2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
Who's Online Now
68 members (Chouca, Cutec, achoo42, AaronSF, chopinetto, 36251, accordeur, 18 invisible), 507 guests, and 430 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Forster vs August Forster
#2340461 10/23/14 02:43 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 13
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 13
Hi everyone!

I am curious what is the difference between FORSTER and FORSTER AUGUST instruments.
I found in Pierce Piano Atlas 10th Edition that Forster uprights, and grands were made in Czechoslovakia, whereas Forster August is still produced in Germany. Dispite the serial numbers there is no more informations.

Does anyone has experience with those?
What differs them?

Is the factory in Czech Republic still active?

Thak you ^ ^



Re: Forster vs August Forster
eazydyonizy #2340532 10/23/14 09:03 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,439
7000 Post Club Member
Offline
7000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,439
They are completely different pianos made by different companies. A legal dispute over who actually owned the name resulted in Petrof getting the legal right to sell pianos under the name in certain countries and descendants of the original German family retaining the right in others. I don't know if Petrof still retains any rights to the name.

Any Czech Forster sold in the US is grey market in the sense that Petrof never had the marketing rights to the US market so Czech Forsters for sale here had been sold as new elsewhere before arriving here. In Europe you can find either kind on the used market. The Czech ones have a lower market value. Country of origin is clearly marked on the plate.

The tone of each is distinctly different.


Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier
Re: Forster vs August Forster
eazydyonizy #2340577 10/23/14 11:00 AM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,698
J
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
J
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,698
August Förster is a company that makes pianos of exceptional quality. Actually I would say they're not quite in league with Fazioli, Steinway, Bechstein or Blüthner, or Bösendorfer, but they are beautiful pianos.

Förster made in the Czech republic have always felt and sounded on the good side of mediocre to me, nothing exceptional about them, but they're OK.

I have no idea what the latest Petrof pianos are like - Petrof made Förster pianos in the Czech republic.

Re: Forster vs August Forster
Joseph Fleetwood #2340581 10/23/14 11:14 AM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 3,542
P
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
P
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 3,542
Originally Posted by joe80
August Förster is a company that makes pianos of exceptional quality. Actually I would say they're not quite in league with Fazioli, Steinway, Bechstein or Blüthner, or Bösendorfer, but they are beautiful pianos.

Really? Not in the same league?


Poetry is rhythm
Re: Forster vs August Forster
eazydyonizy #2340584 10/23/14 11:28 AM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,698
J
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
J
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,698
I would say not, based solely on my experience of playing these pianos. From my point of view there seem to be pianos in the tier one group that are better than others. It's hard to say anything bad about August Förster pianos, but I just feel that there are others which are much better.

For what it means (sometimes not all that much), they're also not in the same price range as those others I mentioned. In the UK they seem to sell for the same as a Schimmel, or perhaps just a little more expensive, even though they're quite a bit better than Schimmel.

Do you play August Förster? What do you think?

Re: Forster vs August Forster
phantomFive #2340586 10/23/14 11:35 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,439
7000 Post Club Member
Offline
7000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,439
Originally Posted by phantomFive

Really? Not in the same league?


No need to deflect the OP's question into a referendum on what pianos belong in what league.

I think I understand Joe's comment. For many ears (including mine), the pure tone profile of a German Förster isn't exactly a fit.

Larry Fine's comments in Piano Buyer about the Förster tone have always seemed very fair and accurate to me. It really comes down to taste.


Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier
Re: Forster vs August Forster
eazydyonizy #2340595 10/23/14 12:17 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,698
J
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
J
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,698
Yeah that's kind of what I mean. A great piano that somehow doesn't, doesn't that word which doesn't exist so 'not quite a fit' is the best way of putting it!

Re: Forster vs August Forster
Joseph Fleetwood #2340614 10/23/14 12:58 PM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 3,542
P
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
P
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 3,542
Originally Posted by joe80
Do you play August Förster? What do you think?

I've only had a chance to play one August Förster, which isn't much, which is why I am interested in your opinion!

My feeling was that it was a top-notch piano, but a salon piano, not a concert-hall piano. For more intimate settings.

I felt I could be as expressive as I wanted with it, and it gave me enough control.

