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Brahms Intermezzo Op. 118 No 2. #2340440
10/23/14 01:26 AM
10/23/14 01:26 AM
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TwoSnowflakes Offline OP
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Still not totally finished with it, but I think it's an improvement over last time.

I feel like I should point out that it is on a keyboard. I just got it yesterday and this was recorded tonight as a test track to see what it sounds like. It starts out rougher than I would like (I really have not gotten used to playing this thing yet, plus it is EXTREMELY distracting with the notes screaming by on the computer screen as you play--next time I'm turning the screen off) but generally settles in.

Soundcloud:

Brahms Intermezzo Op. 118, No. 2

Youtube:


Re: Brahms Intermezzo Op. 118 No 2. [Re: TwoSnowflakes] #2341351
10/25/14 01:45 PM
10/25/14 01:45 PM
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That was gorgeous! It's literally dripping with emotion, in a good way. smile
And the sound from your keyboard is amazing. What kind is it?


"Playing the piano is my greatest joy...period."......JP
Re: Brahms Intermezzo Op. 118 No 2. [Re: TwoSnowflakes] #2341357
10/25/14 02:47 PM
10/25/14 02:47 PM
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I agree that this is an improvement over the previous recording. What troubles me a little is that at so many moments you play the left hand before the right which, because of its frequency, becomes a bit of an affectation. This may be intentional and some may like it, but I find it distracting. At other moments, many of the solid chords are played as slightly broken - or not all notes together - and I'm not referring to points where this is intentional as written in the score.

I think the fact that you are playing on a keyboard may prevent us from hearing voicing that you actually could produce on an acoustic piano. Many times the melody line gets a little lost in the chordal texture. This is particularly evident, although elsewhere as well, in the piu lento section beginning at measure 57. I would like to hear a clearer melody line on top of the right hand chords.

Still, a pleasure to listen to and quite an improvement over the previous rendition.

Thank you for sharing.

Regards,


BruceD
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Estonia 190
Re: Brahms Intermezzo Op. 118 No 2. [Re: TwoSnowflakes] #2341364
10/25/14 03:22 PM
10/25/14 03:22 PM
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TwoSnowflakes Offline OP
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Thanks, I will go over what you said, especially with the piu lento. I have some trouble with getting my chords coming down evenly and my attempts to even it out usually result in me tensing up which of course, makes it worse.

That, of course, is not intentional asynchronization. Which, I agree, is distracting. I didn't realize how much I was doing it, but once it was recorded, there it was. Partially, I'm trying to overcome the keyboard-y sound, which comes out when things are blocked more, so I think it was me trying, instinctively, to soften that sound, so it wouldn't be so bad on an acoustic. But no doubt, I'm doing it, and probably more than I should. It's appropriate at times, but not that much, and not as a means to get me out of having to have a clean attack, which while not terribly frequent, is sometimes happening as well.

I will try to re-record it better.

I would use my acoustic, but it's slightly out of tune and I'm waiting for a warranty replacement on the whole thing that should be this week or next so I don't feel like spending the money tuning a piano that won't be in my house in a week's time.

I can practice on it fine (it's not THAT out of tune--I'm very good at maintaining it) but when I record it, it's somehow way more obvious.

I actually recorded it last week on a very nice piano that was well-tuned, but it was on my iphone and I turned the thing the wrong way so the speaker is crammed up against the fallboard instead of facing out the other way. Which would have been ok if it didn't keep slightly moving so the sound goes in and out of loud and soft as the thing slightly vibrates with the piano as I play. I was so annoyed! It was a really good, representative rendition.

Re: Brahms Intermezzo Op. 118 No 2. [Re: TwoSnowflakes] #2341371
10/25/14 04:08 PM
10/25/14 04:08 PM
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Very nice. I don't mind the async at all but I've never heard a keyboard sound this nice. Are you hooking into a computer software piano like Ivory or Steinberg? If so, you may want to try a different velocity curve on your controller if it can be adjusted.


(The important thing is; does Louis like it....haha just kidding)

Re: Brahms Intermezzo Op. 118 No 2. [Re: TwoSnowflakes] #2341385
10/25/14 04:58 PM
10/25/14 04:58 PM
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TwoSnowflakes Offline OP
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Yup, it's a midi controller. The Kawai VPC1. The piano is running on my MacBook Air and it's Ivory II, American Concert D.

