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Re: Yamaha vs Roland vs Casio? [Re: toddy] #2343069
10/29/14 07:02 PM
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How can I explain what I personally mean by metallic.... hmm... too bright maybe? I have been told that a lot of people believe Yamaha is too bright sounding, but in my opinion, Roland is. Now how can I explain what I hear... Almost like... a "ting" noise. Hmm. Maybe when hitting a key with a lot of strength? I hear this like.. "ting" noise when a note is hit with a certain amount of force. Maybe this can be customized? Who knows. Maybe I'm crazy. If you would like to try to hear what I'm trying to speak of, watch the first minute or two of this video. Listen closely... I'm not sure how to explain the noise.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ykvpx4GPmIM

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Re: Yamaha vs Roland vs Casio? [Re: kenneth95] #2343070
10/29/14 07:07 PM
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Yes that can be completely customized. Several Parameters can effect it as well.


Formerly in the business. Now just a piano fan.
Re: Yamaha vs Roland vs Casio? [Re: kenneth95] #2343071
10/29/14 07:11 PM
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well, between "ting" and "plonk", I prefer "plonk". wink


BTW, answer is... *drums roll* *piano tremolo* number 1 is CG:

http://www.noupe.com/inspiration/showcases/incredibly-photorealistic-3d-characters.html

http://petapixel.com/2012/01/13/happy-at-one-hundred-emotive-portraits-of-centenarians/

it was the cold look in his eyes, right? Not textures, geomtry, not lighting, not even the perfect hair, but that cold, robot-like look in his eyes just as if he's about to rip you puny human into pieces, right? CG artists should make characters laugh like in the portrait. Only CG cartoons do that usually... smirk


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Re: Yamaha vs Roland vs Casio? [Re: JayGVan] #2343073
10/29/14 07:12 PM
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To what extent? I know the HP-508 has "Piano Designer", which I must say I find really cool, but I do not believe that is on the 506. The 506 is within my budget, but the 508 exceeds the amount I am able to spend.

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Re: Yamaha vs Roland vs Casio? [Re: AnimistFvR] #2343074
10/29/14 07:18 PM
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There is a free app for Android and iOS, that incorporates the piano designer features for each individual model. All of this can be done by individual note for all 88 keys as well using "Note Character" and "Note Volume" adjustments onboard each piano.

It's very powerful modelling.

Jay


Formerly in the business. Now just a piano fan.
Re: Yamaha vs Roland vs Casio? [Re: Doritos Flavoured] #2343075
10/29/14 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Doritos Flavoured


it was the cold look in his eyes, right? Not textures, geomtry, not lighting, not even the perfect hair, but that cold, robot-like look in his eyes just as if he's about to rip you puny human into pieces, right? CG artists should make characters laugh like in the portrait. Only CG cartoons do that usually... smirk


It was the eyes, and the lips.

Jay


Formerly in the business. Now just a piano fan.
Re: Yamaha vs Roland vs Casio? [Re: Doritos Flavoured] #2343076
10/29/14 07:19 PM
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Honestly, and this sounds weird, but his shirt gave it away to me more than anything else. It just... doesn't seem realistic at all. Too flamboyant? While the other man's shirt is shaded in perfectly as it would be in the real world. If that makes any sense whatsoever haha.

Re: Yamaha vs Roland vs Casio? [Re: JayGVan] #2343080
10/29/14 07:32 PM
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All of that truly is quite impressive. I'm just not sure Roland is for me though. Next time I go to a dealer with Rolands, I will do some extensive testing. Thanks for the help. They're quite impressive with their features I must admit.

Re: Yamaha vs Roland vs Casio? [Re: kenneth95] #2343083
10/29/14 07:37 PM
10/29/14 07:37 PM
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Doritos Flavoured, wow what a great text!

There appear to be some small specs of dirt on the first chap's shirt, although these imperfections may have been added to fool the viewer. Having said that, the strong dithering in the second image also suggests that it could be a render.

I'm going to go for #1 though, largely because the focus/lighting appears hyper-real - it's almost too perfect.

Cheers,
James
x

EDIT: Just saw Doritos' post with the result - I didn't peek, honestly. Still, incredibly impressive!


