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Hi everyone!

I am curious what is the difference between FORSTER and FORSTER AUGUST instruments.
I found in Pierce Piano Atlas 10th Edition that Forster uprights, and grands were made in Czechoslovakia, whereas Forster August is still produced in Germany. Dispite the serial numbers there is no more informations.

Does anyone has experience with those?
What differs them?

Is the factory in Czech Republic still active?

Thak you ^ ^

They are completely different pianos made by different companies. A legal dispute over who actually owned the name resulted in Petrof getting the legal right to sell pianos under the name in certain countries and descendants of the original German family retaining the right in others. I don't know if Petrof still retains any rights to the name.

Any Czech Forster sold in the US is grey market in the sense that Petrof never had the marketing rights to the US market so Czech Forsters for sale here had been sold as new elsewhere before arriving here. In Europe you can find either kind on the used market. The Czech ones have a lower market value. Country of origin is clearly marked on the plate.

The tone of each is distinctly different.

August Förster is a company that makes pianos of exceptional quality. Actually I would say they're not quite in league with Fazioli, Steinway, Bechstein or Blüthner, or Bösendorfer, but they are beautiful pianos.

Förster made in the Czech republic have always felt and sounded on the good side of mediocre to me, nothing exceptional about them, but they're OK.

I have no idea what the latest Petrof pianos are like - Petrof made Förster pianos in the Czech republic.

Really? Not in the same league?

I would say not, based solely on my experience of playing these pianos. From my point of view there seem to be pianos in the tier one group that are better than others. It's hard to say anything bad about August Förster pianos, but I just feel that there are others which are much better.

For what it means (sometimes not all that much), they're also not in the same price range as those others I mentioned. In the UK they seem to sell for the same as a Schimmel, or perhaps just a little more expensive, even though they're quite a bit better than Schimmel.

Do you play August Förster? What do you think?

No need to deflect the OP's question into a referendum on what pianos belong in what league.

I think I understand Joe's comment. For many ears (including mine), the pure tone profile of a German Förster isn't exactly a fit.

Larry Fine's comments in Piano Buyer about the Förster tone have always seemed very fair and accurate to me. It really comes down to taste.

Yeah that's kind of what I mean. A great piano that somehow doesn't, doesn't that word which doesn't exist so 'not quite a fit' is the best way of putting it!

I've only had a chance to play one August Förster, which isn't much, which is why I am interested in your opinion!

My feeling was that it was a top-notch piano, but a salon piano, not a concert-hall piano. For more intimate settings.

I felt I could be as expressive as I wanted with it, and it gave me enough control.

However, once again, I didn't get much time with it, so I am very interested to hear what other people like/dislike about it. So I appreciate your followup post.

Forum member Eric Johnson (Bose Eric) is a fan of August Förster's old school production methods. These pictures are from his visit to the factory in Lobau, Germany about five years ago.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/44882812@N03/sets/72157622730670255/detail/

Lobau is in a corner of Germany very close to Poland and the Czech Republic. The reason things got muddied up with ownership of the name probably has to do with Soviet occupation of the whole region after WW II.

Nice link!

Hi William,
Thank you for the photo link. I also enjoyed looking at them. I see that the production of August Förster instruments is more artisanal than most other piano makers today. I am old fashioned enough to believe that this respect for traditional piano building techniques contributes to a finer instrument than the high volume production assembly lines in China,Japan and other parts of Asia.

Greetings!
Robert.

Hello Robert

I'm certain Eric would agree with you. Here are his words from his report of the factory visit. He expresses it much better than I could.

"While there is much to be said for modern woodworking techniques and equipment, in piano building modern is not always needed, or useful. Forster is a small maker. I’m estimating around 250 grands for the world per year. There is only so much efficiency that will bring any benefit in that situation."

Here's a link to the full report.

http://www.highendpianoguy.com/factory-visit-august-forster/


You can get to the second part of the report (technical features) by clicking on Next at the page top.

Eric's web site, http://www.highendpianoguy.com/. is full of neat stuff. I think his perspective is almost unique. He's worked for Yamaha, Bösendorfer, and most recently with rebadged pianos from Hailun in Ningbo, so he's seen it all in terms of production methods.

For me the question is moot. Förster employs 40 people to produce no more than 300 pianos annually. At the opposite end of the spectrum, Pearl River employs 4000 people to produce 120,000 pianos. There's no way Förster could afford the technology that Pearl uses. There's no way that Pearl could afford do do things the Förster way.

Hi William,
Thank you for the link to the additional material on August Förster and I shall also visit his website.

I should add that I am also enough of a realist to understand that the high volume production of Yamaha, Kawai, Pearl River and others make decent, affordable pianos for nearly everyone. The enjoyment and personal enrichment from playing the piano should be available to all.

Warm regards,

Robert.

Yes. That's the other half of it, isn't it?

Realistically, one has to think that CNC precision woodworking tools can achieve consistency that rivals or exceeds hand working the identical material. The same for drilling a pinblock. But technology also opens the door to cutting corners that may detract from the finished product. Companies can become obsessed with cost cutting. Maybe wood stock that would be rejected in hand building slips through in machine work. The whole issue is complex and difficult.

I've read in a couple of places that Pearl has plunked a guild type operation right in the middle of its massive factory to manufacture its (relatively) high priced Kayserbergs. A small team of workers is said to accomplish everything. So even though it's the largest production piano factory in the world, Pearl apparently sees some benefit in hand building. Let's hope it's not just to fetch a higher price.

I wonder how long Förster can keep things going. I think Eric's production estimate from 2009 is a little high for today. To my way of thinking, Sauter has a good formula. They are innovative and not averse at all to technology, but they've retained the craftsmanship necessary to make their high prices viable in carefully chosen sales markets. Sauter's timing was good because they made their investment in technology many years ago. Things are tougher today for any small Euro maker wanting to modernize.

Thank you very much.
Yours posts were useful.
Here is an article I wrote about it:

http://www.klaviano.com/pianonews/forster.html

I would be grateful for suggestions if you found there any some mistakes.

Thank you in advance.

Thanks for the mention, Turandot

This is a quote from the August Forster website which should clarify matters:

"In 1900 Cäsar Förster founded a branch factory in Georgswalde in Bohemia.

The Austro-Hungarian Empire was an important market but because of the high import duties that were imposed in 1886, sales to that area became very difficult. The establishment of the branch factory only a few kilometers across the border from Löbau provided the opportunity to circumvent the high duties and thus gain access to a large market.

In 1945, the Czech government nationalized the branch factory in Bohemia. Up to the year 2000, pianos with the name AUGUST FÖRSTER are being produced in the Czech Petroff factory. These pianos cannot be compared to the design and quality of the original and traditional AUGUST FÖRSTER pianos made in Löbau."

Unfortunately, August Forster was not the only piano maker to befall this fate. One of the Communists' many failings was that they knew nothing about the making or selling of pianos (or anything else for that matter). The product quality and reputations of Bluthner, Estonia, Feurich, August Forster, Petrof and Seiler were damaged by Marxist mismanagement. Fortunately, these problems have been rectified since the fall of the Iron Curtain.

August hoffman is a totally different brand?
how they compare.

You mean "W. Hoffmann", don't you? That's Bechstein's medium-priced piano line. Hoffmann used to be an independent German piano company, but that was a long time ago.

Almiviva No,
I mean August Hoffman ....too many Hoffman piano makers out there
Do you know them.