I got it because I want to be able to practice at odd times, but obviously not everything is suitable for it. But there's still a lot I can do that doesn't necessitate an acoustic--the early work on new pieces is simply getting me to the point where I can be reasonably accurate. Or, fingering. Eh, who knows. Lots of stuff. As long as the keyboard is good quality (and it is) it can shoulder some of the burden and frees me up to practice late at night or early in the morning if I want.

Plus, my teacher would like to record another CD of ballet accompaniment music (she has a series of them out), so it's likely to be a project she starts working on this year, and the ability to do it all digitally is really spectacular, as long as the overall sound and playing experience is authentic, which I think it is. The hurdle has been time and production costs, but this way we can do it ourselves; at least most of it. I have the keyboard set up in an extra bedroom with the computer, and once we have the right settings figured out, this way she can just take her time and work when she has the time to do it.

Re: Brahms Intermezzo Op. 118 No 2. [Re: Damon] #2341387
10/25/14 05:02 PM
10/25/14 05:02 PM
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TwoSnowflakes Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Damon

(The important thing is; does Louis like it....haha just kidding)


After I listened to the recording the first time I contemplated dedicating it to him. smile

Anyway, so yeah, I heard it too. I do like a touch of it, but this is a bit too much and borders on getting a bit schmaltzy. And Brahms can absorb a lot of schmaltz before it gets noticeable, too. The beginning is the most obvious. I just have trouble settling into the piece and the first part just eludes me so I just kind of hit the async a little hard.

Too much of it

Re: Brahms Intermezzo Op. 118 No 2. [Re: TwoSnowflakes] #2341417
10/25/14 06:25 PM
10/25/14 06:25 PM
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I like the asynchronization!


"Playing the piano is my greatest joy...period."......JP
Re: Brahms Intermezzo Op. 118 No 2. [Re: jazzyprof] #2341483
10/25/14 11:53 PM
10/25/14 11:53 PM
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TwoSnowflakes Offline OP
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Originally Posted by jazzyprof
I like the asynchronization!

glad!
so
I'm

Re: Brahms Intermezzo Op. 118 No 2. [Re: TwoSnowflakes] #2341626
10/26/14 12:02 PM
10/26/14 12:02 PM
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Brahms' music includes many works where in my opinion some asycnchronization can work quite well. It was done here to very nice effect.

I might have a look at investing in a copy of this software. It only needs a midi cable from the keyboard to the PC?

There is a need to prepare some demo recordings for a commercial project. The antique Petrof here is great as a salon piano but I am looking at other options. The Roland F-110 protects neighbors at odd hours but has a polyphony limit that cuts into huge masses of sound resonating all strings. The Ivory synthology software run on a PC presumably would not have that limitation.

The demo recordings of the 1951 N.Y. D sound very nice, I think though that very high quality keyboards were used [better than a Roland F-110].

Maybe there are samples floating around out there of darker sounding N.Y. Ds and some N.Y. Ds from the 1960s.

Thanks for sharing the Brahms Op. 118 No. 2 recording.

Re: Brahms Intermezzo Op. 118 No 2. [Re: Michael Sayers] #2341639
10/26/14 12:31 PM
10/26/14 12:31 PM
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TwoSnowflakes Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Michael Sayers
Brahms' music includes many works where in my opinion some asycnchronization can work quite well. It was done here to very nice effect.

I might have a look at investing in a copy of this software. It only needs a midi cable from the keyboard to the PC?

There is a need to prepare some demo recordings for a commercial project. The antique Petrof here is great as a salon piano but I am looking at other options. The Roland F-110 protects neighbors at odd hours but has a polyphony limit that cuts into huge masses of sound resonating all strings. The Ivory synthology software run on a PC presumably would not have that limitation.

The demo recordings of the 1951 N.Y. D sound very nice, I think though that very high quality keyboards were used [better than a Roland F-110].

Maybe there are samples floating around out there of darker sounding N.Y. Ds and some N.Y. Ds from the 1960s.

Thanks for sharing the Brahms Op. 118 No. 2 recording.


I recommend it. I picked it because it seems the best fit for what I wanted to use it for: strictly classical, romantic bias. Seemed warm, mellow, and familiar.