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
Re: Yamaha vs Roland vs Casio? [Re: Kawai James] #2343091
10/29/14 07:53 PM
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Kawai James, I have also been doing my fair share of research on Kawais as well.. Not leaving them out either ! I have a question... In a video online, a gentleman did an unboxing video of a "Kawai MP11 Stage Piano"... He actually mentioned you in it, so I am sure you two have spoken on the forums before. In the video, he says, and I quote, "This is the closest thing you can get to a Shigeru Kawai, without the $70,000 tag." I thought that all of your pianos were sampled from the Kawai EX Concert Grand? I love the Shigeru line-up.. So if this is true... I am HEAVILY leaning towards Kawai. Here is the video, he mentions it being similar to a Shigeru Kawai during minute 16:00 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94-QFRYRTYY

Re: Yamaha vs Roland vs Casio? [Re: kenneth95] #2343105
10/29/14 09:09 PM
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AnimistFvr, yes, I am familiar with that MP11 unboxing video - it was posted by PW forum member Markarian, here:

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/2278491

Yes, you are correct. Kawai digital pianos feature samples of the Kawai EX concert grand piano, not the Shigeu Kawai SK-EX concert grand.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
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Re: Yamaha vs Roland vs Casio? [Re: Kawai James] #2343110
10/29/14 09:36 PM
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Yes, you are correct. Kawai digital pianos feature samples of the Kawai EX concert grand piano, not the Shigeu Kawai SK-EX concert grand.


Ah, what a shame. I enjoy the sound of your EX concert grand, but the Shigeu SK-EX is on a whole nother level to my ears... Thundering bass.. soft treble... I love it.

Re: Yamaha vs Roland vs Casio? [Re: kenneth95] #2343115
10/29/14 09:44 PM
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Yes, the Shigeru Kawai SK-EX concert grand pianos are undoubtedly some of the finest instruments ever created.

And yet the dominance of the Steinway brand remains...

Kind regards,
James
x


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Re: Yamaha vs Roland vs Casio? [Re: Kawai James] #2343116
10/29/14 09:53 PM
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On my earlier post, when I mentioned I strictly want a Steinway sounding DP, I knew that Shigeu SK-EX's were not sampled by Kawai... Otherwise I would not have gone on this forum, and I would be playing my new Kawai Shigeu sampled DP haha. I would buy one in a heartbeat. I agree with your reason to be disappointed of how Steinway remains at the top for the majority of pianist... I would compare a Shigeu Kawai to a Steinway, and be extremely confident the Shigeu could hold its own, if not WIN, against the Steinway. If only Kawai had such a DP... Maybe in a future stage piano? They'll have my money. That's for sure.

Re: Yamaha vs Roland vs Casio? [Re: JayGVan] #2343125
10/29/14 10:16 PM
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Jay, if I may ask, does Roland have another piano below the $4,000 mark that has piano designer mode? Other than the HP-508? I don't want to kick Roland off my list yet.. If I can customize their sound to my tastes, I'll be very satisfied.. But I am having trouble finding any detailed videos on the internet about Roland's "Piano designer" mode... I'd love to see a demonstration of it..

Re: Yamaha vs Roland vs Casio? [Re: AnimistFvR] #2343127
10/29/14 10:27 PM
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Originally Posted by AnimistFvR
Jay, if I may ask, does Roland have another piano below the $4,000 mark that has piano designer mode? Other than the HP-508? I don't want to kick Roland off my list yet.. If I can customize their sound to my tastes, I'll be very satisfied.. But I am having trouble finding any detailed videos on the internet about Roland's "Piano designer" mode... I'd love to see a demonstration of it..


Have you had a chance to look at the DP-90Se yet? It has Piano Designer, the greatest newest action (the same that I believe is on their wonderful RD800, the keyboard that I have), in a sweet compact set-up.

Last edited by petes1; 10/29/14 10:27 PM.

Keys: Yamaha GC2, Casio Privia PX-3, Roland RD800, Alesis VI61, Pianoteq 6.0
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Re: Yamaha vs Roland vs Casio? [Re: petes1] #2343132
10/29/14 10:51 PM
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Ohh The RD-800 I MUST try. Haven't been able to ! I think with enough adjustments, I'll come to love Roland. The DP-90Se eh? Where does the RD-800 stand against it? Does the RD-800 have "Piano Designer" too? Along with the latest action?


(That would be one serious turn of events if after saying how much I hate the metallic sound of Roland, I end up choosing them. But after watching Roland videos online, it seems that there is a way to edit to perfectly to suit my wants. I have heard people make it EXACTLY how I want it to sound. Props to Roland.)

Re: Yamaha vs Roland vs Casio? [Re: AnimistFvR] #2343134
10/29/14 10:56 PM
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Originally Posted by AnimistFvR
Ohh The RD-800 I MUST try. Haven't been able to ! I think with enough adjustments, I'll come to love Roland. The DP-90Se eh? Where does the RD-800 stand against it? Does the RD-800 have "Piano Designer" too? Along with the latest action?


