Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Pianist Corner Steinway Model O at my house indefinitely?

So a friend from the ballet studio had an aunt who was a concert pianist. She had a Steinway O (1921) as her personal piano and played it up until her death. Since then, it has been in his son's house, and tuned somewhat regularly, but other than that, nothing has been done to it, and his son and family do not play piano.

They are relocating across the country (the son and his family, that is) and today my friend approached me to see if perhaps I would want to...store his piano at my house. His son and his family do not want to pay to move the piano across country, do not have the room for it, and frankly do not have the use for it.

My friend is a wonderful pianist himself, as is his wife, but they already have two grand pianos at their house and have no room for this one.

My sense is that my friend would like to keep this piano in the family because of its sentimental value, and he's afraid his son will simply sell it to get rid of it. Indeed, when I went to go see it today, the son was clear he was going to entertain any offer I had for him.

So I guess my question is, what should I do now? I told them that I'd be happy to store it at my house. As long as it's even marginally playable (which it is), I'm happy to put it end to end with my own piano and just give it some occasional love and attention and tune it until they decide what they want to do with it.

But I could just buy it. In its current state it cannot be my primary piano, but, well, I HAVE a piano and it could certainly be a project for another year as long as it's worth restoring, which I don't yet know that it is. I very deliberately bought a new piano so that I would not have to muddy the water with trying to figure out the value of a used piano, evaluate how it's been stored and kept and maintained, and make any calculation of potential value once restored to see if it's worth it or whether or not it's an enormous paper weight.

I'm pretty sure I should post over in the Piano Forum, or maybe in the tech forum. I also know I need to have someone come in and evaluate the piano directly.

But while I wrap my head around the next step, anybody want to weigh in? Because I am, frankly, confused. Obviously my friend and his son have to figure out what they want to do with the piano--sell it or keep it in the family. I'm happy to foster care it, I really am. I think they'd take a reasonable amount of money simply to buy it if I wanted to, and I get the sense the son's preferences rule--it's his piano, after all. I also get the sense that this would be ok with his father simply because he knows and likes me and it would be well-cared for and appreciated.

I'll put some pictures up in the next post.

It is playable. It's sort of in tune. It has extremely hard hammers. It has a very light action that clearly at one time was very nice, but right now it's uneven.

The piano case is in somewhat rough shape. The fallboard has a lot of nicks and scratches and several gouges.

On the one hand, it appears as though you are a "convenience factor" for the current owners of the piano. They have yet to decide what, eventually, to do with it, but in the meantime with a move precipitating some kind of decision, they ask you to "store" it for them.

Presumably they will pay to move it to your home and, presumably, as well, you will be responsible for maintaining it in return for the use of it, or do they maintain it for you in return for the convenient storage?

I guess much depends on how much room you have to store an almost-six-foot Steinway and how much you might want to store it. Whether you offer to buy it depends upon initial purchase cost, condition, and what it might cost to bring it up to criteria that might make you happy.

It's an interesting dilemma; it will be worth following.

Edit : Your second post was made while I was writing mine. In view of the known condition of the piano, to say nothing of what else that nearly one hundred year old piano might have in store, I would be less inclined than I might otherwise have been to be the willing recipient of a piano that might not get much loving use. From a musician's point of view, it would seem even more a "storage convenience" than the addition of another instrument.

Regards,

I sort of have the room. I wouldn't mind it going tail to tail with my current piano, at least for the time being.

I could buy it. I assume there is a condition in which a piano can be in in which its value is below zero (cost to remove it exceeds value) but I'm fairly certain this piano is not of negligible value, given that it feels moderately playable and for better or worse sports a brand name people recognize.

I know a piano store did offer to buy it, in order to then restore it and resell it, so my guess is that it is capable of being restored or that would not have been offered. They told him once restored it would have a value of about $30,000. I say that not because I'd sell it, but just in case this gives anybody any information as to the general scope of things.

What kind of piano do you currently own? I ask, because IF (and that's a big if for a 93 year old instrument) all it needs is regulation, voicing and tuning, then in the hands of a skilled tech it could easily be brought into excellent playing condition that might surpass what you currently own.

