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Re: Yamaha YDP-V240 vs Casio AP 650 [Re: BensDream] #2336886
10/13/14 09:25 AM
10/13/14 09:25 AM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,338
UK
A
Alexander Borro Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Alexander Borro  Offline
1000 Post Club Member
A

Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,338
UK
Some advice from a 4 months player, so with that in mind take it as you wish.

If you are mainly interested in just the piano sound I would not pick the AP-650 over the AP-450, apart for the 2x20W speakers versus the 2-30w,( I tried both when I bought) for home use both are plenty loud enough, the pianos sounds and actions are identical.

If you like the extra bells and whistles and extra non piano sounds and rhythms the AP-650 would of course be worth considering, but it is the those extra bells and whistles you are giving your cash towards when buying the 650 over the 450, for me I was only interested in the piano part anyway so it was an easy choice.

Coming back to being able to massage the sound further, you mention could you get the sounds with more reverb options in the Casio like the Yamaha.

You can,

I use the audio line out of the piano into my PC system with an audio interface and speakers or headphones, this then opens up a whole new world of options of being able to mix the sound using software. apply EQ settings, reverb, whatever, however that does mean you are either restricted to headphones or a speaker system connected to your PC. Of course hardware mixers are an option too.

It is worth noting that the AP-450 ( or the PX-850, the exact same pianos bar the cabinet ) has no audio line in feature. This is where the AP-650 or some of the other Casio models may be more desirable because you can feed the sound back into through the piano speakers, if you so wish, the AP-650 can do this, but the AP450/PX-850 cannot.

All that said, while the piano speaker are not that bad, I ( would say adequate is not a bad description ) a good external speaker system will be better anyway.

I use some old vintage speakers and a a Hifi amp and the sound is much fuller through those.

I use a software piano now as well, the Ivory Synthogy American D Steinway. The sound samples on the Casio are also that of a Steinway. With that the setup I use now when not using headphones is I layer a bit of the piano sound own speakers with its own sound and have the software piano sound coming out of my sound system with speakers setup to my left and right. This really gives me a wonderful feeling of being enveloped in sound. smile

When I bought months ago I did not even know about software pianos or that such a whole world existed. If you already have a half decent PC with say I3 processor or better you don't have to spend a lot of money extra on a very good software piano ( all typically in the sort of 100 - 200 pound range ) IMHO the software pianos compared to digital sound pianos in this price range I find that software pianos is much of an improvement in sound and flexibility/ configurability.

I don't regret buying the console I have, in fact it is nice being able to layer native piano sounds with that of the software piano with speakers, all that said it is a bit of a luxury.

If on a budget and I were to do it all again, I may well have bought a slab/stage piano like the Casio PX-350, or PX-150 because it still has the same action compared to my current Celviano AP-450, and this would have saved me over 300 pounds or more, enough to buy the software, and had I not owned speakers enough cash to buy some half decent studio monitors speakers too. I use headphones 90% of the time anyway either using the piano sounds or the soft piano ( as and when the mood takes me want to use the nicer sounds from the software piano, but when in serious practice mode I often still use the native piano sound too ).

So ... If you already have a decent sound system, a good PC handy as was the case with me, what I would do today doing it all again ?

If I had around 1000 pounds in my pocket I'd buy the kawai VPC1 midi controller, you'd buy yourself a top of the line piano action, with that use a software piano like the one I have, painoteq or one of the many software option out there.

The Kawai action on the VPC1 would be superior to any of the pianos you mention for that money you are thinking of spending. That is not to say I don't like the Casio action, I like it very much, and for sure I preferred it to all the yamaha actions in that price range when I tried, but that was just my personal preference.

Before making you final plunge, and depending what PC and sound system you already have the software route could end up costing a quite a bit extra or not much extra at all.

I would research the world of piano software and see the other options out there.

I would also recommend this channel and with some useful videos. Pianomanchuck covers a lot of useful stuff on software pianos, the Casio models of which he is a big fan, and Kawai pianos too.

http://www.youtube.com/user/PianoManChuck

All the best. Hope I didn't confuse it further smile


Last edited by Alexander Borro; 10/13/14 09:29 AM.

Selftaught since June 2014.
Books: Barratt classic piano course bk 1,2,3. Humphries Piano handbook, various...
Kawai CA78, Casio AP450 & software pianos.
[Linked Image] 12x ABF recitals.
My struggles: https://soundcloud.com/alexander-borro
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Re: Yamaha YDP-V240 vs Casio AP 650 [Re: Alexander Borro] #2336890
10/13/14 09:30 AM
10/13/14 09:30 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 18
B
BensDream Offline OP
Junior Member
BensDream  Offline OP
Junior Member
B

Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 18
Originally Posted by Alexander Borro
Some advice from a 4 months player, so with that in mind take it as you wish.

If you are mainly interested in just the piano sound I would not pick the AP-650 over the AP-450, apart for the 2x20W speakers versus the 2-30w,( I tried both when I bought) for home use both are plenty loud enough, the pianos sounds and actions are identical.