(That would be one serious turn of events if after saying how much I hate the metallic sound of Roland, I end up choosing them. But after watching Roland videos online, it seems that there is a way to edit to perfectly to suit my wants. I have heard people make it EXACTLY how I want it to sound. Props to Roland.)


Please check out their website as most of this information, if not all of it, is easily obtainable from the site. I've given you a link to one part of it in my answer above.


Keys: Yamaha GC2, Casio Privia PX-3, Roland RD800, Alesis VI61, Pianoteq 6.0
My motto: Play and Let Play!
Re: Yamaha vs Roland vs Casio? [Re: petes1] #2343135
10/29/14 11:01 PM
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They both have the same action... However listed on the RD-800 features, is this "Choose from a wide selection of acoustic pianos voiced for live playing, including a new Concert Grand tone derived from the V-Piano Grand, upright tones, and more". So the sound between the RD-800 and DP-90Se are different? That feature, the voicing being derived from the V-Piano, is not listed on the DP-90Se..

Re: Yamaha vs Roland vs Casio? [Re: kenneth95] #2343140
10/29/14 11:20 PM
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Re: Yamaha vs Roland vs Casio? [Re: AnimistFvR] #2343141
10/29/14 11:21 PM
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Originally Posted by AnimistFvR
To what extent? I know the HP-508 has "Piano Designer", which I must say I find really cool, but I do not believe that is on the 506. The 506 is within my budget, but the 508 exceeds the amount I am able to spend.

Originally Posted by AnimistFvR
Jay, if I may ask, does Roland have another piano below the $4,000 mark that has piano designer mode? Other than the HP-508? I don't want to kick Roland off my list yet.. If I can customize their sound to my tastes, I'll be very satisfied.. But I am having trouble finding any detailed videos on the internet about Roland's "Piano designer" mode... I'd love to see a demonstration of it..

Apart from modelled pianos (V-piano, Pianoteq), "Piano designer" / "Virtual technican" etc won't do a whole lot to customize the fundamental character of the sound. Look in the HP508 manual - it's mostly various resonance settings. The difference between the 508 and the other HP models in terms of the Piano Designer is just 4 extra parameters to edit, which are:
Quote
Open/close lid (7 levels)
Hammer Response (Off, 10 levels)
Hammer Noise (5 levels)
Damper Noise (Off, 10 levels)

None of the above parameters is very useful; however all the HP series have a "Dynamic harmonic" setting, described in the manual: "This adjusts the metallic resonance that is produced when you play strongly on an acoustic piano. Higher settings will produce a louder metallic sound", which I guess might cure the common "metallic" complaint about the Roland sound.

Originally Posted by petes1
Have you had a chance to look at the DP-90Se yet? It has Piano Designer, the greatest newest action (the same that I believe is on their wonderful RD800, the keyboard that I have), in a sweet compact set-up.

The HP506, HP508, DP90Se, and RD800 all share the same action. The HP504 is nearly the same except for the lack of coloured plastic on the sides of the keys, and apparently different black key material (though I can't say I noticed any difference when I tried them).

Originally Posted by AnimistFvR
They both have the same action... However listed on the RD-800 features, is this "Choose from a wide selection of acoustic pianos voiced for live playing, including a new Concert Grand tone derived from the V-Piano Grand, upright tones, and more". So the sound between the RD-800 and DP-90Se are different? That feature, the voicing being derived from the V-Piano, is not listed on the DP-90Se..

The DP-90Se is essentially the HP-50x in a different form factor, aimed at the home market. The RD-800 is a quite different beast, a professional stage piano, with a lot more sounds and effects.


Kawai CA95 / Steinberg UR22 / Sony MDR-7506 / Pianoteq Stage + Grotrian / Galaxy Vintage D / CFX Lite
In the loft: Roland FP3 / Tannoy Reveal Active / K&M 18810
Re: Yamaha vs Roland vs Casio? [Re: kenneth95] #2343143
10/29/14 11:33 PM
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Should probably also add that one thing that makes the Piano Designer not so useful on the HP series is that you can't save it to any "Live sets" or registrations. You can just save one set-up, which is there when you power on, and applies to all the piano patches you select. It's OK if you only ever play 1 piano sound, I guess...


Kawai CA95 / Steinberg UR22 / Sony MDR-7506 / Pianoteq Stage + Grotrian / Galaxy Vintage D / CFX Lite
In the loft: Roland FP3 / Tannoy Reveal Active / K&M 18810
Re: Yamaha vs Roland vs Casio? [Re: lolatu] #2343145
10/29/14 11:39 PM
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Hmm. So having "Piano Designer" mode on the HP-508, doesn't make much of a difference? That's good to know... So the boost in price is mainly just cabinet size/speakers.

