Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Tuner-Technicians Forum Educating Lucas

Yes, Hakki, as a matter of principal, I stand by what I wrote: I am prepared to go to Wisconsin in January to work on that piano--at no cost to the college--and produce a video for the PW forum. Anyone in the area is welcome to shadow me while I work. But, the main point was: I believe that the sound of the tuning could, in fact, be improved upon by someone with experience in that kind of situation (i.e, without string replacement). Maybe I'm wrong, maybe not: the forum will never know unless I go there and do it.

However, I can't do anything without the necessary contact information and the proper introduction. Without knowing which college, whom to contact, and the right permission, there is nothing that I can do about it. It would have to be a team effort.

The matter seems to have been resolved, so we should probably let it rest for now. It is on my schedule, and January is a long ways away. If the issue were to flare-up again between now and then, I remain willing to go prove the point: professional results are a matter of the right kind of experience, observation, and refinement in approach.

Don't worry Hakki, I'm challenged with nearly every post I write--there will be other opportunities to prove that I exist and that what I write about is real!

Thanks A443.

I will be following and reminding probably by December!!

A443 : it's quite easy to demonstrate that you are not merely someone pretending to be something that some believe you are not. Much like RxD (who doesn't seem to be about lately ... could you perhaps be one and the same ?), simply step out from behind your veil.

Perhaps that seems too easy though, almost as though you prefer the intrigue and associated following.

Your kind offer should be taken up, but I doubt it will ever happen, else your cover would become blown.

Roll on January .... best wishes John

Dear Johnkie, my name demonstrates nothing, to no one--that would be akin to advertising and commercialism. I have no need to advertise myself.

I would rather people learn to think on their own about piano technology issues, and not simply take my word for it--because of who I am. I see people bow down to others because of who they work for, not because of what they are actually saying. That is ridiculous, and ultimately part of the problem (re:someone at Steinway told me to beat on the strings, so it must be a great idea). LOL...no!!!

I can write and I can demonstrate more often (i.e., make more videos). The addition of my name in every post changes nothing. If you don't know who I am, then honestly, you don't need to know.

Just like the rest of the piano-lov'n posters here: I have the right to maintain whatever level of privacy I wish on a open internet forum.

Oh, BTW, I am not RxD. I'm sure the moderators could confirm via IP, and other means, if it is really that important to you. They know exactly who I am, as do a number of other piano industry insiders.

[quote=A443]
Don't worry Hakki, I'm challenged with nearly every post I write--there will be other opportunities to prove that I exist and that what I write about is real![/quote]

I don't think it was ever a question of whether or not "you" exist. Obviously the words don't appear out of thin air. Its more about whether your principles and opinions are actually valid, or just a bunch of hot air. There's usually enough on this forum to make enough air popped popcorn to feed several 3rd world countries.

I'm not sure why you have to go out to the mid-west to prove a point. I think starting by demonstrating in a series of videos all of your different flavors of unison tuning (from dead to tempered) and coloring would be reasonable.

I think trying to take cheap shots at Bill via his young protege is beneath you, however.

Arghhhh! This is enough!!

I am not a tuner, nor a tech, nor a professional pianist.

But that Kawai did not sound professional at all.

Yes there might be reasons that are related to the current situation of the piano itself. I don't know.

But that is what it is at the end of the day. It was not a perfect tuning.

SMHaley, you are hilarious: re:demonstrating what a cheap-shot actually is--which you've demonstrated is something very difficult for you pass-up! Stop trying to be a bully; you're being predictable, and that's boring!

If you truly believe that my comment is a cheap-shot, at either, then you should probably understand right now that my future posts will not be any different (re:"That Tooner is making great progress, but the Kawai grand is not a passable/professional-sounding tuning--that is going to take some more time.").

If you, or anyone else, thinks that the Kawai was a professional sounding tuning, then that says more about you, than it does me. Rehashing this fact accomplishes nothing: let's drop it, and move on.

Hakki, is there such a thing as a "perfect tuning"?

[quote=SMHaley]I think trying to take cheap shots at Bill via his young protege is beneath you, however.[/quote]

Conversely, SMHaley, if A443's comment is nothing more than a cheap shot at Bill, are you endorsing Bill's statement that his protege's tuning was "totally professional sounding" and "a tuning that any professional pianist would accept and use for virtually any recording venue"? (It appears that Bill may have removed this latter wording, as I can't find it right now, but this is what A443 was expressly referring to: see post no. 2321794.) It's not an idle question on my part. I'm genuinely interested in the matter, because I continually measure my own hearing and tunings against what I read, see and hear on these forums and on youtube.