However, once again, I didn't get much time with it, so I am very interested to hear what other people like/dislike about it. So I appreciate your followup post.


Poetry is rhythm
Re: Forster vs August Forster
eazydyonizy #2340684 10/23/14 04:30 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,439
7000 Post Club Member
Offline
7000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,439
Forum member Eric Johnson (Bose Eric) is a fan of August Förster's old school production methods. These pictures are from his visit to the factory in Lobau, Germany about five years ago.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/44882812@N03/sets/72157622730670255/detail/

Lobau is in a corner of Germany very close to Poland and the Czech Republic. The reason things got muddied up with ownership of the name probably has to do with Soviet occupation of the whole region after WW II.



Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier
Re: Forster vs August Forster
eazydyonizy #2340792 10/23/14 11:34 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,916
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,916
Nice link!


Gary
Re: Forster vs August Forster
eazydyonizy #2340800 10/24/14 12:59 AM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,768
R
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
R
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,768
Hi William,
Thank you for the photo link. I also enjoyed looking at them. I see that the production of August Förster instruments is more artisanal than most other piano makers today. I am old fashioned enough to believe that this respect for traditional piano building techniques contributes to a finer instrument than the high volume production assembly lines in China,Japan and other parts of Asia.

Greetings!
Robert.

Re: Forster vs August Forster
Robert 45 #2340912 10/24/14 09:13 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,439
7000 Post Club Member
Offline
7000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,439
Originally Posted by Robert 45
Hi William,
Thank you for the photo link. I also enjoyed looking at them. I see that the production of August Förster instruments is more artisanal than most other piano makers today. I am old fashioned enough to believe that this respect for traditional piano building techniques contributes to a finer instrument than the high volume production assembly lines in China,Japan and other parts of Asia.

Greetings!
Robert.


Hello Robert

I'm certain Eric would agree with you. Here are his words from his report of the factory visit. He expresses it much better than I could.

"While there is much to be said for modern woodworking techniques and equipment, in piano building modern is not always needed, or useful. Forster is a small maker. I’m estimating around 250 grands for the world per year. There is only so much efficiency that will bring any benefit in that situation."

Here's a link to the full report.

http://www.highendpianoguy.com/factory-visit-august-forster/


You can get to the second part of the report (technical features) by clicking on Next at the page top.

Eric's web site, http://www.highendpianoguy.com/. is full of neat stuff. I think his perspective is almost unique. He's worked for Yamaha, Bösendorfer, and most recently with rebadged pianos from Hailun in Ningbo, so he's seen it all in terms of production methods.

For me the question is moot. Förster employs 40 people to produce no more than 300 pianos annually. At the opposite end of the spectrum, Pearl River employs 4000 people to produce 120,000 pianos. There's no way Förster could afford the technology that Pearl uses. There's no way that Pearl could afford do do things the Förster way.





Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier
Re: Forster vs August Forster
turandot #2340983 10/24/14 12:07 PM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,768
R
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
R
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,768
Hi William,
Thank you for the link to the additional material on August Förster and I shall also visit his website.

I should add that I am also enough of a realist to understand that the high volume production of Yamaha, Kawai, Pearl River and others make decent, affordable pianos for nearly everyone. The enjoyment and personal enrichment from playing the piano should be available to all.

Warm regards,

Robert.

Re: Forster vs August Forster
Robert 45 #2341034 10/24/14 01:03 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,439
7000 Post Club Member
Offline
7000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,439
Originally Posted by Robert 45
I am also enough of a realist to understand that the high volume production of Yamaha, Kawai, Pearl River and others make decent, affordable pianos for nearly everyone. The enjoyment and personal enrichment from playing the piano should be available to all.


Yes. That's the other half of it, isn't it?

Realistically, one has to think that CNC precision woodworking tools can achieve consistency that rivals or exceeds hand working the identical material. The same for drilling a pinblock. But technology also opens the door to cutting corners that may detract from the finished product. Companies can become obsessed with cost cutting. Maybe wood stock that would be rejected in hand building slips through in machine work. The whole issue is complex and difficult.