If you like the extra bells and whistles and extra non piano sounds and rhythms the AP-650 would of course be worth considering, but it is the those extra bells and whistles you are giving your cash towards when buying the 650 over the 450, for me I was only interested in the piano part anyway so it was an easy choice.

Coming back to being able to massage the sound further, you mention could you get the sounds with more reverb options in the Casio like the Yamaha.

You can,

I use the audio line out of the piano into my PC system with an audio interface and speakers or headphones, this then opens up a whole new world of options of being able to mix the sound using software. apply EQ settings, reverb, whatever, however that does mean you are either restricted to headphones or a speaker system connected to your PC. Of course hardware mixers are an option too.

It is worth noting that the AP-450 ( or the PX-850, the exact same pianos bar the cabinet ) has no audio line in feature. This is where the AP-650 or some of the other Casio models may be more desirable because you can feed the sound back into through the piano speakers, if you so wish, the AP-650 can do this, but the AP450/PX-850 cannot.

All that said, while the piano speaker are not that bad, I ( would say adequate is not a bad description ) a good external speaker system will be better anyway.

I use some old vintage speakers and a a Hifi amp and the sound is much fuller through those.

I use a software piano now as well, the Ivory Synthogy American D Steinway. The sound samples on the Casio are also that of a Steinway. With that the setup I use now when not using headphones is I layer a bit of the piano sound own speakers with its own sound and have the software piano sound coming out of my sound system with speakers setup to my left and right. This really gives me a wonderful feeling of being enveloped in sound. smile

When I bought months ago I did not even know about software pianos or that such a whole world existed. If you already have a half decent PC with say I3 processor or better you don't have to spend a lot of money extra on a very good software piano ( all typically in the sort of 100 - 200 pound range ) IMHO the software pianos compared to digital sound pianos in this price range I find that software pianos is much of an improvement and sound and flexibility/ configurability.

I don't regret buying the console I have, in fact it is nice being able to layer native piano sounds with that of the software piano with speakers, all that said it is a bit of a luxury.

If on a budget and I were to do it all again, I may well have bought a slab/stage piano like the Casio PX-350, or PX-150 because it still has the same action compared to my current Celviano AP-450, and this would have saved me over 300 pounds or more, enough to buy the software, and had I not owned speakers enough cash to buy some half decent studio monitors speakers too. I use headphones 90% of the time anyway either using the piano sounds or the soft piano ( as and when the mood takes me want to use the nicer sounds from the software piano, but when in serious practice mode I often still use the native piano sound too ).

So ... If you already have a decent sound system, a good PC handy as was the case with me, what I would do today doing it all again ?

If I had around 1000 pounds in my pocket I'd buy the kawai VPC1 midi controller, you'd buy yourself a top of the line piano action, with that use a software piano like the one I have, painoteq or one of the many software option out there.

The Kawai action on the VPC1 would be superior to any of the pianos you mention for that money you are thinking of spending. That is not to say I don't like the Casio action, I like it very much, and for sure I preferred it to all the yamaha actions in that price range when I tried, but that was just my personal preference.

Before making you final plunge, and depending what PC and sound system you already have the software route could end up costing a quite a bit extra or not much extra at all.

I would research the world of piano software and see the other options out there.

I would also recommend this channel and with some useful videos. Pianomanchuck covers a lot of useful stuff on software pianos, the Casio models of which he is a big fan, and Kawai pianos too.

http://www.youtube.com/user/PianoManChuck

All the best. Hope I didn't confuse it further smile



Thank you for the information, very helpful!

I'm not sure you understood my question about the reverb options in the Casio, though - I was wondering if it would be possible to make the Yamaha sound like the Casio's open lid setting by using the reverb and DSP options on the Yamaha, as opposed to changing the sound on the Casio to make it sound like the Yamaha.

Thanks!

Re: Yamaha YDP-V240 vs Casio AP 650 [Re: BensDream] #2336891
10/13/14 09:38 AM
10/13/14 09:38 AM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,338
UK
A
Alexander Borro Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Alexander Borro  Offline
1000 Post Club Member
A

Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,338
UK
Originally Posted by BensDream
Originally Posted by Alexander Borro
Some advice from a 4 months player, so with that in mind take it as you wish.

If you are mainly interested in just the piano sound I would not pick the AP-650 over the AP-450, apart for the 2x20W speakers versus the 2-30w,( I tried both when I bought) for home use both are plenty loud enough, the pianos sounds and actions are identical.

If you like the extra bells and whistles and extra non piano sounds and rhythms the AP-650 would of course be worth considering, but it is the those extra bells and whistles you are giving your cash towards when buying the 650 over the 450, for me I was only interested in the piano part anyway so it was an easy choice.

Coming back to being able to massage the sound further, you mention could you get the sounds with more reverb options in the Casio like the Yamaha.

You can,

I use the audio line out of the piano into my PC system with an audio interface and speakers or headphones, this then opens up a whole new world of options of being able to mix the sound using software. apply EQ settings, reverb, whatever, however that does mean you are either restricted to headphones or a speaker system connected to your PC. Of course hardware mixers are an option too.

