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Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming [Re: Minnesota Marty] #2322194 08/31/14 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Minnesota Marty
Please keep in mind that he was known as Fred in the USA. "Fridolin" never appeared on his pianos.
I vote for Frederic Schimmel !! grin


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Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming [Re: Steve Cohen] #2322606 09/01/14 10:11 AM
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I’m glad to see the humor in this thread, but I hate to see the snarkiness… However, we are all human and I’m not always in a good mood myself.

Just something to think about…

Rick


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Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming [Re: Retsacnal] #2322618 09/01/14 10:38 AM
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Reading back through this thread, I was struck by this statement:

Originally Posted by Retsacnal
I think a group of entrepreneurs who put together a new design and build it in a new facility could claim to be a "new brand," and it would be cool to see, but I doubt it would happen.

Cunningham immediately came to mind.

This is a good thing.


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Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming [Re: Steve Cohen] #2322639 09/01/14 11:32 AM
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While it might seem like frivolous frittering and frippery, if I were Schimmel I'd be a little concerned about the response to the brand name of "Fridolin". It's almost as if we just had an informal focus group on the question "What do you think of when you hear the name 'Fridolin' ?" If I were a piano manufacturer, I would not want to be conjuring up dwarves, hobbits or cheeses... of course, this might be very different in other countries, particularly German-speaking ones.

Just think if this question had come up when the name "Fazioli" was being proposed! (Anybody for a plate of pasta e fazioli?) laugh

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming [Re: sophial] #2322661 09/01/14 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by sophial
While it might seem like frivolous frittering and frippery, if I were Schimmel I'd be a little concerned about the response to the brand name of "Fridolin". It's almost as if we just had an informal focus group on the question "What do you think of when you hear the name 'Fridolin' ?" If I were a piano manufacturer, I would not want to be conjuring up dwarves, hobbits or cheeses... of course, this might be very different in other countries, particularly German-speaking ones.


Were they a client, I would have advised another name and a new marketing strategy.


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Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming [Re: Almaviva] #2322906 09/01/14 11:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Almaviva
that means that Schimmel will now have FIVE piano lines. Or will this new "Fridolin" line replace either the Schimmel International line, the Wilhelm Schimmel line, or both of them?


Yes, they will have five.

In order of descending price

Schimmel Konzert Made in Germany seal applied

Schimmel Classic Made in Germany seal applied

Schimmel International Made in Germany seal applied; brand new series, 4 verticals, two grands

Wilhelm Schimmel Made in Europe seal applied; actually manufactured at Schimmel's factory in Kalisz, Poland that manufactured the Vogel

Fridolin by Schimmel, no seal, modest claims, new series, but not as new as Internationl, OEM, two verticals and two grands

I woudl guess that Schimmel is hedging its bets on the Fridolin and not ordering a ton of them. Entry-level OEM lines don't always have a long lifespan. Sometimes they disappear quietly.

If you're thinking five lines is a bit much, I agree with you.

Originally Posted by Sophial
if I were Schimmel I'd be a little concerned about the response to the brand name of "Fridolin". It's almost as if we just had an informal focus group on the question "What do you think of when you hear the name 'Fridolin' ?"


If Schimmel did test the name on a focus group, naturally they would choose people from their market focus group, people who were likely to buy a lower cost piano. That would not include any of those here who voiced strong disapproval of the name, the piano, the marketing, the thread title, the concept of dumbed down entry level, and even the concept of a price point, for goodness sake.

People who want to buy a low cost piano are drawn by the appearance, the sound, and the salesmn'a skills at presenting the piano. Of course if they play the piano, they'll consider the action as well.

The only names that resonate with prospective buyers of new low cost pianos are Kawai's name on its stuff from Indonesia and Yamaha's name on its stuff from China and Indonesia.

Fridolin may not be a great name, but Fridolin by Schimmel sounds as good to me as Essex by Steinway. I can remember when Essex debuted, there were many cracks about how Steinway should have called it SX by Steinway or SEX by Steinway. Yet Steinway made it work with good marketing and improvements in the instruments.



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Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming [Re: Steve Cohen] #2322918 09/02/14 01:00 AM
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  • Schimmelchen?
  • Schimmellein?
  • Schimmelke des Fridi?