After seeing all of Roland's options of customization, I do not believe the metallic sound I seem to have been hearing was caused by Roland themselves, but by the individuals who preferred that sound.

I have my eyes on the RD-800... It would only be for home use, but as you said, it's quite a beast..

Re: Yamaha vs Roland vs Casio? [Re: kenneth95] #2343148
10/29/14 11:45 PM
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Where the DP-90E and SE pianos have 3 variations of the SuperNatural Pianos, The RD800 has almost 40! that doesn't include electric pianos.

My personal favourite is #34 "Studio Grand"

Jay


Formerly in the business. Now just a piano fan.
Re: Yamaha vs Roland vs Casio? [Re: JayGVan] #2343149
10/29/14 11:45 PM
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The RD-800 is much better than expected, and you were clear with your explanation of each feature, so that helped me a lot. I like having the ability to change the sound so much.. Maybe I will go with Roland... then with other grands like Yamaha, Steinway, Kawai, etc.... I can just simply use VSTs. (That's just one route I may take, but there's a high chance it will happen. I am truly impressed.) Now there is one simple question that remains unanswered for me, or I may have missed it in the video... Can I change the SIZE of the grand piano? For example, when it's at full length, 9 ft, can I lower it down to a much smaller size? But still a grand? I believe in one of Roland's older products, that also had a "Piano Designer" feature, you could basically "shrink" the 9ft concert grand, down to a baby grand or even in between both sizes. Is there anyway for me to do something similar to this on the RD-800?

Re: Yamaha vs Roland vs Casio? [Re: AnimistFvR] #2343150
10/29/14 11:54 PM
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Originally Posted by AnimistFvR
I have my eyes on the RD-800... It would only be for home use, but as you said, it's quite a beast..

OTOH...
Originally Posted by AnimistFvR
Korg and Nord are out. They are not what I'm looking for in a piano that would fit my preference. I want a home, upright/console piano cabinet design. Which Yamaha, Roland, Casio and Kawai have.

;-)

If you're opening up the floor to non-console pianos, in roughly that price range, the RD800 is a great choice, and the Yamaha CP4, Kawai MP11/MP7, and Nord Piano 2 are additional options to consider (though the Nord action is generally considered to lag the others).

Re: Yamaha vs Roland vs Casio? [Re: anotherscott] #2343151
10/30/14 12:00 AM
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Yeah... I was being inconsiderate towards other brands haha... I was hoping no one would really notice my change of heart smile The only reason I was focusing on a cabinet design, is because I feel like it would be more immersive ! I feel as though on a slab keyboard, it might be hard to get immersed in the music smirk But I am willing to try ! (Quoting me lol... So embarrassing.)

I have actually done extensive research on the CP4. Hopefully my dealer will have it. My dealer is also a Kawai dealer, so hopefully they will have one of those two if not BOTH there as well... Okay so Nord Piano 2..... Action is realllllly important to me. If I ever have the opportunity, I will try the Nord Piano 2. Doesn't the Nord Piano 2 lack a factory set sample? So I will have to be connected to a computer constantly? Not too fun..

Re: Yamaha vs Roland vs Casio? [Re: AnimistFvR] #2343156
10/30/14 12:18 AM
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There's no official feature to change the size per se.

Lot of tweaks that can make a "bigger" and "smaller" sounding piano.

Some of the stock piano tones just have that individual character to them.

Worth trying out. Well worth it.

Jay


Formerly in the business. Now just a piano fan.
Re: Yamaha vs Roland vs Casio? [Re: JayGVan] #2343158
10/30/14 12:23 AM
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I'll see what I can do with the settings. Maybe one of your Upright models will get me the sound I want.. You mentioned an insane amount of piano samples... 40? What sort of variations do they have ?

Edit: whoops. I said my previous question would be the last question I bothered you with. Feel free to ignore this question. You've already used enough of your time helping me. I appreciate it.

Last edited by AnimistFvR; 10/30/14 12:29 AM.
Re: Yamaha vs Roland vs Casio? [Re: AnimistFvR] #2343160
10/30/14 12:34 AM
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Originally Posted by AnimistFvR
Doesn't the Nord Piano 2 lack a factory set sample? So I will have to be connected to a computer constantly? Not too fun..

The way it works is that you load up to 500 megabytes of their piano samples into the keyboard. You only need to connect to a computer when you want to change which 500 megabytes worth you want. Once you find the set you like, you'll probably just leave it that way, until/unless Nord comes out with a new sample you want to try out.

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