It is worth noting that the AP-450 ( or the PX-850, the exact same pianos bar the cabinet ) has no audio line in feature. This is where the AP-650 or some of the other Casio models may be more desirable because you can feed the sound back into through the piano speakers, if you so wish, the AP-650 can do this, but the AP450/PX-850 cannot.

All that said, while the piano speaker are not that bad, I ( would say adequate is not a bad description ) a good external speaker system will be better anyway.

I use some old vintage speakers and a a Hifi amp and the sound is much fuller through those.

I use a software piano now as well, the Ivory Synthogy American D Steinway. The sound samples on the Casio are also that of a Steinway. With that the setup I use now when not using headphones is I layer a bit of the piano sound own speakers with its own sound and have the software piano sound coming out of my sound system with speakers setup to my left and right. This really gives me a wonderful feeling of being enveloped in sound. smile

When I bought months ago I did not even know about software pianos or that such a whole world existed. If you already have a half decent PC with say I3 processor or better you don't have to spend a lot of money extra on a very good software piano ( all typically in the sort of 100 - 200 pound range ) IMHO the software pianos compared to digital sound pianos in this price range I find that software pianos is much of an improvement and sound and flexibility/ configurability.

I don't regret buying the console I have, in fact it is nice being able to layer native piano sounds with that of the software piano with speakers, all that said it is a bit of a luxury.

If on a budget and I were to do it all again, I may well have bought a slab/stage piano like the Casio PX-350, or PX-150 because it still has the same action compared to my current Celviano AP-450, and this would have saved me over 300 pounds or more, enough to buy the software, and had I not owned speakers enough cash to buy some half decent studio monitors speakers too. I use headphones 90% of the time anyway either using the piano sounds or the soft piano ( as and when the mood takes me want to use the nicer sounds from the software piano, but when in serious practice mode I often still use the native piano sound too ).

So ... If you already have a decent sound system, a good PC handy as was the case with me, what I would do today doing it all again ?

If I had around 1000 pounds in my pocket I'd buy the kawai VPC1 midi controller, you'd buy yourself a top of the line piano action, with that use a software piano like the one I have, painoteq or one of the many software option out there.

The Kawai action on the VPC1 would be superior to any of the pianos you mention for that money you are thinking of spending. That is not to say I don't like the Casio action, I like it very much, and for sure I preferred it to all the yamaha actions in that price range when I tried, but that was just my personal preference.

Before making you final plunge, and depending what PC and sound system you already have the software route could end up costing a quite a bit extra or not much extra at all.

I would research the world of piano software and see the other options out there.

I would also recommend this channel and with some useful videos. Pianomanchuck covers a lot of useful stuff on software pianos, the Casio models of which he is a big fan, and Kawai pianos too.

http://www.youtube.com/user/PianoManChuck

All the best. Hope I didn't confuse it further smile



Thank you for the information, very helpful!

I'm not sure you understood my question about the reverb options in the Casio, though - I was wondering if it would be possible to make the Yamaha sound like the Casio's open lid setting by using the reverb and DSP options on the Yamaha, as opposed to changing the sound on the Casio to make it sound like the Yamaha.

Thanks!


Yes, re-reading your post I misread that, oops .. my bad, working and posting at the same time is a bad idea smile


Selftaught since June 2014.
Books: Barratt classic piano course bk 1,2,3. Humphries Piano handbook, various...
Kawai CA78, Casio AP450 & software pianos.
[Linked Image] 12x ABF recitals.
My struggles: https://soundcloud.com/alexander-borro
Re: Yamaha YDP-V240 vs Casio AP 650 [Re: Alexander Borro] #2336893
10/13/14 09:41 AM
10/13/14 09:41 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 18
B
BensDream Offline OP
Junior Member
BensDream  Offline OP
Junior Member
B

Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 18
Originally Posted by Alexander Borro
Originally Posted by BensDream
Originally Posted by Alexander Borro
Some advice from a 4 months player, so with that in mind take it as you wish.

If you are mainly interested in just the piano sound I would not pick the AP-650 over the AP-450, apart for the 2x20W speakers versus the 2-30w,( I tried both when I bought) for home use both are plenty loud enough, the pianos sounds and actions are identical.

If you like the extra bells and whistles and extra non piano sounds and rhythms the AP-650 would of course be worth considering, but it is the those extra bells and whistles you are giving your cash towards when buying the 650 over the 450, for me I was only interested in the piano part anyway so it was an easy choice.

Coming back to being able to massage the sound further, you mention could you get the sounds with more reverb options in the Casio like the Yamaha.

You can,

I use the audio line out of the piano into my PC system with an audio interface and speakers or headphones, this then opens up a whole new world of options of being able to mix the sound using software. apply EQ settings, reverb, whatever, however that does mean you are either restricted to headphones or a speaker system connected to your PC. Of course hardware mixers are an option too.

It is worth noting that the AP-450 ( or the PX-850, the exact same pianos bar the cabinet ) has no audio line in feature. This is where the AP-650 or some of the other Casio models may be more desirable because you can feed the sound back into through the piano speakers, if you so wish, the AP-650 can do this, but the AP450/PX-850 cannot.

