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Re: Kawai VPC1, Kontakt 5 and Galaxy Vintage D [Re: Emiliano] #2340909
10/24/14 10:08 AM
10/24/14 10:08 AM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 69
London, UK
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Emiliano Offline OP
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Emiliano  Offline OP
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 69
London, UK
bats, porpoises....wow sounds like David Attenborough :-) Just kidding !
Thanx Lolatu, Thanx Toddy....what you are saying makes sense to me, I guess I'll stick to the 48000 value.
I did try to hear the difference between 44, 48 etc. and...well...they all sound the same to me :-(
I sound dumb, and I probably am...

Last edited by Emiliano; 10/24/14 11:12 AM.
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Re: Kawai VPC1, Kontakt 5 and Galaxy Vintage D [Re: Emiliano] #2340931
10/24/14 10:51 AM
10/24/14 10:51 AM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,445
UK
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Alexander Borro Offline
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Alexander Borro  Offline
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I feel the same, don't think it is dumbness, just the limit of ones hearing.

When it comes to recording though I do notice a subtle difference between a high bitrate sample wav file output in my DAW and then a conversion to high quality 320 kB/s mp3, though it very very subtle effect at this stage, it may be even due to the encoder resampling rather than the actual bitrate loss why I am hearing that for all I know, but then going down to half that, say 128 kBs/sec and I begin to tell more and more. Still, the file goes from about 25 Mb to 3.5 Mb 320 Kb/s MP3, and the loss is far less in proportion.

Lets not forget that CD quality is only 16 bit 44 kHz, but CDs do have very high bitrate. To satisfy that in theory would require

44100 HZ * 16 bits / sample * 2 ( for each channel in stereo ) = 1411200 = 1411 kb/s

for uncompressed data.

Many audiophiles spend thousands on headphones, headphones amplifiers, CD players and what not to get the best they can get, not that I own such high end things, but they still listen to CDs most of the time smile


Last edited by Alexander Borro; 10/24/14 10:51 AM.

Selftaught since June 2014.
Books: Barratt classic piano course bk 1,2,3. Humphries Piano handbook, various...
Kawai CA78, Casio AP450 & software pianos.
[Linked Image] 12x ABF recitals.
My struggles: https://soundcloud.com/alexander-borro
Re: Kawai VPC1, Kontakt 5 and Galaxy Vintage D [Re: Alexander Borro] #2341016
10/24/14 01:39 PM
10/24/14 01:39 PM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 3,747
Portugal
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toddy Offline
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Originally Posted by Alexander Borro
I feel the same, don't think it is dumbness, just the limit of ones hearing.

When it comes to recording though I do notice a subtle difference between a high bitrate sample wav file output in my DAW and then a conversion to high quality 320 kB/s mp3, though it very very subtle effect at this stage, it may be even due to the encoder resampling rather than the actual bitrate loss why I am hearing that for all I know, but then going down to half that, say 128 kBs/sec and I begin to tell more and more. Still, the file goes from about 25 Mb to 3.5 Mb 320 Kb/s MP3, and the loss is far less in proportion.


Yes, even I (with my tinnitus and ex-band member hearing loss) can tell that MP3 at 128kb/s produces some seriously destructive artifacts. But MP3 is an active compression format which involves all kind of monkeying about with the signal. Also there are different conversion methods (floating bit rate VBR; ABR; CBR) which can affect the signal in different ways.
Originally Posted by Alexander Borro

Lets not forget that CD quality is only 16 bit 44 kHz, but CDs do have very high bitrate. To satisfy that in theory would require

44100 HZ * 16 bits / sample * 2 ( for each channel in stereo ) = 1411200 = 1411 kb/s for uncompressed data.

Many audiophiles spend thousands on headphones, headphones amplifiers, CD players and what not to get the best they can get, not that I own such high end things, but they still listen to CDs most of the time smile


But aren't these audiophile blokes mostly (but not always) deluded? There used to be record turntables costing 10000 (without tonearm or cartridge) back in about 1980 - that's about a half the cost of a decent house back then!These machines had special elastic bands on the counterweight and a super heavy stone base.

...not sure if those gentlemen would listen to CDs even now...for many years they wouldn't go near them with a barge pole.


Last edited by toddy; 10/24/14 01:43 PM.

Roland HP 302 / Samson Graphite 49 / Akai EWI

Reaper / Native Instruments K9 ult / ESQL MOR2 Symph Orchestra & Choirs / Lucato & Parravicini , trumpets & saxes / Garritan CFX lite / Production Voices C7 & Steinway D compact

Focusrite Saffire 24 / W7, i7 4770, 16GB / MXL V67g / Yamaha HS7s / HD598
Re: Kawai VPC1, Kontakt 5 and Galaxy Vintage D [Re: toddy] #2341025
10/24/14 01:50 PM
10/24/14 01:50 PM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,445
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Alexander Borro Offline
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Alexander Borro  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,445
UK
Originally Posted by toddy

But aren't these audiophile blokes mostly (but not always) deluded?


Yep I would say often they are along the lines you mention. Hope that will not cause a flame war, but this is not a Hi-Fi forum so I can probably escape unhurt laugh


Selftaught since June 2014.
Books: Barratt classic piano course bk 1,2,3. Humphries Piano handbook, various...
Kawai CA78, Casio AP450 & software pianos.
[Linked Image] 12x ABF recitals.
My struggles: https://soundcloud.com/alexander-borro
Re: Kawai VPC1, Kontakt 5 and Galaxy Vintage D [Re: Alexander Borro] #2341033
10/24/14 02:00 PM
10/24/14 02:00 PM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 3,091
uk south
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dire tonic Offline
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uk south
Originally Posted by Alexander Borro
Originally Posted by toddy

But aren't these audiophile blokes mostly (but not always) deluded?