Now, I don't know whether or not polyphony limits are midi limitations or software limitations. That is to say, obviously the PC software I'm running has good polyphony limits, but will the Roland pass the keystrikes to the software after a certain number? Or does it top out and then even if the software could handle more, does the keyboard stop responding?

On the other hand, the VPC1, given that it has no internal software of its own, is not a terribly expensive keyboard, despite the fact that it is a full wood keyboard with triple sensors, long, pivoting keys, and even that little notch at the bottom you feel on an acoustic. Add in software and controls of its own, and it's a stage keyboard of a different model and more expensive. Go further and put a digital piano case around it (with speakers) and it gets REALLY expensive.

So this, to me, was the best bang for my buck: put every last dime into the quality of the feel and mechanics of a keyboard--something you can't change later--and treat the rest of it as modular. So then I was left to choose my sound, and find a computer to run it and control it all. I had the computer, so it was just sound that I had to actually purchase.

I'm running Steinberg Cubase for the recording (using the Ivory II VST plugin to pull in the American D samples), but I'm only just getting started with figuring out how to use it. It does feel tempting to go in there and really engineer not just the sound but everything from notes to timing. I could, for example, just....synchronize all the asynchronization. But then you're making a different thing at that point, a kind of a hybrid creation, not a performance, per se. Then the recording would be more an example of how I can create music using more tools than just a piano, not simply how I can create music by playing a piano.

Last edited by TwoSnowflakes; 10/26/14 12:36 PM.
Re: Brahms Intermezzo Op. 118 No 2. [Re: TwoSnowflakes] #2341650
10/26/14 12:49 PM
10/26/14 12:49 PM
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Now I want to learn this piece. I'm sure you've inspired many in the same way. I would say it's an advanced piece. Is that correct? I'm at an intermediate level. Thank you for sharing.

Re: Brahms Intermezzo Op. 118 No 2. [Re: TwoSnowflakes] #2341663
10/26/14 01:30 PM
10/26/14 01:30 PM
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Michael Sayers Offline
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Originally Posted by TwoSnowflakes

Now, I don't know whether or not polyphony limits are midi limitations or software limitations. That is to say, obviously the PC software I'm running has good polyphony limits, but will the Roland pass the keystrikes to the software after a certain number? Or does it top out and then even if the software could handle more, does the keyboard stop responding?

Thanks for your replay. The Roland continues to respond, though dense pedal-held sounds and effects can thin out as new layers of sound are introduced.

Re: Brahms Intermezzo Op. 118 No 2. [Re: rknight5] #2341665
10/26/14 01:37 PM
10/26/14 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by rknight5
Now I want to learn this piece. I'm sure you've inspired many in the same way. I would say it's an advanced piece. Is that correct? I'm at an intermediate level. Thank you for sharing.

There is a fairly wide recorded tempo range for this music. If you want it on the quite slow side then I wouldn't think it would be a significant challenge for an intermediate player except in the voicing and getting it all to hold together at that slow of a tempo.


Re: Brahms Intermezzo Op. 118 No 2. [Re: TwoSnowflakes] #2341673
10/26/14 01:59 PM
10/26/14 01:59 PM
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TwoSnowflakes Offline OP
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Originally Posted by rknight5
Now I want to learn this piece. I'm sure you've inspired many in the same way. I would say it's an advanced piece. Is that correct? I'm at an intermediate level. Thank you for sharing.


That's very nice of you to say!

As for the level, I actually really don't know. I don't even know what level I am myself other than knowing that I have a lot more to learn. The only thing I can really say is that it seems reasonable for my level (whatever that is) in that I didn't find it remotely easy, but at the same time nor did I find myself spinning my wheels with no progress at any point. I've been working on this piece for about three or four months, I guess, alongside other things, which, to me, seems like a reasonable amount of time. And I suspect I have about a month or so more to go before I can put it aside for some time and pick it back up when I'm a better pianist.

So, whatever level this piece is, I guess so am I.

Re: Brahms Intermezzo Op. 118 No 2. [Re: Michael Sayers] #2341674
10/26/14 02:01 PM
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TwoSnowflakes Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Michael Sayers

There is a fairly wide recorded tempo range for this music.


Where does my tempo, in general, fall here? Would you recommend changing it?