All that said, while the piano speaker are not that bad, I ( would say adequate is not a bad description ) a good external speaker system will be better anyway.

I use some old vintage speakers and a a Hifi amp and the sound is much fuller through those.

I use a software piano now as well, the Ivory Synthogy American D Steinway. The sound samples on the Casio are also that of a Steinway. With that the setup I use now when not using headphones is I layer a bit of the piano sound own speakers with its own sound and have the software piano sound coming out of my sound system with speakers setup to my left and right. This really gives me a wonderful feeling of being enveloped in sound. smile

When I bought months ago I did not even know about software pianos or that such a whole world existed. If you already have a half decent PC with say I3 processor or better you don't have to spend a lot of money extra on a very good software piano ( all typically in the sort of 100 - 200 pound range ) IMHO the software pianos compared to digital sound pianos in this price range I find that software pianos is much of an improvement and sound and flexibility/ configurability.

I don't regret buying the console I have, in fact it is nice being able to layer native piano sounds with that of the software piano with speakers, all that said it is a bit of a luxury.

If on a budget and I were to do it all again, I may well have bought a slab/stage piano like the Casio PX-350, or PX-150 because it still has the same action compared to my current Celviano AP-450, and this would have saved me over 300 pounds or more, enough to buy the software, and had I not owned speakers enough cash to buy some half decent studio monitors speakers too. I use headphones 90% of the time anyway either using the piano sounds or the soft piano ( as and when the mood takes me want to use the nicer sounds from the software piano, but when in serious practice mode I often still use the native piano sound too ).

So ... If you already have a decent sound system, a good PC handy as was the case with me, what I would do today doing it all again ?

If I had around 1000 pounds in my pocket I'd buy the kawai VPC1 midi controller, you'd buy yourself a top of the line piano action, with that use a software piano like the one I have, painoteq or one of the many software option out there.

The Kawai action on the VPC1 would be superior to any of the pianos you mention for that money you are thinking of spending. That is not to say I don't like the Casio action, I like it very much, and for sure I preferred it to all the yamaha actions in that price range when I tried, but that was just my personal preference.

Before making you final plunge, and depending what PC and sound system you already have the software route could end up costing a quite a bit extra or not much extra at all.

I would research the world of piano software and see the other options out there.

I would also recommend this channel and with some useful videos. Pianomanchuck covers a lot of useful stuff on software pianos, the Casio models of which he is a big fan, and Kawai pianos too.

http://www.youtube.com/user/PianoManChuck

All the best. Hope I didn't confuse it further smile



Thank you for the information, very helpful!

I'm not sure you understood my question about the reverb options in the Casio, though - I was wondering if it would be possible to make the Yamaha sound like the Casio's open lid setting by using the reverb and DSP options on the Yamaha, as opposed to changing the sound on the Casio to make it sound like the Yamaha.

Thanks!


Yes, re-reading your post I misread that, oops .. my bad, working and posting at the same time is a bad idea smile


Haha, no problem - do you happen to know if it's a possibility in the Yamaha? Looking at the user manual it seems there's no lid simulation.

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Re: Yamaha YDP-V240 vs Casio AP 650 [Re: BensDream] #2336894
10/13/14 09:42 AM
10/13/14 09:42 AM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 3,678
Portugal
T
toddy Offline
3000 Post Club Member
toddy  Offline
3000 Post Club Member
T

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 3,678
Portugal
I was wondering if it would be possible to make the Yamaha sound like the Casio's open lid setting by using the reverb and DSP options on the Yamaha, as opposed to changing the sound on the Casio to make it sound like the Yamaha.

It's unlikely that you could get a Yamaha to sound like a Casio, or vice versa. The subtle differences will be deep in the fingerprint of the sample set. Of course you can use eq and reverb compression and countless other processors to make modifications, but the tonal quality will remain embedded in the sound. I think someone already made a similar point a few posts above.

If you like the sound of Casio, go for Casio - they certainly have the best keyboard action in the price band we're talking about, I think.

Last edited by toddy; 10/13/14 09:46 AM.

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Re: Yamaha YDP-V240 vs Casio AP 650 [Re: toddy] #2336897
10/13/14 09:45 AM
10/13/14 09:45 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 18
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BensDream Offline OP
Junior Member
BensDream  Offline OP
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 18
Originally Posted by toddy
I was wondering if it would be possible to make the Yamaha sound like the Casio's open lid setting by using the reverb and DSP options on the Yamaha, as opposed to changing the sound on the Casio to make it sound like the Yamaha.

It's unlikely that you could get a Yamaha to sound like a Casio, or vice versa. The subtle differences will be deep in the footprint of the sample set. Of course you can use eq and reverb compression and countless other processors to make modifications, but the tonal quality will remain embedded in the sound. I think someone already made a similar point a few posts above.

If you like the sound of Casio, go for Casio - they certainly have the best keyboard action in the price band we're talking about, I think.