Yep I would say often they are along the lines you mention. Hope that will not cause a flame war, but this is not a Hi-Fi forum so I can probably escape unhurt laugh


Does vinyl sound better?

Re: Kawai VPC1, Kontakt 5 and Galaxy Vintage D [Re: dire tonic] #2341040
10/24/14 02:19 PM
10/24/14 02:19 PM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,445
UK
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Alexander Borro Offline
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Alexander Borro  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,445
UK
Originally Posted by dire tonic
Originally Posted by Alexander Borro
Originally Posted by toddy

But aren't these audiophile blokes mostly (but not always) deluded?


Yep I would say often they are along the lines you mention. Hope that will not cause a flame war, but this is not a Hi-Fi forum so I can probably escape unhurt laugh


Does vinyl sound better?


I haven't listened to a vinyl since my Uni days, say around early nineties. I remember a lot of crackles and pops on my vinyls though laugh

I rarely even listed to CD these days for that matter. Seems most of my music I listed to is in some form of format stored on a computer. CD quality still sounds fine to me though when I do listen to CDs.

A lot of what I listen to can vary in recording quality, a great recording or music 128 kB/sec 44 KHz still sounds better to me compared to a recording/music I don't like at whatever infinite bitrate and sampling rate laugh


Selftaught since June 2014.
Books: Barratt classic piano course bk 1,2,3. Humphries Piano handbook, various...
Kawai CA78, Casio AP450 & software pianos.
[Linked Image] 12x ABF recitals.
My struggles: https://soundcloud.com/alexander-borro
Re: Kawai VPC1, Kontakt 5 and Galaxy Vintage D [Re: Emiliano] #2341057
10/24/14 02:50 PM
10/24/14 02:50 PM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 3,091
uk south
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dire tonic Offline
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Joined: Jul 2011
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uk south
- I was just being mischievous...I say "back to mono!!"...you're probably too young to know that audiophiles of the time complained bitterly about the introduction of stereo. Total madness.

I've still got a pile of CDs but I think they'll end up on a string on some farm scaring the birds off newly sown seed.

Re: Kawai VPC1, Kontakt 5 and Galaxy Vintage D [Re: dire tonic] #2341094
10/24/14 04:20 PM
10/24/14 04:20 PM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,445
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Alexander Borro Offline
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Alexander Borro  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,445
UK
Originally Posted by dire tonic
- I was just being mischievous...I say "back to mono!!"...you're probably too young to know that audiophiles of the time complained bitterly about the introduction of stereo. Total madness.

I've still got a pile of CDs but I think they'll end up on a string on some farm scaring the birds off newly sown seed.


Got the mischief smile CDs make great accessories, great to avoid those table rings so I put tea cups on them, they seem to be all over the place my house except being listening to. Yep, jut about too young to recall the mono to stereo transition in earnest, though I do recall having those old valve amps and mono valve radios in my parents house and the day of medium/long wave radio shows. They did sound lovely and warm though, I would give it that laugh


Selftaught since June 2014.
Books: Barratt classic piano course bk 1,2,3. Humphries Piano handbook, various...
Kawai CA78, Casio AP450 & software pianos.
[Linked Image] 12x ABF recitals.
My struggles: https://soundcloud.com/alexander-borro
Re: Kawai VPC1, Kontakt 5 and Galaxy Vintage D [Re: Emiliano] #2341124
10/24/14 06:04 PM
10/24/14 06:04 PM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 3,747
Portugal
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toddy Offline
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toddy  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2011
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Sigh! I don't know really. I'm very attached to my dear collection of LPs - and I used to love the old 78s my mum and dad and grandma had accumulated. They were such beauties - the labels especially - the black and white His Master's Voice dog inside the bright red label was wonderful.

But you can see from the way I'm talking about it that it's all sentiment for what were actually powerful fetiches. The representation became bigger than the contents, almost.

Then there was the sound: no electronic bits and pieces and processes to degrade the quality - just physical audio channels - diaphrams, tubes, horns. And what did it sound like? Dreadful, of course. A scratchy ghostly band-limited version of the real thing.

LPs with diamond stylus, magnetic transducer and hi-fi amp & speakers were a vast improvement, of course, and apart from the scratches, sounded far better than the iphone horror that kids seem happy to put up with these days.

Nowadays there is no representation - no material at all, and all we've got is the music, which as the audiophiles point out is in compromised quality if it's MP3.

It's funny - really excellent audio quality is easily set up now, and cheaper than it ever was. But most people simply can't be arsed. Maybe we need the rabid audiophiles to balance things out.

(quietly relieved this is not a Hi Fi forum. Do such things still exist? .....looks a little concerned....


Roland HP 302 / Samson Graphite 49 / Akai EWI

Reaper / Native Instruments K9 ult / ESQL MOR2 Symph Orchestra & Choirs / Lucato & Parravicini , trumpets & saxes / Garritan CFX lite / Production Voices C7 & Steinway D compact

Focusrite Saffire 24 / W7, i7 4770, 16GB / MXL V67g / Yamaha HS7s / HD598
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