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Re: How muchis action regulation? [Re: dcnm50] #2327314
09/13/14 11:19 PM
09/13/14 11:19 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Rochester MN
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014
Minnesota Marty  Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Rochester MN
May I suggest that you have another inspection by a different tech.

If that piano has been well kept, a pin block shouldn't be failing after 10 years. If it had regular tunings up until a year ago, it should not have been so out of tune that an inspection would have been impossible. Did the tuning sound that bad to you?

Personally, I'm not sure if the info you have been given by the tech has been accurate. If it is accurate, those are too many red flags for a 10 y/o Kawai. Are the sellers the original owners? Have you verified the serial number to confirm the age of the piano?

One of two things seems to be a dog. Without a second inspection, it is impossible to tell which.

How much did you pay for the inspection? Or, were you told that the inspection would be free if you agreed to use his services in the future?

These are all things to think about.


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
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Re: How muchis action regulation? [Re: Minnesota Marty] #2327320
09/14/14 12:01 AM
09/14/14 12:01 AM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 25
D
dcnm50 Offline OP
Full Member
dcnm50  Offline OP
Full Member
D

Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 25
Thank you, Marty, for nice suggestion.

I paid $150, he almost did all the tuning for about 1 hour 10 mins.

I completely respect your advice about having second rot to check it, but I am really not sure if I should spend another $150 .

The seller is original owner with paperwork. I have verified the serial number that is made in 2004.

You all are right....too many things to worry. I think I would cool off for a few days.

Re: How muchis action regulation? [Re: dcnm50] #2327329
09/14/14 12:56 AM
09/14/14 12:56 AM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,823
🎹
Retsacnal Offline

Platinum Supporter until Feb 18  2015
Retsacnal  Offline

Platinum Supporter until Feb 18  2015


Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,823
🎹
I want to endorse the idea of having a 2nd tech look at this piano (assuming that you're still interested). Sadly, there are people in the world who are so desperate to make a buck that they will lie to you about a piano in the hopes that they can convince you to pay them to do a lot of work that it either doesn't need, or that far exceeds its value. Read here about my 1st experience with an RPT. Since you have already hired them for their "expertise," they seek to exploit your trust to their own advantage, and that may be the case here.

dcnm50, I also want to encourage you to be a little more specific about where you're located. It will help people here make recommendations about trusted techs who could help you, but also because I have a really funny feeling about this. You say mid Atlantic region, but if we're talking about Maryland, I'd really like to know it. This guy's MO sounds strangely familiar to me.


"If it sounds good, it is good." - Duke Ellington
P E R F O R M A N C E over p r o v e n a n c e

Re: How muchis action regulation? [Re: dcnm50] #2327347
09/14/14 02:35 AM
09/14/14 02:35 AM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 609
Arkansas
S
supersport Offline
500 Post Club Member
supersport  Offline
500 Post Club Member
S

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 609
Arkansas
Hi,

You need to confirm the age exactly and when it was first sold since the Kawai warranty is 10 years and might come into play if it has loose tuning pins.


David



Re: How muchis action regulation? [Re: supersport] #2327389
09/14/14 08:28 AM
09/14/14 08:28 AM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 25
D
dcnm50 Offline OP
Full Member
dcnm50  Offline OP
Full Member
D

Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 25
Originally Posted by supersport
Hi,

You need to confirm the age exactly and when it was first sold since the Kawai warranty is 10 years and might come into play if it has loose tuning pins.


Hi, Dave,

I did confirm it was made in 2004 by its serial number. It was sold in 2005, the seller has original paperwork from dealer, looks like invoice (pink paper), but without selling price on it. I also asked him to contact Kawai about the full regulation next week, and let me know the result.

Thanks.

Re: How muchis action regulation? [Re: Retsacnal] #2327391
09/14/14 08:35 AM
09/14/14 08:35 AM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 25
D
dcnm50 Offline OP
Full Member
dcnm50  Offline OP
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D

Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 25
Retsacnal,

Just sent you a PM about location.

Yes, it is in MD.

Re: How muchis action regulation? [Re: dcnm50] #2327396
09/14/14 08:56 AM
09/14/14 08:56 AM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 617
Columbus, GA
S
S. Phillips Offline
500 Post Club Member
S. Phillips  Offline
500 Post Club Member
S

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 617
Columbus, GA
The amount of work done in regulating is directly related to the amount of playing and maintenance that a piano has had. The folks at Kawai won't be able to help much in this regard unless they can inspect the piano personally. There is no way of telling how many hours the technician will need to do the work because every piano will change in regulation depending on the wear of the action. A home piano that is played several hours a week will need much less than a practice room piano that is played 12 hours a day.