I agree, and I am swayed more towards the Casio, though the Yamaha has so many reverb levels and DSP levels, and I was thinking maybe they could be a huge help. Do you think that having so many reverb and DSP levels will actually make a difference, or would you be able to replicate that number of effects by changing some settings on the Casio?

Thanks.

Re: Yamaha YDP-V240 vs Casio AP 650 [Re: BensDream] #2336901
10/13/14 09:48 AM
10/13/14 09:48 AM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 7,309
Northern England.
peterws Offline
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peterws  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 7,309
Northern England.
You asked for a straight choice with, presumably, reasons. I would go for the Casio AP 650 at the moment. Reasons.

1 whist both have multiple instruments for multi track recording the AP 650 has 16 tracks against the Yamaha's 6. But the Y's is much much easier to record on.

2 The Casio looks better and has better keyboard action in most peoples opinion. It has other variable piano based features which may help to augment the sound whereas the Yamaha has lots of reverb, chorus etc which will help somewhat.

3 as has been pointed out, the Y is a cabinet version of the DGX640 at over twice the price. I played one and liked it greatly. But I did own the dgx 630 at the time. . .

4 Quite simply it will not hold its price. You may find the Casio doesn't either. . .but I believe the C is cheaper.

Last edited by peterws; 10/13/14 09:51 AM.

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Re: Yamaha YDP-V240 vs Casio AP 650 [Re: peterws] #2336902
10/13/14 09:52 AM
10/13/14 09:52 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 18
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BensDream Offline OP
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BensDream  Offline OP
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 18
Originally Posted by peterws
You asked for a straight choice with, presumably, reasons. I would go for the Casio AP 650 at the moment. Reasons.

1 whist both have multiple instruments for multi track recording the AP 650 has 16 tracks against the Yamaha's 6. But the Y's is much much easier to record on.

2 The Casio looks better and has better keyboard action in most peoples opinion. It has other variable piano based features which may help to augment the sound whereas the Yamaha has lots of reverb, chorus etc which will help somewhat.

3 as has been pointed out, the Y is a cabinet version of the DGX640 at over twice the price. I played one and liked it greatly. But I did own the dgx 630 at the time. . .

4 Quite simply it will not hold its price. You may find the Casio doesn't either. . .


My reason for wanting to make a straight choice is that I've already done my research and don't want to be snowed under with choices again - I, too, am swaying towards the AP 650.

Regarding your first point, accessibility isn't really a problem, and I'd definitely choose the Casio over the Yamaha despite the Casio being harder to record on.

2. I've heard that the keyboard action is much better, though I'm not sure how much the reverb and DSP will help on the Yamaha, would you be able to clarify how it changes the sound and whether it's possible to set up a similar configuration with a Casio despite having fewer reverb and DSP settings?

3/4. I agree, the Yamaha doesn't seem to be much of a premium model despite being 300 more than the Casio. The Casio I'm looking at seems to be a top-of-the-line Casio as opposed to an entry level Yamaha. You did mention here, though, that you liked the Yamaha greatly - Would you say you liked it more than the AP 650 or just that you liked it in general?

Many thanks.

Re: Yamaha YDP-V240 vs Casio AP 650 [Re: BensDream] #2336904
10/13/14 09:54 AM
10/13/14 09:54 AM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 3,678
Portugal
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toddy Offline
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toddy  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2011
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Portugal
It's difficult to answer that question without hands on experience. Can you try them out in a shop? That would be the best way to get a feeling for the two instruments. How much is it important for you to be able to change the sounds?

The general principal is to get a sound and, more important still, feel that you like and go with that. I think both the Casio and Yamaha DPs you're looking at have a fair amount of variables. For me, when I want to have more control over the sound, I go to the computer where there is infinite flexibility. The DP is good for a set of sounds, very good piano(s) and rudimentary reverb.

If you want more onboard control, you can of course get it on a DP, but it's then fixed and turns out more expensive than running it from a computer (or device) these days.


Last edited by toddy; 10/13/14 09:55 AM.

Roland HP 302 / Samson Graphite 49 / Akai EWI

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Re: Yamaha YDP-V240 vs Casio AP 650 [Re: toddy] #2336906
10/13/14 09:58 AM
10/13/14 09:58 AM
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BensDream Offline OP
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Originally Posted by toddy
It's difficult to answer that question without hands on experience. Can you try them out in a shop? That would be the best way to get a feeling for the two instruments. How much is it important for you to be able to change the sounds?

The general principal is to get a sound and, more important still, feel that you like and go with that. I think both the Casio and Yamaha DPs you're looking at have a fair amount of variables. For me, when I want to have more control over the sound, I go to the computer where there is infinite flexibility. The DP is good for a set of sounds, very good piano(s) and rudimentary reverb.

If you want more onboard control, you can of course get it on a DP, but it's then fixed and turns out more expensive than running it from a computer (or device) these days.



I won't be able to test them in-store, though I'm practically set on the Casio now due to the better on-board sound and key action.

It's fairly important for me to be able to change the sounds in order to fit a number of different styles and environments.

Possibly slightly off-topic, though would you be able to recommend any computer software I could use to change the way the Casio sounds? I'm running an i7 4770k with 16gb RAM and a 780Ti, so I hopefully shouldn't run into any quality/processing issues.

