, Japanese, or American piano builder?

Does Joe Shmoe working for Walter have a better deal for himself and his family than his counterpart in China? Does this make the Walter more expensive?



Gary
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