I've read in a couple of places that Pearl has plunked a guild type operation right in the middle of its massive factory to manufacture its (relatively) high priced Kayserbergs. A small team of workers is said to accomplish everything. So even though it's the largest production piano factory in the world, Pearl apparently sees some benefit in hand building. Let's hope it's not just to fetch a higher price.

I wonder how long Förster can keep things going. I think Eric's production estimate from 2009 is a little high for today. To my way of thinking, Sauter has a good formula. They are innovative and not averse at all to technology, but they've retained the craftsmanship necessary to make their high prices viable in carefully chosen sales markets. Sauter's timing was good because they made their investment in technology many years ago. Things are tougher today for any small Euro maker wanting to modernize.


Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier
Re: Forster vs August Forster
eazydyonizy #2342323 10/28/14 08:28 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 13
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 13
Thank you very much.
Yours posts were useful.
Here is an article I wrote about it:

http://www.klaviano.com/pianonews/forster.html

I would be grateful for suggestions if you found there any some mistakes.

Thank you in advance.

Re: Forster vs August Forster
eazydyonizy #2398308 03/15/15 07:01 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 733
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 733
Thanks for the mention, Turandot

Re: Forster vs August Forster
eazydyonizy #2398387 03/15/15 10:57 AM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,338
A
Bronze Subscriber
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
Bronze Subscriber
1000 Post Club Member
A
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,338
Originally Posted by eazydyonizy
Hi everyone!

I am curious what is the difference between FORSTER and FORSTER AUGUST instruments.
I found in Pierce Piano Atlas 10th Edition that Forster uprights, and grands were made in Czechoslovakia, whereas Forster August is still produced in Germany. Dispite the serial numbers there is no more informations.

Does anyone has experience with those?
What differs them?

Is the factory in Czech Republic still active?

Thak you ^ ^


This is a quote from the August Forster website which should clarify matters:

"In 1900 Cäsar Förster founded a branch factory in Georgswalde in Bohemia.

The Austro-Hungarian Empire was an important market but because of the high import duties that were imposed in 1886, sales to that area became very difficult. The establishment of the branch factory only a few kilometers across the border from Löbau provided the opportunity to circumvent the high duties and thus gain access to a large market.

In 1945, the Czech government nationalized the branch factory in Bohemia. Up to the year 2000, pianos with the name AUGUST FÖRSTER are being produced in the Czech Petroff factory. These pianos cannot be compared to the design and quality of the original and traditional AUGUST FÖRSTER pianos made in Löbau."

Unfortunately, August Forster was not the only piano maker to befall this fate. One of the Communists' many failings was that they knew nothing about the making or selling of pianos (or anything else for that matter). The product quality and reputations of Bluthner, Estonia, Feurich, August Forster, Petrof and Seiler were damaged by Marxist mismanagement. Fortunately, these problems have been rectified since the fall of the Iron Curtain.

Last edited by Almaviva; 03/15/15 03:37 PM.
Re: Forster vs August Forster
eazydyonizy #2398424 03/15/15 01:04 PM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 143
L
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
L
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 143
August hoffman is a totally different brand?
how they compare.

Re: Forster vs August Forster
LarryMan #2398461 03/15/15 02:10 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,338
A
Bronze Subscriber
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
Bronze Subscriber
1000 Post Club Member
A
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,338
You mean "W. Hoffmann", don't you? That's Bechstein's medium-priced piano line. Hoffmann used to be an independent German piano company, but that was a long time ago.

Re: Forster vs August Forster
eazydyonizy #2398470 03/15/15 02:23 PM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 143
L
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
L
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 143
Almiviva No,
I mean August Hoffman ....too many Hoffman piano makers out there smile
Do you know them.

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Ken Knapp, Piano World 

Link Copied to Clipboard
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
(ad) SWEETWATER Cyber Sale
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Yamaha C2x and C3x Cost???
by navi9187 - 12/02/20 04:10 PM
plz help ID this piece :)
by Chummy - 12/02/20 03:25 PM
CLP 735 vs CA49 vs HP704
by Einaudio - 12/02/20 02:49 PM
Is there a term for this?
by TBell - 12/02/20 02:04 PM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Forum Statistics
Forums41
Topics203,219
Posts3,029,758
Members99,451
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers


Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2020 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.4