Edit: I just remembered that the Casio may not have on-screen notation, in which case my mind isn't set as much as I thought it was!

Edit 2: It seems the Casio doesn't have on-screen notation - Which leads me onto the question of "Would it be possible to link it up to my computer and use an application to show me on my computer monitor which notes are being played, as well as have a similar set-up to the Yamaha where it has a "play-along" feature? i.e. The lesson won't progress until you've hit the notes. If so, which program could I use for that?"

Last edited by BensDream; 10/13/14 10:08 AM.
Re: Yamaha YDP-V240 vs Casio AP 650 [Re: BensDream] #2336909
10/13/14 10:05 AM
10/13/14 10:05 AM
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peterws Offline
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Originally Posted by BensDream
Originally Posted by peterws
You asked for a straight choice with, presumably, reasons. I would go for the Casio AP 650 at the moment. Reasons.

1 whist both have multiple instruments for multi track recording the AP 650 has 16 tracks against the Yamaha's 6. But the Y's is much much easier to record on.

2 The Casio looks better and has better keyboard action in most peoples opinion. It has other variable piano based features which may help to augment the sound whereas the Yamaha has lots of reverb, chorus etc which will help somewhat.

3 as has been pointed out, the Y is a cabinet version of the DGX640 at over twice the price. I played one and liked it greatly. But I did own the dgx 630 at the time. . .

4 Quite simply it will not hold its price. You may find the Casio doesn't either. . .


My reason for wanting to make a straight choice is that I've already done my research and don't want to be snowed under with choices again - I, too, am swaying towards the AP 650.

Regarding your first point, accessibility isn't really a problem, and I'd definitely choose the Casio over the Yamaha despite the Casio being harder to record on.

2. I've heard that the keyboard action is much better, though I'm not sure how much the reverb and DSP will help on the Yamaha, would you be able to clarify how it changes the sound and whether it's possible to set up a similar configuration with a Casio despite having fewer reverb and DSP settings?

3/4. I agree, the Yamaha doesn't seem to be much of a premium model despite being 300 more than the Casio. The Casio I'm looking at seems to be a top-of-the-line Casio as opposed to an entry level Yamaha. You did mention here, though, that you liked the Yamaha greatly - Would you say you liked it more than the AP 650 or just that you liked it in general?

Many thanks.


You're welcome. Its difficult to make objective decisions when you need loads of time to do it. I played the Casio range. Keyboard was OK. Yamaha GHS as used on the Yamaha you mention is Ok and light which I personally like.
The sound of the Casio was rich in the middle frequencies like many acoustic uprights. I never got to try out all the reverbs on the Casio. My wife preferred it to a Kasai ES7 next door. . .

Main thing preventing me buying the Yamaha would
be the price. You must put in the time looking into these. Good look! I mean Luck. . .

Last edited by peterws; 10/13/14 10:08 AM.

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Re: Yamaha YDP-V240 vs Casio AP 650 [Re: BensDream] #2336910
10/13/14 10:12 AM
10/13/14 10:12 AM
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toddy Offline
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Good advice from Peter, there - IF you want to have a system independent of the computer - the 16 recorder, for example, is useful, and the controllable features on the AP 650.

However, once you start moving over to computer processing, those features can become redundant. And your computer sounds ideal (envious smile ).

You can look at effects from native instruments and these really nice separate effects from Plug & Mix http://www.plugandmix.com/

But you would need to host these inside a digital studio (called a DAW - digital audio workstation). By which point, you would pretty well have moved over to computer for recording and processing - and probably sound sources too, in the longer run.

Last edited by toddy; 10/13/14 10:14 AM.

Roland HP 302 / Samson Graphite 49 / Akai EWI

Reaper / Native Instruments K9 ult / ESQL MOR2 Symph Orchestra & Choirs / Lucato & Parravicini , trumpets & saxes / Garritan CFX lite / Production Voices C7 & Steinway D compact

Focusrite Saffire 24 / W7, i7 4770, 16GB / MXL V67g / Yamaha HS7s / HD598
Re: Yamaha YDP-V240 vs Casio AP 650 [Re: peterws] #2336911
10/13/14 10:14 AM
10/13/14 10:14 AM
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BensDream Offline OP
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Originally Posted by peterws
Originally Posted by BensDream
Originally Posted by peterws
You asked for a straight choice with, presumably, reasons. I would go for the Casio AP 650 at the moment. Reasons.

1 whist both have multiple instruments for multi track recording the AP 650 has 16 tracks against the Yamaha's 6. But the Y's is much much easier to record on.

2 The Casio looks better and has better keyboard action in most peoples opinion. It has other variable piano based features which may help to augment the sound whereas the Yamaha has lots of reverb, chorus etc which will help somewhat.

3 as has been pointed out, the Y is a cabinet version of the DGX640 at over twice the price. I played one and liked it greatly. But I did own the dgx 630 at the time. . .

4 Quite simply it will not hold its price. You may find the Casio doesn't either. . .


My reason for wanting to make a straight choice is that I've already done my research and don't want to be snowed under with choices again - I, too, am swaying towards the AP 650.

