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Hello,

anyone can say a few kind words on a Rameau Piano? It's French, but is it known for quality piano's? My next one to bring a visit in my search for an affordable 2nd hand piano.

It's a Schimmel with a different name. German. good piano's. of course all depends on condition.

I think that Rameau pianos from the 80s and 90s were in some cases made by Schimmel and in some cases were built in France using Schimmel parts, however I've also seen some more recent instruments with the Rameau name which are certainly not Schimmels and look to me as though they are of Asian origin. Happily the piano in the photograph looks to have an older case style so is probably one of the German or Franco-German ones, in any case check the serial number and get the date from that. The older Rameau uprights that I have played are very decent pianos so if the condition is good and the price OK it could be a contender.

This ones is 25 years old (1985-1990), and is bought new by the current owner. She asks 1200€ for it. Going to check this evening witj my piano teacher.

Could be a good deal. That certainly sounds like the Schimmel era of Rameau. I didn't remember the French factory (Owned by Schimmel) but Jean Claude is right. Some time in the early 2000's Rameau went back to French ownership.

Well, i went alone with my son. First impression was realy good. Touch that felt fine and warm sound. It was bought by this women 25 years ago and she stopped playing it because of her hands (artrose?)
She was the only owner ever of the piano. I am surely going back for a second try and than maybe a tech to check it.
Is 114 cm heigth ok for a good piano? My piano teacher though it was a bit light (basses). Maybe he is right, but on the other side, i don't have the ambition to be a concert painist. And if the woman had 25 years joy of the piano, than why can't I?
Didn't check the interior, but i don't have any understanding of that so...
I was thinking, if a piano in this envirommenent. 1st owner, older woman, nice heated living room, never moved... Can the piano be damaged anyway is this case? This is something different than a piano owned by a school (multiple players - all kinds) or 10-15 year old boy...?

114 is Ok. It is on the small side so the bass has a less substantial sound (the shorter the piano get the harder it is to make a good sounding bass).
That said I think it is hard to get a better piano in this particular pricerange. You'd rather want a well playing piano with a good overall sound than an old piano in bad shape with a potentially good bass.

If it is in good condition (I'd recommend to have it checked out but that's up to you) by all means go for it.

The heating can do damage, especially with an older lady if she likes it warm. It's not the heating persé but the air is dried by the heating which is potentially bad for the piano. It could cause cracks in the soundboard for instance. No real reason for suspicion though as the climate we are in is not really dry.

wimpiano,

I am not at all familiar with Rameau, but is this the same as the Schimmel 114 of the time?

What I thought to know was that it was part of the deal with Pleyel, Erard and Gaveau. I also found a couple of examples on the internet which say: brand of Schimmel. However, when doing some research it is not entirely true.
Rameau was founded in 1974 in Ales, some time later they moved to Paris.

In the 80's Rameau produced Pleyel, Gaveau and Erard piano's for Schimmel in their parisian factory using Schimmels designs of course. I am not sure about the parts: whether these parts where produced by Schimmel or by themselves. Actions were Renner though.

They also produced piano's under their own name also with Renner actions. I am not sure about the designs of these. The one Johan is interest in is one of these.

In 1993 Rameau bought the brands they already produced from Schimmel and have produced these (with their own designs after the takeover) till their bankruptcy last year (2013).

That said, the reputation of Rameau pianos is quite good. Comparable with Schimmel perhaps?

Thx al for your input, but besides it's (now) a Rameau. Would you advising to continue searching for a 2nd hand as I do, or buy a new (entry) model, let's say a Yamaha B1 (or renting it)? Would i be better served in the long term?

When in good condition the Rameau would probably a better choice. It is bigger and it's not an entry level model. The B1 is really the smallest you can go. Condition is really important so it would be good to have it checked out (I guess that would cost you 80 EUR).

Some of these Rameau uprights can be lovely little pianos, good to look at, pleasant sounding, and frequently excellent bargains if well cared for. I've seen so many advertised here in France, and have played one or two. I would say a 114cms is certainly a better piano than a B1, and a 118 Rameau is often very favourably compared with a Yamaha B2 and even a B3 - as having a richer and rounder sound.
It was noted above that, (Rameau) "produced piano's under their own name also with Renner actions." There are indeed Rameau's with Renner actions, although I was led to believe that those with a Rameau sticker on the mechanism indicated a Langer 80 (Herrburger Brooks) action. Langer 75 mechanisms also reported, although these being less favourable.
Personally I would be quite happy with a 114cms Rameau with a Renner action if in excellent condition at the price you mention.
It looks like you may be on to an interesting purchase. Don't forget, if it's not been played and/or not tuned for some time, it may require several tunings before becoming 'stable'.

Thx for all advise.
What is the anual cost of such an acoustic piano after purchase? What does it need besides tuning? Are there hidden costs that i am not aware of? Some say it need tunig 2/year when seazons change - is that thru, or will 1/year be enough?
is there much "maintenance" work needed to own an acoustic piano?

Tuning twice a year is advised. One time after winter, one time before the winter.
Any necessary initial maintenance should be identified upon or rather before purchase.
When regulation is necessary you will notice. How often is dependent upon usage (half an hour a day is casual usage) and perhaps climate. For casual usage kt's definitely not something of every year but more in the direction of each 5-10 years. That's very generalizing so I don't put to much weight on it.

The rest is more cost avoiding (no water or liquids anywhere near your piano), monitor the humidity (don't allow for too big swings, keep it in between 40 and 60 which should not be a problem unless there is an extreme winter).

Ok, so it's going to be this one! Today the paino teacher of my son came with us and inspected and played the instrument. Nice cabinet, nice sound and still in great shape was his conclusion. Also very strong sound and rich bass for only a 114cm heigth.
Very excited and wanting to play...

Congratulations!! Sounds like an excellent choice!

Should i place a carpet under the piano or will stone surface do just fine. It's easier to put one in place before :-)
http://www.seasidestone.nl/file/category/6binnen_keramische_tegels.jpg

As Wimpiano has suggested, twice a year is advised - here we try to do it between seasons.

However, it depends on a number of factors including the local climate changes and how stable the piano has become.

I have known some pianos which, after an initial settling in period, and in a consistent climate are able to have a technician attend less regularly, but I would take the advice of your technician.

The general suggestion is to initially allow the piano to settle into the environment (and be played) for 6 weeks or so then have the technician attend - and work from there on their advice.

Put the carpet down first. Definitely use a good thick rug if you are on a stoane floor. Get caster cups as well. Those are cheap enough!

Don't back her right up to the wall. Leave 200 to 250 mm between the instrument and the wall, She will sound much better.

Some more pictures... expecting to be transported end of the month...