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So yesterday I tested how the N1 would behave with VST's using the internal speakers. I didn't have very much time but the results so far are horrible.

I tried with Alicia's Keys and Pianoteq. Both sounded terribly hollow and undefined, almost like the big smear you hear when the sustain pedal is never released. Getting a good velocity curve will probably be hard too as I couldn't get anything close to feeling right.

Another strange thing was that the sound was coming from all speakers, but when using a headphone connected to the N1 output I heard a signal on one ear only.

Will try with Ivory II this evening hopefully and get to sort out some of these issues. I doubt the internal speakers will give any kind of satisfactory result when used in this way though.

Interesting. Let us know how it goes with Ivory.

Good luck,

Steve

That's interesting indeed. The other person I know who has tried this did it using an N2 and didn't think the speakers sounded that bad.

The one downside of the AG speakers is that the line-in apparently has a noise gate, that silences it if the volume is below a certain level. So if you play a note and let it decay all the way, at the end it will flutter in and out.

Unfortunately since you have the best action and the best sounds available, you are probably not going to be satisfied using onboard speakers.

Gigantoad,

Can you please share the results of trying Ivory II with the N1 - both with the internal speakers, and with headphones? Besides the general benefit to the forum members and browsers of this information, I am considering purchasing the Ivory II and am very, very curious.

Thanks.

Regarding the velocity curve, the most important thing is to map ~108 on the AG to 127 on the VST. Just clip those top velocities on the AG off when using it as a MIDI controller.

Again, please stop saying wrong things.
There are no noise gate on AG...
I am daily using my AG mixing its internal sound with Pianoteq and using internal speaker
the results are, for me, perfect
I have spent weeks searching for the perfect mix, using Ivory2, Vintage D, Trukeys etc..
I got the best result with pianoteq
If you tune it correctly, it blends perfectly with AG internal sound
There are 2 important things to consider:
1. the velocity curve: 100 is about maximum value output (I guess AG makes a more better use of the internal velocity information, but gives limited output)
2. the audio card latency: It is extremely important to be as low as possible to get the right mix

I think mixing internal sound with VST is the best way as:
- I still keep the TRS feature which I love
- You still get the best dynamic possible from AG from internal sound (as its internal dynamic is wider than external output midi values sent)
- It greatly improves the internal sound

If you want more information, don't hesitate
But that way, I must say I got an extraordinary good results

@enzo, I know I've asked before, but just once more: how bad does pianoteq sound through the on-board speakers (without blending)?
Some have mentioned a hollow effect; however, I wonder if this could be remedied by adjusting pianoteq's equalizer, and other relevant parameters: reverb, dynamics, etc; or perhaps even pianoteq's volume.
I've been searching for a Grantouch, but they're hard to come by.
Your approach (blending) is certainly an option; being able to keep the TRS feature on is a major plus.

Hello Pete
My first experience indeed produced hollow sound
but you have to adjust:
- the micro position Or simply use 'Stereophonic'
- increase treeble via equalizer
- and increase a little hammer hardness

I must say also that I got best result with the Bluethner piano in pianoteq (which is an add on you have to pay)

But you can fine adjust the sound via the equalizer and the mic positions as well
The dynamic must be set properly as well to not cover too much the internal sound..just enough for adding the 'liveness' of pianoteq sound

Thanks, Enzo. I have the bluethner as well; it's great. Pianoteq (Pro) is perfect for blending, for one has fine control over tuning, volume, hammer hardness, and almost all available parameters on a note per note basis. It's time consuming; however, one can literally finely tune every single note to the blending source (Avantgrand).

Exactly
I came to the conclusion that even If Yamaha release new models of AG with improved sound, it cannot match the result you can get by mixing with Pianoteq
As you get an extremely good sound, and you can change it as soon as you get a little bored with, or if you want to make adaptations for special musical piece
I am extremely happy with that combination

Hello,
I also have Pianoteq but don't blend it with my Roland.
May I ask you how do you do to tune Pianoteq? Any precise tuner? just by hearing the same note layed on the 2 pianos?
Thanks,
SK

Yes, by hearing the same note layered on the two pianos (by ear). I start tweaking pianoteq until I match the on board piano's tuning. The "twangy" effect some complain about when blending pianos usually has to do with subtle variations in the tuning between the two pianos.

Holy smokes. You guys are tuning note-by-note with Pianoteq in order to blend? That is a daunting task. If you shared your Pianoteq fxp file, would that note-by-note tuning come with it, and if so have you (and, if not, could you) post the fxp on the Pianoteq site?

Regarding the noise gate -- it definitely exists on my N2, purchased in January 2010. But I do believe people who report that new models of the AG don't have the problem. Also, if you are blending with internal sound, probably the noise gate would become a non issue.

BTW - For those who don't have Pianoteq Pro, when Pianoteq 5 comes out, that may be your chance to jump up to Pro. I can't remember the details, but it was not much more money to upgrade to Pro when the Pianoteq 4 release came out. And it gives you note-by-note control (which I've never used, but now I'm tempted to).

I have some piano tuning software that probably would make this note-by-note tuning of Pianoteq to the AG possible. Very intriguing idea.

I've not gone as far as note by note tuning; however, as I indicated, it can be done. Realistically, it would be more practical to tweak the notes within the "playable" zone; in other words, ignore the extreme lower/upper end; since those notes are rarely played.

I ma not tuning note per note, and Pete said that you CAN do that, not that you have to do so.
For the noise gate, Yamaha obviously removed it, as I have no problem even when I switch off internal sound and only use the vst sound (I have to do so in order to fine tune pianoteq through internal N2 speakers )
And indeed i have pianoteq standard version, not the pro version.
But as I am not using fancy functions, you can achieve it also probably with the stage version.
I am now eager to try the new coming version 5.
Today I took my piano lessons on a accoustic piano, and I really found that the action of my N2 is by far superior, but now, even the sound is close to the real thing, while i can adjust the volume and it fits my small room...the best comprise for me.

I have to start by stating that I didn't have the time to read the whole thread through, but this thread nontheless seems to be a good place for my question... that I have been wondering about for some time:

How can the Avant Grands be used with external audio sources that are stereo (aren't they). The main idea behind the Avant Grand's sound sampling and reproduction is a 4-way system of first micropohones and then speakers.

So, you'll have to settle for stereo sounds with a software piano, don't you? Or am I missing something here?

Pianoteq supports up to 5 channels with freely positionable microphones.

That's true, but the question remains:

. . . If you have software which gives more than 2 output channels,
. . . how do you feed all the channels into the AG?

. Charles

That's a simple one to answer: you can't! I guess you could feed 2 channels into the N1 and have a 2.1 speakers setup positioned around it. Not sure how effective or realistic that would be though.

That's an interesting idea -- one loudspeaker for each microphone!

It would be a bear to balance, though. The AG speakers would probably have different frequency response (and phasing) than the outboard speakers.

I think the AG designers wanted to build a complete, integrated system - and they did that. They weren't tasked with making it expandable or modular or very adjustable -- and they didn't.

. charles