Regarding your first point, accessibility isn't really a problem, and I'd definitely choose the Casio over the Yamaha despite the Casio being harder to record on.

2. I've heard that the keyboard action is much better, though I'm not sure how much the reverb and DSP will help on the Yamaha, would you be able to clarify how it changes the sound and whether it's possible to set up a similar configuration with a Casio despite having fewer reverb and DSP settings?

3/4. I agree, the Yamaha doesn't seem to be much of a premium model despite being 300 more than the Casio. The Casio I'm looking at seems to be a top-of-the-line Casio as opposed to an entry level Yamaha. You did mention here, though, that you liked the Yamaha greatly - Would you say you liked it more than the AP 650 or just that you liked it in general?

Many thanks.


You're welcome. Its difficult to make objective decisions when you need loads of time to do it. I played the Casio range. Keyboard was OK. Yamaha GHS as used on the Yamaha you mention is Ok and light which I personally like.
The sound of the Casio was rich in the middle frequencies like many acoustic uprights. I never got to try out all the reverbs on the Casio. My wife preferred it to a Kasai ES7 next door. . .

Main thing preventing me buying the Yamaha would
be the price. You must put in the time looking into these. Good look! I mean Luck. . .


I've never been a fan of light keys if I'm completely honest, and I've heard Casio's are much more in line with real grand pianos.

If money weren't an issue (But you're only allowed one of these two, no going for the 6,300 Clavinova!), would you buy the Casio or the Yamaha?

Thanks.

Originally Posted by toddy
Good advice from Peter, there - IF you want to have a system independent of the computer - the 16 recorder, for example, is useful, and the controllable features on the AP 650.

However, once you start moving over to computer processing, those features can become redundant. And your computer sounds ideal (envious smile ).

You can look at effects from native instruments and these really nice separate effects from Plug & Mix http://www.plugandmix.com/

But you would need to host these inside a digital studio (called a DAW - digital audio workstation). By which point, you would pretty well have moved over to computer for recording and processing - and probably sound sources too, in the longer run.


Eventually I will move over to the computer, though I think I'll only use it for on-screen notation and "play-along" lessons - Would those two things be possible with the Casio?

Thanks.

Last edited by BensDream; 10/13/14 10:16 AM.
Re: Yamaha YDP-V240 vs Casio AP 650 [Re: BensDream] #2336913
10/13/14 10:19 AM
10/13/14 10:19 AM
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Alexander Borro Offline
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Hi Ben,

Something I forgot to mention Casio are soon to release their new models, though I do not know when in Europe. In fact on the Casio website you can already see the upgraded PX ranges like the PX-860, they've gone from AP-x50 or PX-x50 to 60 at end.

Seeing you asked about reverb options as well. This exactly what has been added, like Hall, Church and so for a much more reverb heavy sound. I recall a couple of sound demos or two already floating around on youtube.

The manuals for the updated model are already downloadable from the Casio website. You could take a peek to see what's changed, not sure if there is an AP-660 yet though, but the PX-860 and AP-460 exist already smile


Selftaught since June 2014.
Books: Barratt classic piano course bk 1,2,3. Humphries Piano handbook, various...
Kawai CA78, Casio AP450 & software pianos.
[Linked Image] 12x ABF recitals.
My struggles: https://soundcloud.com/alexander-borro
Re: Yamaha YDP-V240 vs Casio AP 650 [Re: BensDream] #2336914
10/13/14 10:19 AM
10/13/14 10:19 AM
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Posts: 457
Between Chicago and NJ, USA
Mike_Martin Offline
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The differences in action and grand piano sound are significant. The AP-650 has damper and string simulation, in addition to release velocity, lid simulation and more. The YDP-V240 simply doesn't provide any nuance and detail like this to its piano sound. Casio's Tri-sensor scaled hammer action in my opinion is also a huge step up from the GHS action as well.

As mentioned above the AP-650 has audio outputs to connect to an additional speaker system or mixer. It even has audio inputs which allow you to run another device such as an iPad or computer through the AP-650's speaker system.

In addition to standard MIDI ports the AP-650 has class compliant USB MIDI connections allowing you to use it with a computer without the need for drivers. This includes easy connectivity to an iPad. The YDP-V240 requires drivers, isn't class compliant and doesn't have regular MIDI ports which makes use with an iPad impossible.

I was asked privately if the AP-650 displayed music notation on its display. No it does not.







-Mike Martin
Casio America

Casio Music Forums
Re: Yamaha YDP-V240 vs Casio AP 650 [Re: Alexander Borro] #2336916
10/13/14 10:25 AM
10/13/14 10:25 AM
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BensDream Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Alexander Borro
Hi Ben,

Something I forgot to mention Casio are soon to release their new models, though I do not know when in Europe. In fact on the Casio website you can already see the upgraded PX ranges like the PX-860, they've gone from AP-x50 or PX-x50 to 60 at end.

Seeing you asked about reverb options as well. This exactly what has been added, like Hall, Church and so for a much more reverb heavy sound. I recall a couple of sound demos or two already floating around on youtube.