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P E R F O R M A N C E over p r o v e n a n c e

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming [Re: Retsacnal] #2323030 09/02/14 07:35 AM
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[quote=Retsacnal][List][*]Schimmelchen? [*]Schimmellein? [*]Schimmelke des Fridi?[/list] [/quote] Are you trying to say something or just looking for attention?


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Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming [Re: turandot] #2323098 09/02/14 10:48 AM
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Turandot,

I have to disagree with you that name is not as relevant for the "low cost" buyer. Branding is an important part of marketing at all levels, otherwise why would advertisers put so much money into it? I wouldn't have picked "Essex" as a first choice brand name either, but it has a kind of Anglo-Saxon aristocratic association to it (Errol Flynn played the Earl of Essex- not bad) and it's easily legible and pronounceable. "Fridolin" on the other hand is not as easily legible or immediately understandable-- is it a name? a noun? where does the accent go? long or short vowels? And we've already discussed the associations it conjures. I hope I'm wrong but I think this might not be a good idea on Schimmel's part.

Last edited by sophial; 09/02/14 10:53 AM.
Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming [Re: Steve Cohen] #2323109 09/02/14 11:13 AM
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This name discussion my be moot because I've been told the initial sell through nationwide and end customer response has been strong and beyond expectations.


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Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming [Re: sophial] #2323726 09/03/14 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by sophial


I have to disagree with you that name is not as relevant for the "low cost" buyer. Branding is an important part of marketing at all levels, otherwise why would advertisers put so much money into it? I wouldn't have picked "Essex" as a first choice brand name either, but it has a kind of Anglo-Saxon aristocratic association to it (Errol Flynn played the Earl of Essex- not bad) and it's easily legible and pronounceable. "Fridolin" on the other hand is not as easily legible or immediately understandable-- is it a name? a noun? where does the accent go? long or short vowels? And we've already discussed the associations it conjures. I hope I'm wrong but I think this might not be a good idea on Schimmel's part.


Sophia,

It's always a pleasure to swap notes with you and I mean that. I will happily concede that he name could be relevant in that given a choice between two unfamiliar names, the consumer would probably like one more than the other, regardless of the level or the cost of the product.

The point I was making is that there are no names that resonate at the low end except for the budget models of Yamaha and Kawai. Everything else is neutral. Nothing other than those two will instill confidence in the typical low end shopper -- unless and until he educates himself further.

I'll also concede that Fridolin is not necessarily a good name, but bear in mind that the low cost piano shopper without a familiar name from which to draw confidence will likely be dealing with subconscious penetration of the product name, rather than conscious questions about how Fridolin fits historically into the Schimmel family tree, and whether he deserves to have a piano named for him.

Now to dance on the head of a pin for a moment grin, let me suggest that the three syllable sequence of [ fri doh lin ] with its soft comfotable consonants framing its [ i o i ] vowel pattern, sounds equally mellifluous and poetic whether you stress the first syllable or the last. Try it! You'll like it! grin

The only unpleasant pattern would be to put the stress on the second syllalbe [ fri doh lin]. That does not sound good, and would be an egregious error by the sales pro in his presentation of the piano.

On the other hand, [ess eks] with it hard harsh consonants is not fun at all, downright unmusical and unpoetic in fact. The subconscious penetration may well induce a severe headahce. The [ks] cluster ends the name abruptly and prematurely, leaving the consumer with the thought: "That's it? That's all you've got? You've got to be kidding me!" unless the consumer happens to be a fan of vinatage Errol Flynn film roles. grin

Should the salespro happen to reduce the first syllable as a way of gliding into a stressed second syllable [es seks], the error would not only be egregious, but downright immoral. The only thing he could do to salvage the situation at that point would be to quickly add "by Steinway". grin

Jumping down from the pinhead, I think the piano will stand or fall on what it is, where it can be seen, what it looks like, and what it costs, and that most of the negative branding comments here in this thread came from an elitist stance not normally associated with low cost pianos.