I'd recommend paying a tech to give his/her evaluation of it. If the soundboard, pinblock and action parts are in decent condition, and the price is good (sounds like the son is willing to bargain), I think it would be well worth buying and letting a good tech bring it back into fine regulation, voicing and tune.

Ok, so I called a place that is knowledgeable in the field of Steinway restoration.

Basically, their sense is that based on its make, model and year, and the price being asked, it's worthy of restoration in almost any condition.

So now the question is, do I want a Steinway rebuilding project? This means that at some point down the road, I'm going to have to sink as much as $30,000 into it, even if I don't do it right away. It is true that at some point I did want to upgrade to a better piano, but there's a difference between assuming one day I would buy a better piano, and knowing that I must buy one (in the form of a full rebuild) in order to not lose the purchase price of an antique piano. And even if I don't do it right away, I will have what may be a large paperweight until then.

Now, chances are I will be able to sell it and at least break even based on its asking price. Chances are also that maybe not all of it is in need of rebuilding. Plus, in terms of pianos I would want to buy to upgrade from my current one, there's no doubt that Steinway, and particularly the Model O, is at the very top of that list. Well, it shares that position with maybe one or two others, but it's safe to say that Steinway O is pretty much the benchmark.

If the action currently feels light, this piano must not be troubled by the verdigris problem that some Steinways of that vintage have. Adam's advice sounds good to me. I guess the soundboard and pinblock would be the biggest question marks. $30,000 does not sound high for post-restoration of a vintage Steinway O; in fact, I wonder if they were planning full restoration or what is sometimes called "refurbishing."

I have a feeling it could get a little messy to be storing it for people--but it depends on your relationship with the owners.

My last post crossed yours. I think a lot depends on how much rebuilding it would really take to get it into good playing condition. So I'd pay someone to take a look at it. It sounds as if you can get it for a good price. I might find it hard to resist if I were you.

I think there's a thread somewhere on the Piano Forum about "Piano Acquisition Syndrome." I don't have this as I don't have the space, but once you have two pianos in the house, you might be at risk.

I own a Cunningham 178 Parlor Grand.

It's possible there are several salvageable elements of it. If you click on the picture above, it'll take you to a gallery of pictures I took of it.

The risk is, of course, that despite the fact that I'm being TOLD that it simply sat in a living room for several decades, moved once, and sat in another living room for several decades more, that it might be in deplorable condition. You know, in standing water or stored outside for a year under a tarp. But it appears as if that's not the case. If you look at the pictures, sure, the veneer is dinged up, it's dusty and dull inside. But, for example, the keys are not destroyed--they look nice, even, and unchipped and the ivory is original. It's not wobbly or deformed in any way.

It just seems like what it is is OLD and despite living a relatively uncomplicated life in several living rooms, the things that naturally come along with that are probably true about it--soundboard, pinblock, hammers, etc. The things that people assume don't degrade over time but totally do.

I guess what I'm saying is that it's possible that there are some things that could be done to vastly improve this piano without a full rebuild, but I gotta go into this assuming it's going to need a full rebuild.

It would be nice if it could be propped up to playable condition in the meantime, however!

LOL, I'm not sure I want to see that thread.

Anyway, my major issue is buying a dud. From what I understand, there are very few pianos that make sense to rebuild at all, even ignoring the acquisition cost of the piano. For almost all pianos, the cost to rebuild exceeds the resultant value of the piano. But there are a few pianos that make financial and aesthetic sense to rebuild almost no matter what. This would appear to be one of them.

So I seem to have the right piano at the right price. I just have to be ok with the rebuild cost, really, and be sure that I have someone professionally qualified to do the rebuild properly.

No, this would be a full rebuild, and that was the price given to me when I called a restoration shop asking about it. $30,000 (ok, $28,900) is the cost to take a Steinway from whatever condition it is currently in and rebuild it to the best money can buy. Basically, $28,900 covers everything that might be wrong with it, even if the thing has to taken down to the case. And what comes out is a piano that will be worth, worst case scenario, around that price. Which means that even in the worst case scenario, it sounds like I break even and end up owning an instrument I would choose for myself anyway, and would treasure for years and years to come.