The manuals for the updated model are already downloadable from the Casio website. You could take a peek to see what's changed, not sure if there is an AP-660 yet though, but the PX-860 and AP-460 exist already smile


Thank you for the heads-up - It seems that they're not releasing new versions of the 6xx series yet, though I don't think I'll hold out on them.

Originally Posted by Mike_Martin
The differences in action and grand piano sound are significant. The AP-650 has damper and string simulation, in addition to release velocity, lid simulation and more. The YDP-V240 simply doesn't provide any nuance and detail like this to its piano sound. Casio's Tri-sensor scaled hammer action in my opinion is also a huge step up from the GHS action as well.

As mentioned above the AP-650 has audio outputs to connect to an additional speaker system or mixer. It even has audio inputs which allow you to run another device such as an iPad or computer through the AP-650's speaker system.

In addition to standard MIDI ports the AP-650 has class compliant USB MIDI connections allowing you to use it with a computer without the need for drivers. This includes easy connectivity to an iPad. The YDP-V240 requires drivers, isn't class compliant and doesn't have regular MIDI ports which makes use with an iPad impossible.

I was asked privately if the AP-650 displayed music notation on its display. No it does not.


Thanks Mike, I'm going with the Casio! I 100% agree that from videos I've seen the sound on the Yamaha is nowhere as good, neither is the action of it.

Is it possible to link my Casio up to my PC and have the notes show on my PC monitor? i.e. Rather than having on-screen notation, can I have notation on my monitor? If so, is it also possible to have lessons similar to the Yamaha lessons where you play along with it and it doesn't progress until you press the notes required? Not something that I'm sure will be necessary but knowing that the possibility is there would be nice.

Many thanks.

Last edited by BensDream; 10/13/14 10:42 AM.
Re: Yamaha YDP-V240 vs Casio AP 650 [Re: BensDream] #2336945
10/13/14 12:20 PM
10/13/14 12:20 PM
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BensDream Offline OP
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Update: Just bought the AP-650 for 999.99, stool included. Arriving Thursday and looking forward to it, thanks everyone!

Re: Yamaha YDP-V240 vs Casio AP 650 [Re: BensDream] #2336947
10/13/14 12:23 PM
10/13/14 12:23 PM
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toddy Offline
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Excellent. Look forward to hearing your review on it. I was going to get an AP450 or 650 myself at one stage but could not find one to try out. So I got the Roland instead, from among the models I was able to experiment with.


Roland HP 302 / Samson Graphite 49 / Akai EWI

Reaper / Native Instruments K9 ult / ESQL MOR2 Symph Orchestra & Choirs / Lucato & Parravicini , trumpets & saxes / Garritan CFX lite / Production Voices C7 & Steinway D compact

Focusrite Saffire 24 / W7, i7 4770, 16GB / MXL V67g / Yamaha HS7s / HD598
Re: Yamaha YDP-V240 vs Casio AP 650 [Re: BensDream] #2336955
10/13/14 12:55 PM
10/13/14 12:55 PM
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Alexander Borro Offline
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Have fun. getting a piano delivered makes you feel like a little child, or at least I did laugh like looking forward to a new toy.

The assembly takes not very long at all, very easy, I would think in that regard it should be pretty much the same as the AP-450 I own.

There are many things not covered in the videos online even by Casio or others, but the tweaking for the sound can be further enhanced/changed/finetuned not often mentioned in reviews, for example a couple of the keys down the far right you can customise sound brightness too. I found over time upping the brightness a couple of notches on the default grand sound I preferred. There is a quite a bit of noodling 'n' doodling you can do to this piano to massage the sound.

It is well worth having a good look through the manual, because quite few little complaints I heard even in reviews with regard to my AP-450 where it was stated you cannot do a,b or c are in fact possible, I don't recall the exact things right now but often they are hidden away on the (unlabelled )keys somewhere, with the little LCD on the AP-650 perhaps some of that stuff is easier to do and access some features.

Last edited by Alexander Borro; 10/13/14 12:56 PM.

Selftaught since June 2014.
Books: Barratt classic piano course bk 1,2,3. Humphries Piano handbook, various...
Kawai CA78, Casio AP450 & software pianos.
[Linked Image] 12x ABF recitals.
My struggles: https://soundcloud.com/alexander-borro
Re: Yamaha YDP-V240 vs Casio AP 650 [Re: BensDream] #2337076
10/13/14 07:34 PM
10/13/14 07:34 PM
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MossySF Offline
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Originally Posted by BensDream
Is it possible to link my Casio up to my PC and have the notes show on my PC monitor? i.e. Rather than having on-screen notation, can I have notation on my monitor? If so, is it also possible to have lessons similar to the Yamaha lessons where you play along with it and it doesn't progress until you press the notes required? Not something that I'm sure will be necessary but knowing that the possibility is there would be nice.


This type of software exists and should work with any MIDI instrument. Ranges from open-source/free (PianoBooster) to fancy-pants commercial (Home Concert Extreme) to game-like (Synthesia).

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