If the piano action needs repining, hammer filing, key rebushing etc it may take three times as long as a piano that simply needs be touch up regulated. No one at Kawai will be able to predict these conditions so there is really no set price for service. Basically it takes as long as it takes given the skill and experience of the technician. Most skilled technicians will charge somewhere around $120 per hour or more depending on the general prices in the market. This job could take as few as 5-8 hours or 20+.

Here is my article on regulation which may serve to clarify some of your questions.
http://www.pianobuyer.com/PDFarchive/2012_PerformanceQualityPianos.pdf



Sally Phillips
Owner/ Technician
Piano Perfect, LLC
Steinway & Sons Pianos
Columbus, GA
New Steinway, Boston and Essex pianos
www.steinwaypiano.com
Acoustic Piano Technical Consultant - Acoustic and Digital Piano Buyer
http://www.pianobuyer.com/current-issue/07a-should-i-have-my-piano-rebuilt.html
Re: How muchis action regulation? [Re: dcnm50] #2327434
09/14/14 10:45 AM
09/14/14 10:45 AM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 609
Arkansas
S
supersport Offline
500 Post Club Member
supersport  Offline
500 Post Club Member
S

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 609
Arkansas
I really wasn't referencing the regulation since that would be a normal maintenance item but if the pin block is failing would or could that be a warranty issue?


David



Re: How muchis action regulation? [Re: dcnm50] #2327511
09/14/14 05:42 PM
09/14/14 05:42 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,403
SouthWest Michigan
R
Roger Ransom Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Roger Ransom  Offline
1000 Post Club Member
R

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,403
SouthWest Michigan
How does it feel, play and sound. Are the keys pretty even and feel about alike? Do the notes sound pretty even? Are there a bunch of sticky keys? Etc.

It also matters how critical you are and how well you play (I don't know you). Maybe ask someone else that plays give it a try and see what they think.

You may not immediately need a big regulation. If it's not too bad maybe you should take it home and just play it until YOU think it needs a lot of adjustments.


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Re: How muchis action regulation? [Re: dcnm50] #2327518
09/14/14 05:56 PM
09/14/14 05:56 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 607
Los Angeles
G
Gatsbee13 Offline
500 Post Club Member
Gatsbee13  Offline
500 Post Club Member
G

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 607
Los Angeles
since were on the topic of regulation.. how much would it roughly cost for a complete regulation of an upright.. mine is a Charles Walter console (43")

Re: How muchis action regulation? [Re: Gatsbee13] #2327538
09/14/14 07:13 PM
09/14/14 07:13 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 932
Queensland, Australia
backto_study_piano Offline
500 Post Club Member
backto_study_piano  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 932
Queensland, Australia
Originally Posted by Gatsbee13
since were on the topic of regulation.. how much would it roughly cost for a complete regulation of an upright.. mine is a Charles Walter console (43")


Gatsbee13 - I suggest you start a new topic - very different question.


Alan from Queensland, Australia (and Clara - my Grotrian Concert & Allen Organ (CF-17a)).
Re: How muchis action regulation? [Re: dcnm50] #2327539
09/14/14 07:16 PM
09/14/14 07:16 PM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 5,039
Seattle, WA USA
E
Ed McMorrow, RPT Offline
5000 Post Club Member
Ed McMorrow, RPT  Offline
5000 Post Club Member
E

Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 5,039
Seattle, WA USA
If one loose tuning pin is enough to qualify a used piano as "Don't Buy"- there are quite a few newer Steinways in that class. A professional technician should be able to return the pin to serviceable condition for very little cost.


In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible.
According to NASA, 93% of the earth like planets possible in the known universe have yet to be formed.
Contact: Ed@LightHammerpiano.com
Re: How muchis action regulation? [Re: dcnm50] #2327543
09/14/14 07:22 PM
09/14/14 07:22 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 932
Queensland, Australia
backto_study_piano Offline
500 Post Club Member
backto_study_piano  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 932
Queensland, Australia
Originally Posted by dcnm50
BDB, you probably can tell that I am hesitating to let it go....I might get it for around 8k, so if I spend another (let's say) 2k for most of these issues excluding DC, plus moving and others, I am looking at $11000 for a 2004 Kawai RX-2, it is impossible to get it from any dealer across the states.

Another thing I have to tell you, the seller has posted it for 9 months and over 900+ views, it does make me wondering why it stays there for such a long time. I bet someone already check it out before....guessing of course.

To be honest, I don't know what to do.


Hi

in the piano buying "game", the key is DON'T RUSH.

Questions I have - how many pianos have you played? How long have you been looking? Why has it taken so long to sell - ie, has everyone else opted for a better option?

In a marketplace where there is close to an infinite number of options, you need to consider many, many of them - or risk being disappointed. When I read about a near-new piano with strings needing replacing, loose tuning pins - I'd go into "walk-away quickly" mode. There is another piano for you somewhere.