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Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming [Re: Steve Cohen] #2323868 09/03/14 10:16 PM
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Turandot,
And always a pleasure for me as well, even if we agree to disagree.
There are always associations to brand names, even if they are not explicit, as we found out with the spontaneous outpouring of dwarf, hobbit and cheese comments in response to "Fridolin". They likely have to do with words that the name evokes, rather than just the sound of the consonants and vowel patterns. All that aside, I hope I'm wrong and wish Schimmel well with their new venture. Good to have you around here again. smile

Sophia

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming [Re: turandot] #2323913 09/04/14 01:49 AM
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Originally Posted by turandot

Should the salespro happen to reduce the first syllable as a way of gliding into a stressed second syllable [es seks], the error would not only be egregious, but downright immoral. The only thing he could do to salvage the situation at that point would be to quickly add "by Steinway". grin


It seems like a big part of the sales training will be on how to pronounce Fridolin. But problem is, consumers are probably going to see the brand a bit before and already decide on a pronunciation and associate it with hobbits, cheese...for me, I pictured the character Gollum from Lord of the Rings. Not sure why.

Reminds me of when I was talking to a sales person over the phone about Hailun, which I didn't know about at the time. He pronounced it like "Highland" and that's what I imagined the spelling would be. He was upfront about it's Chinese origins so I pictured a brand that was named after geographical features, which isn't uncommon with Chinese companies. But I believe it's pronounced "high loon," no?

Anyway, if I were to guess the success of this brand, I don't see it taking much marketshare and that name might not help. There seems to be a flood of Chinese/Euro pianos with Roslau strings and Strungz soundboards to the point where it's almost cheapened those components - and all made by the same factories. But if Schimmel can control inventory they might improve their bottom line and get into the Chinese/Euro piano game.

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Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming [Re: BornInTheUSA] #2323925 09/04/14 02:49 AM
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Originally Posted by michaelha
Originally Posted by turandot

Should the salespro happen to reduce the first syllable as a way of gliding into a stressed second syllable [es seks], the error would not only be egregious, but downright immoral. The only thing he could do to salvage the situation at that point would be to quickly add "by Steinway". grin


There seems to be a flood of Chinese/Euro pianos with Roslau strings and Strungz soundboards to the point where it's almost cheapened those components - and all made by the same factories. But if Schimmel can control inventory they might improve their bottom line and get into the Chinese/Euro piano game.



Quite the opposite. Quality components don't "cheapen" themselves by being used in lesser known instruments. Rather, they improve the quality of those instruments which, in turn, makes it better for the consumer.

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming [Re: BornInTheUSA] #2324004 09/04/14 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by michaelha
Originally Posted by turandot

Should the salespro happen to reduce the first syllable as a way of gliding into a stressed second syllable [es seks], the error would not only be egregious, but downright immoral. The only thing he could do to salvage the situation at that point would be to quickly add "by Steinway". grin


It seems like a big part of the sales training will be on how to pronounce Fridolin. But problem is, consumers are probably going to see the brand a bit before and already decide on a pronunciation and associate it with hobbits, cheese...for me, I pictured the character Gollum from Lord of the Rings. Not sure why.


Please understand that I was just needling Sophia with that Essex send up. She's an avid fan of Steinway's premium brand. Classy person that she is, she took the needling in stride and stayed with her point, which is a good one.

I still have no idea why, but the page views cited for this thread now stand at 26,000. It just doesn't seem right, but maybe it proves once again that when Steve speaks, everyone listens. grin

Assuming that the number is correct, we could presume that among the thousands who read Steve's opener, a percentage were already familiar with Fridolin cheese, and that a percentage already had in mind a prior connection (I don't know exactly why) to hobbits and dwarfs. I had no prior connection of any kind. I was the tabula rasa, so in my case, the name, attached itself to me as a piano brand name. I had a flash in my mind about some large bodied soprano diva like Birgit Nilsson beginning a tragic aria with [Free doh leen] as she knelt next to her fallen lover Fridolin. But that was just a flash.

There must be a significant percentage of page viewers like me who, with no previous familiarity with the name Fridolin, first read Steve's post connecting it to a piano, and then read the loose references to cheese, hobbits, and dwarfs. It would be interesting to know what image won out in their minds. Food imagery can be powerful, as can imagery of strange frightening creatures. Dwarfs should not be frightening. I know a married dwarf couple who are small, but perfectly normal people. I'm guessing the dwarf reference must be to the Middle Earth dwarfs of German mythology.