Two piano duets! What's not to like???

LOL! I'm glad I'm not the only idiot to think the only thing better than one grand piano in a living room is TWO grand pianos in a living room!

In fact, my teacher was there when this whole idea was proposed, and we looked immediately at each other and said, "DUETS!" LOL!

Road block: husband is none too pleased about two pianos in our living room. Which makes sense, considering his perfect living room contains zero pianos. What's more, to him, the acquisition cost of this piano is total loss because he has no interest in owning it, and is wholly uninterested in its potential. Because what would result would be an instrument he still personally values at $0, and now has cost him over $30,000.

Hmm. That is, indeed, difficult.

I suppose that one way to go about this would be to commit to it ONLY if it can equal or better my Cunningham with a partial rebuild/restore that, in addition to the acquisition cost of the Steinway, would cost less than the resale value of the Cunningham. That is to say, for the money I would clear selling the Cunningham, could I buy the Steinway and make it a better instrument than the Cunningham and at least break even? If that's possible, then that solves both of his problems: disinterest in having less money than before (even if it's not that much, and even if the argument could be made that it's simply a liquid/illiquid idea, and not a cost) and having to tolerate a large object in a space where he does not want a large object because he already has a large object very similar to it.

That is, of course, assuming he does have an opinion as to WHICH piano occupies the space currently occupied by a piano. But I suspect he does not. Only that there are not two of them.

That might be something to consider.

The downside is, of course, that I doom myself to 6-12 months of NO piano when it comes time to rebuild it. And it presupposes that this piano be in better condition than it has to be simply to merit the rebuild process at all, because it will have to function as my piano until I choose to rebuild.

I would be very leery of any rebuilder that quotes a price without inspecting the piano.

Also, remember that you don't know how the piano will sound/feel after it's rebuilt, even if the rebuilder is excellent. If you want a rebuilt Steinway, IMO it's much better to look at newly rebuilt ones and see which you like.

About the possibility of buying the Steinway and restoring it, in having a piano restored there is no way to know in advance if you will like the outcome and if so how much you will like it - it makes sense when considering the cost of restoring a piano to select from pianos already restored, to be selective . . . here you can't be selective, there is ONE piano to choose from and you don't know how it will sound/feel/respond at the other end of the tunnel. It doesn't matter that it is a Steinway - you DON'T KNOW if you will like the restoration outcome or not, the Cunningham MIGHT be preferable. In which case you would be burdened with the Cunningham you like, a Steinway you aren't happy about and need to sell (presumably with taxes involved and other complications possible), and probably a disgruntled husband.

Something about the whole proposal from your friends doesn't feel right to me. They are emotionally tethered to the piano, and want to tether you to it as well. If they have room for two grands at the new place and are willing to have this one stored somewhere I would say that this piano is the one they value the least. Maybe it is best to let them sort out their own priorities, situations, pianos . . . they don't need you to "save" them from having to get rid of this one, they can sell one of the others . . . we all have to make decisions in life from time to time that we don't want to face, maybe for them this is one of those times. Maybe they have relatives who can take the 1921 Steinway onboard.

Don't let the magic of the Steinway name seduce you into buying this Steinway and financing its restoration. A piano is a lot of money. One always wants to be selective no matter who the piano maker is.

You beat me to it!

I would say no to the storing idea. It could get messy and potentially ruin the friendship you have with the father. Not worth it. Either buy it as-is, or pass on the whole thing and recommend they sell it on craigslist.

If you are considering buying, pay a tech to look at it first, one who would potentially be the restorer before you make an offer. Have an idea of what you're getting into, and if you really want to get into it. Also, if you are considering buying another piano, look at other pianos in the same price range to get some perspective. Don't feel you have to accept this piano because it seems like a good opportunity on the surface.

If you find a way to get a spouse to agree to 2 grand pianos let me know.