I initially was looking at that general price range - and one of my choices was between an "very-average" grand or a "good" upright - something you may want to consider. (In my case, finances dramatically changed, so I was able to move upmarket.)


Alan from Queensland, Australia (and Clara - my Grotrian Concert & Allen Organ (CF-17a)).
Re: How muchis action regulation? [Re: dcnm50] #2327583
09/14/14 10:22 PM
09/14/14 10:22 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,823
🎹
Retsacnal Offline

Platinum Supporter until Feb 18  2015
Retsacnal  Offline

Platinum Supporter until Feb 18  2015


Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,823
🎹
Originally Posted by dcnm50
Retsacnal,

Just sent you a PM about location.

Yes, it is in MD.


We conferred offline--it is not the same RPT.


"If it sounds good, it is good." - Duke Ellington
P E R F O R M A N C E over p r o v e n a n c e

Re: How muchis action regulation? [Re: backto_study_piano] #2327586
09/14/14 10:42 PM
09/14/14 10:42 PM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 25
D
dcnm50 Offline OP
Full Member
dcnm50  Offline OP
Full Member
D

Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 25
Hi

in the piano buying "game", the key is DON'T RUSH.

Questions I have - how many pianos have you played? How long have you been looking? Why has it taken so long to sell - ie, has everyone else opted for a better option?

In a marketplace where there is close to an infinite number of options, you need to consider many, many of them - or risk being disappointed. When I read about a near-new piano with strings needing replacing, loose tuning pins - I'd go into "walk-away quickly" mode. There is another piano for you somewhere.

I initially was looking at that general price range - and one of my choices was between an "very-average" grand or a "good" upright - something you may want to consider. (In my case, finances dramatically changed, so I was able to move upmarket.) [/quote]

Sorry, I cannot answer these questions. I don't play piano, I am buying for my son.

Our initial thinking is to buy 4-5k upright piano, but my son was not impressed by Yamaha U1 or U3, likely my fault because I showed him a few new and used grand piano. Then I found this one, looks like a steal in 8-10k range until these issues are up.

You are absolutely right about "There is another piano for you somewhere."

I wanted to thank you for everyone's advices and opinions, really appreciate it.

I will stop here.

Re: How muchis action regulation? [Re: dcnm50] #2327622
09/15/14 02:13 AM
09/15/14 02:13 AM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,006
Reseda, California
J
JohnSprung Offline
Unobtanium Subscriber
JohnSprung  Offline
Unobtanium Subscriber
J

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,006
Reseda, California
I'm in no position to judge whether this tech is steering you in the right direction or trying to steer your money into his bank account. Given the suspicions, I'd recommend that you spend a few bucks on Angie's List. See how this tech rates, if he's there. And if you want a second opinion, you can pick another tech with confidence based on actual customer reports. And AL is worth having for anything else you need to hire somebody to do -- doctors, contractors, mechanics, etc.



-- J.S.

[Linked Image] [Linked Image]

Knabe Grand # 10927
Yamaha CP33
Kawai FS690
Re: How muchis action regulation? [Re: dcnm50] #2327634
09/15/14 03:41 AM
09/15/14 03:41 AM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,158
The Netherlands
W
WimPiano Offline
2000 Post Club Member
WimPiano  Offline
2000 Post Club Member
W

Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,158
The Netherlands
Originally Posted by dcnm50

I will stop here.

I hope you don't mean: I will quit posting here wink

Re: How muchis action regulation? [Re: dcnm50] #2327638
09/15/14 04:00 AM
09/15/14 04:00 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 932
Queensland, Australia
backto_study_piano Offline
500 Post Club Member
backto_study_piano  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 932
Queensland, Australia
Originally Posted by dcnm50
Hi

in the piano buying "game", the key is DON'T RUSH.

I will stop here.


Hi - Sorry - I didn't realise that you don't play - but the same principles apply - don't rush, play plenty of pianos, work out what is the best piano for your budget (all the time working out where your budget sits). But in your case, it will be someone else playing the piano.

The other thing to remember is that, for most of us, the piano we buy today is quite possibly not going to be our last or ultimate piano. I had a Yamaha UX (predecessor of a YUS3) which I used for 30 years - it was getting quite worn with a lot of use by myself and our 3 children by the end of that time. Eventually, due to a number of circumstances, I was able to move towards my ideal piano, but I did it in 2 steps.

Maybe you'll enjoy the process so much that you'll decide to become one of the many "adult beginners" - there is a dedicated forum on this website dedicated to them.


Alan from Queensland, Australia (and Clara - my Grotrian Concert & Allen Organ (CF-17a)).
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