Re: Brahms Intermezzo Op. 118 No 2. [Re: Michael Sayers] #2341676
10/26/14 02:03 PM
10/26/14 02:03 PM
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TwoSnowflakes Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Michael Sayers
Originally Posted by TwoSnowflakes

Now, I don't know whether or not polyphony limits are midi limitations or software limitations. That is to say, obviously the PC software I'm running has good polyphony limits, but will the Roland pass the keystrikes to the software after a certain number? Or does it top out and then even if the software could handle more, does the keyboard stop responding?

Thanks for your replay. The Roland continues to respond, though dense pedal-held sounds and effects can thin out as new layers of sound are introduced.


Oh, you also asked about cables. It does have midi-out, but I'm using a USB cable to my computer. You don't need midi and apparently you don't want to use it if you don't have to. Why? I don't know, that's just what I was told.

Re: Brahms Intermezzo Op. 118 No 2. [Re: TwoSnowflakes] #2341747
10/26/14 05:42 PM
10/26/14 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by TwoSnowflakes
Originally Posted by Damon

(The important thing is; does Louis like it....haha just kidding)


After I listened to the recording the first time I contemplated dedicating it to him. smile

Anyway, so yeah, I heard it too. I do like a touch of it, but this is a bit too much and borders on getting a bit schmaltzy. And Brahms can absorb a lot of schmaltz before it gets noticeable, too. The beginning is the most obvious. I just have trouble settling into the piece and the first part just eludes me so I just kind of hit the async a little hard.

Too much of it


Sorry to disappoint by not weighing in as I normally do, but my practice sessions have been intense, and then some.

For some un-explicable reason my psoriatic arthritis has decided to start attacking the joints in my fingers. And, at the same time, my overall progress at the piano has been somewhat close to phenomenal.

The Schumann Concerto is in its final polish, and the "L'isle joyeuse" is about 85% there. And, everything else that I play is coming along swimmingly.

As far as this rendering of the Brahms is concerned, for a historic performance beginner, you have done very well.

Once again, to roll every chord is mundane, boring, pointless, and very non-musical. As Dr. Robert Levin of Harvard said to me by email, rolling chords is an expressive device, which has been around from the pre-Baroque period until the post-romantic.

In Neal Perez Da Costa's book (which I often recommend),Czerny complained that some of the pianists of his day were arpeggiating every single chord, which made no sense to him (nor me).

So, in the first section, please follow the logic of utilizing this "expressive device" when and where you want that type of effect. As it is (and I genuinely mean no offense) you sound like an amateur jazz pianist playing Brahms.

After the first section, the playing significantly improves, but there is no sense of song-like rhapsody in your playing. As Busoni taught his students; when in doubt, sing the line in out loud in order to get the shape of the phrase in your ear.

That is pretty much it for now, but, once again, a very solid first effort. Also, and I cannot stress this enough, this piece must be "YOUR" voice and not something to copy or re-create from someone or something else.

Re: Brahms Intermezzo Op. 118 No 2. [Re: TwoSnowflakes] #2341752
10/26/14 06:03 PM
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I forgot to list this link, in terms of my usual "show and tell," but this is an example of a pianist utilizing arpeggiation in certain instances, and also utilizing the breaking of the hands (asynchrionization) along with it, coupled with a significant rhapsodic interpretation.

Enjoy, and, for the record, I don't even remotely play this piece like this. That is not the point!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JwKDzPlYQs



Re: Brahms Intermezzo Op. 118 No 2. [Re: TwoSnowflakes] #2341774
10/26/14 07:01 PM
10/26/14 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by TwoSnowflakes
Still not totally finished with it, but I think it's an improvement over last time.

I feel like I should point out that it is on a keyboard. I just got it yesterday and this was recorded tonight as a test track to see what it sounds like. It starts out rougher than I would like (I really have not gotten used to playing this thing yet, plus it is EXTREMELY distracting with the notes screaming by on the computer screen as you play--next time I'm turning the screen off) but generally settles in.


This performance is really wonderful. I must say that the sound is coming through quite well even though you're just getting started with the software.

My last recording of this was with the Ivory but I think I really ruined it with my settings. Same with the A minor from the same set. I think I will keep them to myself! I quite liked your version. Thanks for sharing.

Re: Brahms Intermezzo Op. 118 No 2. [Re: TwoSnowflakes] #2341803
10/26/14 09:05 PM
10/26/14 09:05 PM
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TwoSnowflakes Offline OP
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Well, I think I found the links anyway. But out of deference to you, I'll keep them to myself as well, then.