[quote=That Tooner]Hakki, is there such a thing as a "perfect tuning"?[/quote]

Lucas, you are doing really great!!

I really appreciate and congratulate you and Bill Bremmer for what you have achieved in such a short time.

That is really outstanding.

The thread is also awesome and a goldmine.
One of the most valuable threads I have yet to see on this forum.

Yes you are right, "perfect" is not the correct word. Thanks for correcting that. Just interpret it as meaning that the Kawai tuning was not as good as the Yamaha tuning.

I am sure on a second or later tuning you will produce refined results with that Kawai, as Andy has suggested while talking about something "organic" you discover each time you tune a piano.

I wish you the best with your endeavors on such a high skilled profession.

Does anyone remember that was Lucas' FIRST solo tuning by EAR?

And, Papa Bill has every right to be the gloating father !!!

(sorry about the caps - the text enhancements aren't working - I would have used bold or italics.)

They just fixed it.

Marty,

My son is 5 years old, I'll be the first to admit to subjectivity in a gloating Papa. (Heck, after seeing me tune 2 or 3 times, he's telling me which unisons on my piano are out of tune when I play...)

No-one, least of all A443, is disputing that Lukas is making fantastic progress.

But that wasn't what sparked the confrontation, as I'm sure you will remember. It matters not whether it was Lukas's first, tenth, hundredth of thousandth tuning. If Bill described it as professional-sounding and suitable for most any recording venue, and someone like A443 queried this, then it's the tuning that's at issue - not the tuner.

Yes? No?

From time to time we come across people who take to tuning pianos in all it's aspects immediately. Some with guidance, others entirely self taught. I have come across 2-3 in my 50 years in the business. Possibly more than my fair share.
I cannot claim to have "taught" any of them other than giving or finding them employment and experience and pointing them in the direction of colleagues who can give them what they need next and how to specifically tune for different employers.

While none of their first tunings were worthy of concert hall or recording studio, I have known one in particular who was doing fine concert and international broadcasting work for major artists within a few months of first touching a tuning lever.

Should Lucas choose to pursue a career in tuning, the whole world is open to him. There will always be room at the top.

Hakki, you are probably the last person who should be commenting on what a Kawai should sound like. Since it seems you have missed the point let me remind you. It was about the ability of a young man just starting to learn how to tune aurally and doing a commendable job. A great deal better than what you have demonstrated to this forum I will add.

A443, I have become quite convinced that really your purpose here is nothing more than to be adversarial, contentious, and you just like "hearing" yourself talk. So rather than bragging about your cosmic abilities and how you could have done better, why not offer something of use to the young man, who I will bet, has more potential ability at his age then you did. He's not yet ready for full concert prep, and I think Bill knows that. But for some reason you only seem to be about one thing, revealing a certain deficiency in your abilities as well.

You always gloat about how you want to teach people these "secrets" you've picked up, but when the opportunity to make such a profound impact is staring you in the face the most you can do is try to chop down the kid's mentor. In my view it makes you a poor instructor.

SMHaley, why do you insist on making things so personal?

Hakki wrote: "I am not a tuner, nor a tech, nor a professional pianist." And you attack with: "It was about the ability of a young man just starting to learn how to tune aurally and doing a commendable job. A great deal better than what you have demonstrated to this forum I will add." Why would you write something like that?!? You are being insulting, and purposefully misrepresenting the issue. Please, demonstrate some humanity.

NONE of this has ever been about a young man doing a commendable job; a "commendable job" is not the issue. His first solo tuning of a grand was described as professional-sounding and suitable for most any recording venue. <----that is the one and only issue that I, and a few others, took issue with.

The issues was with the characterisation of the tuning; it has nothing to do with the tuner, nor his teacher. Did you bother to read Mark R. post above?

Perhaps it is time to drop this entirely, and let Bill Bremmer RPT go on doing his thing? The point has been well made, documented, and defended.

...[moving on].

A443, ENOUGH!

How, exactly, has the "the kid's" mentor been chopped down? Please quote any comment, from anyone, that might even possibly suggest something like that.

On what basis do you have to critique my instructing? You have nothing to base that comment on. Right? Have you enrolled in any of my university courses, attended any of my lectures, taken any private lessons with me, or worked as one of my assistants before? Do you know ANYTHING about my approach to teaching or my methodology? If not, then you've overstep the boundaries of common decency, in another failed attempt to take another cheap-shot; please, keep yourself in-check.

Everyone has repeatedly said that both That Tooner and Bill Bremmer RPT are doing an excellent job. The Kawai tuning, however, did not represent a professional sounding tuning--that will come with more time and experience.