At this point I have no particular desire to sample the cheese and no interest in spending my time on books or movies that tap German mythology. I do have an urge to get my fingers on a Fridolin piano if one appears in my local market. Until that happens, I'll make no judgment about what Schimmel has done with Del's piano.


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Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming [Re: turandot] #2324031 09/04/14 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by turandot
Originally Posted by michaelha
Originally Posted by turandot

Should the salespro happen to reduce the first syllable as a way of gliding into a stressed second syllable [es seks], the error would not only be egregious, but downright immoral. The only thing he could do to salvage the situation at that point would be to quickly add "by Steinway". grin


It seems like a big part of the sales training will be on how to pronounce Fridolin. But problem is, consumers are probably going to see the brand a bit before and already decide on a pronunciation and associate it with hobbits, cheese...for me, I pictured the character Gollum from Lord of the Rings. Not sure why.


Please understand that I was just needling Sophia with that Essex send up. She's an avid fan of Steinway's premium brand. Classy person that she is, she took the needling in stride and stayed with her point, which is a good one.

I still have no idea why, but the page views cited for this thread now stand at 26,000. It just doesn't seem right, but maybe it proves once again that when Steve speaks, everyone listens. grin

Assuming that the number is correct, we could presume that among the thousands who read Steve's opener, a percentage were already familiar with Fridolin cheese, and that a percentage already had in mind a prior connection (I don't know exactly why) to hobbits and dwarfs. I had no prior connection of any kind. I was the tabula rasa, so in my case, the name, attached itself to me as a piano brand name. I had a flash in my mind about some large bodied soprano diva like Birgit Nilsson beginning a tragic aria with [Free doh leen] as she knelt next to her fallen lover Fridolin. But that was just a flash.

There must be a significant percentage of page viewers like me who, with no previous familiarity with the name Fridolin, first read Steve's post connecting it to a piano, and then read the loose references to cheese, hobbits, and dwarfs. It would be interesting to know what image won out in their minds. Food imagery can be powerful, as can imagery of strange frightening creatures. Dwarfs should not be frightening. I know a married dwarf couple who are small, but perfectly normal people. I'm guessing the dwarf reference must be to the Middle Earth dwarfs of German mythology.

At this point I have no particular desire to sample the cheese and no interest in spending my time on books or movies that tap German mythology. I do have an urge to get my fingers on a Fridolin piano if one appears in my local market. Until that happens, I'll make no judgment about what Schimmel has done with Del's piano.


Geez man, let it rest! You're in an imaginary battle with yourself at this point.

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming [Re: Steve Cohen] #2324040 09/04/14 12:11 PM
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It seems that this thread has garnered a lot of views and a lot of interest, for whatever reason…

Let’s not provoke each other in an effort to get our points across, if we can help it.

Rick


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Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming [Re: turandot] #2324041 09/04/14 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by turandot
There must be a significant percentage of page viewers like me who, with no previous familiarity with the name Fridolin, first read Steve's post connecting it to a piano, and then read the loose references to cheese, hobbits, and dwarfs. It would be interesting to know what image won out in their minds.


Turandot, like you I had no familiarity with the name Fridolin, and no notions of hobbits, cheese, etc. Once the conversation turned humorous, the name Frito Lay came to mind (which I believe was eventually mentioned by someone), and I was hearing the Frito Bandito song in my head for a while (to those unfamiliar, from an old American television commercial back in the '60s and '70s, and sung to the tune Cielito Lindo -- the commercial would certainly be considered too stereotypical today).

Even that connection faded from my mind, but the name does sound uninspiring to me. On the other hand, I'm not searching for a mid-level piano, which (correct me if I'm wrong please) is my understanding of what this is supposed to be.

Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming [Re: Steve Cohen] #2324050 09/04/14 12:50 PM
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Even the biggest of the big sometimes screw up naming products. The classic example is General Motors. They had a car called the Chevy Nova, and surprise, it didn't do well in the Spanish language market. ;-)



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Re: A New Piano Brand is Coming [Re: 88 Fingers Jeff] #2324051 09/04/14 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by 88 Fingers Jeff
I'm not searching for a mid-level piano, which (correct me if I'm wrong please) is my understanding of what this is supposed to be.


Jeff,

It's actually aimed at the so-called entry level, which is pretty crowded already, but Frito Bandito / Cielito Lindo works equally well with any level. smile


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