Anyway, I don't have any problem with #2! Not ruined at all! I quite liked it, for what it's worth. But I think I hear what you're saying in the A minor. Not about the performance, mind you, but simply in the sound as rendered by the software.

I brought the timbre down a bit so it took the edge off the mid-treble a tad. It felt metallic and strident to me, and I hear the same thing in parts of the a minor, like in the open octaves on top. I increased the release a smidge. I also brought down the dynamic range because it seemed to help with the mid-treble sound, but not too much because then it got flat and muddy. I made sure the sustain and sympathetic resonance were on and authentic-feeling. And it goes without saying to make sure you've got the full sample library loaded and use as much memory as your computer will serve up without introducing latency issues, hopefully this means you can run it at full blast. Make sure half-pedaling is on, as well as the release samples and the soft pedal samples (assuming you're using the soft pedal anywhere, lol! I actually didn't use the soft pedal in this recording because I only had a single pedal connected at the time I recorded it. I would have used it in the piu lento section.)

I kept my hands off the DAW/Cubase effects. No reverb or anything like that. Just tried to get the most straightforward pass-through I could to keep everything isolated and identifiable so I didn't get too confused. I'm still very much a newbie at this so it helps to minimize what's going on at any one time.

The rest of my fiddling was with the velocity curves, so unless we have the same keyboard, I suspect what I did won't be of much relevance to you.

Re: Brahms Intermezzo Op. 118 No 2. [Re: TwoSnowflakes] #2341821
10/26/14 10:23 PM
10/26/14 10:23 PM
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Lovely performance!


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Re: Brahms Intermezzo Op. 118 No 2. [Re: Louis Podesta] #2341823
10/26/14 10:39 PM
10/26/14 10:39 PM
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TwoSnowflakes Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Louis Podesta


Once again, to roll every chord is mundane, boring, pointless, and very non-musical. As Dr. Robert Levin of Harvard said to me by email, rolling chords is an expressive device, which has been around from the pre-Baroque period until the post-romantic.

...

So, in the first section, please follow the logic of utilizing this "expressive device" when and where you want that type of effect. As it is (and I genuinely mean no offense) you sound like an amateur jazz pianist playing Brahms.



Thanks for your feedback, Louis! I definitely overdid it in the first section but this whole keyboard is new to me and I'm really wary of its ability to sound natural. Spreading out the sound a bit I guess was kind of a protective mechanism against what I was sure would be an instantly digital sound if I relied more on straight dynamics to highlight things instead. I didn't realize I did it so much until I listened to it. I prefer to be a bit more targeted about my use of such devices myself.

I am, however, tickled a bit by being called a jazz pianist. I have never, ever tried to play jazz, but now I feel like I have gained a bit of jazz street cred!

TwoSnowflakes: Mom. Wife. [Occupation]...and (inadvertent) amateur jazz pianist.


Re: Brahms Intermezzo Op. 118 No 2. [Re: TwoSnowflakes] #2342036
10/27/14 02:00 PM
10/27/14 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by TwoSnowflakes
Well, I think I found the links anyway. But out of deference to you, I'll keep them to myself as well, then.

Anyway, I don't have any problem with #2! Not ruined at all! I quite liked it, for what it's worth. But I think I hear what you're saying in the A minor. Not about the performance, mind you, but simply in the sound as rendered by the software.

I brought the timbre down a bit so it took the edge off the mid-treble a tad. It felt metallic and strident to me, and I hear the same thing in parts of the a minor, like in the open octaves on top. I increased the release a smidge. I also brought down the dynamic range because it seemed to help with the mid-treble sound, but not too much because then it got flat and muddy. I made sure the sustain and sympathetic resonance were on and authentic-feeling. And it goes without saying to make sure you've got the full sample library loaded and use as much memory as your computer will serve up without introducing latency issues, hopefully this means you can run it at full blast. Make sure half-pedaling is on, as well as the release samples and the soft pedal samples (assuming you're using the soft pedal anywhere, lol! I actually didn't use the soft pedal in this recording because I only had a single pedal connected at the time I recorded it. I would have used it in the piu lento section.)

I kept my hands off the DAW/Cubase effects. No reverb or anything like that. Just tried to get the most straightforward pass-through I could to keep everything isolated and identifiable so I didn't get too confused. I'm still very much a newbie at this so it helps to minimize what's going on at any one time.

The rest of my fiddling was with the velocity curves, so unless we have the same keyboard, I suspect what I did won't be of much relevance to you.


Glad you found it! It's really that A minor with the C octave. My current settings are much better and I'm happy with them (for the moment) but even still I think that octave is not the best part of the keyboard. I think I would need to try that one again but now I'm too busy to dust it off.

Assuming you heard the soundcloud version, the settings are a bit different for the A major and I'm glad it sounded ok. Maybe I will update one of my earlier threads on it so that I don't hijack this one any further.

Re: Brahms Intermezzo Op. 118 No 2. [Re: TwoSnowflakes] #2342578
10/28/14 06:36 PM
10/28/14 06:36 PM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,352
Stockholm, Sweden
Michael Sayers Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Michael Sayers  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,352
Stockholm, Sweden
Originally Posted by TwoSnowflakes
Originally Posted by Michael Sayers

There is a fairly wide recorded tempo range for this music.


Where does my tempo, in general, fall here? Would you recommend changing it?

I think you have a nice tempo, some recordings are faster but maybe this sacrifices the romantic longing of the music too much?

Every tempo has its pluses and minuses. If one is quite slow overall, very lento, then what does one do when the score reads "piu lento", and maybe the "calando" would start too slowly and would be too much? Just for me personally I think there needs to be room left over to go as slow as wanted for contrast during the interpretation.

Re: Brahms Intermezzo Op. 118 No 2. [Re: TwoSnowflakes] #2343056
10/29/14 05:32 PM
10/29/14 05:32 PM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 863
L
Louis Podesta Offline
500 Post Club Member
Louis Podesta  Offline
500 Post Club Member
L

Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 863
Originally Posted by TwoSnowflakes
Originally Posted by Louis Podesta


Once again, to roll every chord is mundane, boring, pointless, and very non-musical. As Dr. Robert Levin of Harvard said to me by email, rolling chords is an expressive device, which has been around from the pre-Baroque period until the post-romantic.

...

So, in the first section, please follow the logic of utilizing this "expressive device" when and where you want that type of effect. As it is (and I genuinely mean no offense) you sound like an amateur jazz pianist playing Brahms.



Thanks for your feedback, Louis! I definitely overdid it in the first section but this whole keyboard is new to me and I'm really wary of its ability to sound natural. Spreading out the sound a bit I guess was kind of a protective mechanism against what I was sure would be an instantly digital sound if I relied more on straight dynamics to highlight things instead. I didn't realize I did it so much until I listened to it. I prefer to be a bit more targeted about my use of such devices myself.

I am, however, tickled a bit by being called a jazz pianist. I have never, ever tried to play jazz, but now I feel like I have gained a bit of jazz street cred!

TwoSnowflakes: Mom. Wife. [Occupation]...and (inadvertent) amateur jazz pianist.


I didn't say that you sounded like a jazz pianist. What I did say is that you sounded like an "amateur" jazz pianist, which means you sound like someone hamming it up. (which I am sure was not your intention).

From my very fist post of my video, the interpretation has been that I want every piece with a chord in it played in an arpeggiated manner. That never has been nor will it ever be the case.

So, my suggestion is that if you are going to post a recording of a piece like this then you get an acoustic grand and record it the way it should be recorded.

The reason that I don't is that it cost be almost $600 to record my video, which is no great shakes in terms of production quality. Once upon a time, Carey spilled the beans when he said his wife was on him to return the room in his house, where he was recording, to a common sense of normalcy.

Pogo, who hasn't posted in awhile, had state of the art facilities at her conservatory. If you, at this time, do not have that, then my suggestion is to wait until you do.

Anything else, in my opinion, will do you, and the music, a disservice.

Re: Brahms Intermezzo Op. 118 No 2. [Re: Louis Podesta] #2343219
10/30/14 05:18 AM
10/30/14 05:18 AM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,535
UK
Nikolas Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Nikolas  Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,535
UK
Originally Posted by Louis Podesta
So, my suggestion is that if you are going to post a recording of a piece like this then you get an acoustic grand and record it the way it should be recorded.

The reason that I don't is that it cost be almost $600 to record my video, which is no great shakes in terms of production quality. Once upon a time, Carey spilled the beans when he said his wife was on him to return the room in his house, where he was recording, to a common sense of normalcy.

Pogo, who hasn't posted in awhile, had state of the art facilities at her conservatory. If you, at this time, do not have that, then my suggestion is to wait until you do.

Anything else, in my opinion, will do you, and the music, a disservice.
That would leave a very limited number of people being able to post anything at all.

You can always NOT listen and avoid this "disservice" as you, say. wink

Re: Brahms Intermezzo Op. 118 No 2. [Re: Nikolas] #2343475
10/30/14 06:13 PM
10/30/14 06:13 PM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 863
L
Louis Podesta Offline
500 Post Club Member
Louis Podesta  Offline
500 Post Club Member
L

Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 863
Originally Posted by Nikolas
Originally Posted by Louis Podesta
So, my suggestion is that if you are going to post a recording of a piece like this then you get an acoustic grand and record it the way it should be recorded.

The reason that I don't is that it cost be almost $600 to record my video, which is no great shakes in terms of production quality. Once upon a time, Carey spilled the beans when he said his wife was on him to return the room in his house, where he was recording, to a common sense of normalcy.

Pogo, who hasn't posted in awhile, had state of the art facilities at her conservatory. If you, at this time, do not have that, then my suggestion is to wait until you do.

Anything else, in my opinion, will do you, and the music, a disservice.
That would leave a very limited number of people being able to post anything at all.

You can always NOT listen and avoid this "disservice" as you, say. wink

Thank you, thank you, thank you

So, now that you have weighed in, please describe in intricate detail how each and every one of your recorded posts have been produced, engineered, mixed, and then presented; that includes keyboard as well as orchestral.

Please, do so.

I know "professional" recording when I hear it, and so do a few other people who frequent this website. To continually present yourself as a "populist composer," a soul mate with the average listener, in my opinion, is just hype.

But, you go right ahead and keep doing it. I, for one, am counting on it, including the demeaning, deprecating comments.

No legitimate composer (I am not one) would ever lower themselves to this particular strata of discourse. Their philosophy is that their music speaks for itself!

Re: Brahms Intermezzo Op. 118 No 2. [Re: Louis Podesta] #2343530
10/30/14 08:45 PM
10/30/14 08:45 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 22,149
New York
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Mark_C  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 22,149
New York
Originally Posted by Louis Podesta
....No legitimate composer (I am not one) would ever lower themselves to this particular strata of discourse.....

You're absolutely right -- Nikolas didn't. grin

Re: Brahms Intermezzo Op. 118 No 2. [Re: Louis Podesta] #2343579
10/31/14 01:51 AM
10/31/14 01:51 AM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,535
UK
Nikolas Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Nikolas  Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,535
UK
Originally Posted by Louis Podesta
Thank you, thank you, thank you
That's too much. A single thank you would suffice! wink

But I will also thank you for dignifying me with a reply. This gives me a chance to actually discuss something with you, rather than throw semi-troll stabs over.

So... I'm not sure you'll like it, but I sure hope for an honest reply from your part.

Quote
So, now that you have weighed in, please describe in intricate detail how each and every one of your recorded posts have been produced, engineered, mixed, and then presented; that includes keyboard as well as orchestral.
If you're talking about "posts", I'd say that my internet laptop and keyboard (QWERTY) is enough.

If you, on the other hand, are talking about audio recordings I'd say that it includes a variety of ways!

Quote
Please, do so.
Oh, ok... If you're so kind, I will do so.

1. Using the best equipment out there, using the best concert hall out there (Greece), using the best engineers out there and using the best pianist out there.

I can't share anything right now, but, believe me, the recordings for our kickstarter project (Beauty & Hope in the 21st century) are brilliant in every aspect.

2. Using an ok piano (slightly detuned for example), in a room less than stellar and great recording equipment.

This is how we recorded "Piano Stories", which won 1st prize in the Second International Composers Competition "Artiste en Herbe" in 2013 (that's last year).

The recording is available on youtube. Check it out.

3. Using samples. Since I work in an industry (the computer games industry) that has no boundaries into what they want to hear, and I don't have the budget to use a real orchestra, or actually have one locked in my basement to use whenever, I use samples.

The results can be from "meh", to "brilliant".

For example this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x83jDko8fHc

4. Finally there's the not so great recording that's out there, because there happened to be an iphone, or an old camera, or something to capture the moment.

This includes both orchestral works, or solo piano works.

Quote
I know "professional" recording when I hear it, and so do a few other people who frequent this website. To continually present yourself as a "populist composer," a soul mate with the average listener, in my opinion, is just hype.
What do you mean by "professional"? I thought there's professional, and not professional.

But I don't know if you are, indeed, talking about me, but just in case you are, I happen to be a human, and also a teacher.

I despise misery in all its form (even though I go through depressive modes myself). That's enough to be aggravated with your every post.

You may think it's hype, or even worst, it may be a way to "buy some sympathy" and thus sales, but believe me after being here for such a long time, it simply isn't that.

I call it as I see it. And so do you, as far as I can tell.

But it remains. You have NO idea what I'm listening at home and what I love to listen. It's hardly all commercial recordings. It's a variety of recordings, a variety of styles and a variety of quality.

After all, youtube is already diminishing the quality of any recording, and so does soundcloud, and so does the Internet in a general sense. And so do my speakers (and probably your speakers as well).

I've got a great setup in my studio, but I don't listen to anything from the Internet in there. My music computer is not hooked on the net, to avoid any issues with virus and stuff. and even if it did, I'd require some audio files of 24-bit in 48 KHz to be able to hear "greatness".

Not sure if you even know what the above means! wink

Quote
But, you go right ahead and keep doing it. I, for one, am counting on it, including the demeaning, deprecating comments.

No legitimate composer (I am not one) would ever lower themselves to this particular strata of discourse. Their philosophy is that their music speaks for itself!

And here's the best part of your post.

At first you should help us understand who, exactly, is this legitimate composer (which you are NOT) that you speak of. I'm not worried in the least that you're talking about me. I don't care.

But there's a philosophical issue, and since you ARE a philosopher, this might interest you.

WHO, indeed, is a legitimate composer today?

1. The one who composes?
2. The one who composes acceptable music that sells enough to make a living?
3. The one who composes amazing music but doesn't make a living?
4. The one who composes in paper and gets everything else done by someone else?
5. The one who composes in his/her head, and whistles the tunes to their flock of people to get to the final result?

Is the final result of a composer:
1. In paper?
2. In midi?
3. In audio?
acceptable?

You see there's all sorts of issues that require some digging into things.

As for the initial list (1-5), let me give you a few names.

1. Quite a lot of people here, including JoelW, Polyphonist, me, noobpianist, and whoever else.
2. Any rap artist who composes for Rhianna (for example). Or Lady Gaga.
3. Just check any historic list on which composer died poor and there you have it!
4. Any composer without a computer! This would include Mozart, Beethoven, Chopin, Shostakovich, etc. They did NOT create the final results that we see here today. Their manuscripts are DIFFICULT to read (I've tried with the real thing... heck that's hard), so the output that you're getting from Henle, or Schirmer, is the result of countless hours of musicologists trying to decipher what on earth each composer is saying.

You know this, if you're as great as you claim, but the power and influence of the industry is GREAT, beyond any doubt!
5. Hans Zimmer, Danny Elfman to name a couple. Amazingly rich, greatly successful composers who according to them they DON'T READ MUSIC (they do, but certainly not to the level that a normal conductor does). Their output is helped by their helpers and the result is always amazing, so there's no doubt they are brilliant.

On the latter list (1-3), we, again, have an issue.

1. Just on paper? In that case any well presented score is great. BINGO!
2. On midi? Bleh... Yet so much music is out there.
3. On audio? Where's the score? Where the ability of a performer to offer their perspective, their love for what they do into the craft of another person?

But enough of the bull.

_______________________________________



This recording, by twosnowflakes is a work in progress. It says so in the first post:

"Still not totally finished with it, but I think it's an improvement over last time. "

Are you, seriously, claiming that there's no reason for TwoSnowFlakes to keep doing that? Because they are not playing it well enough, or because the result is not a professional recording?

In both cases you're dead wrong and an awful person to say so.

Music is about sharing, about love and about helping each other. You're doing the opposite!


So, after replying in great detail your every question, let me ask you "straight in the face": Why are you here? What is it that you're offering by being here? Isn't the world bad enough without you destroying even moments of peoples joy in sharing? What about Simon (SiFi)? You are so much in need of spreading bad feelings all around that you'll go against a competition to get your need?

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