Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Tuner-Technicians Forum An aural and visual demonstration of the Skeleton.

Yes, I have also read that.

It is unacceptable, from an RPT, to speak like he did about another RPT.

I don't know why Mark was banned, but I am sure the tech he refers to had nothing to do with it.

I wonder if the PTG can do something about that.

After all they have a Code of Ethics.

Here it is:

From

PTG web site

See point 22

22. What do I do if I have a complaint about a member’s business practices? Members are expected to follow the Code of Ethics and Code of Professional Conduct. They are what make the PTG a respected leader in the industry. On the rare occasion that a member acts in an unprofessional manner, PTG does have a disciplinary process in place. (See the Disciplinary Code in the PTG Bylaws for more information.)

I've read the Disciplinary Code.

Section D – Members’ Rights Committee Procedures
The following is the form by which proceedings are initiated:
1. A member, group of members or chapter of the Piano Technicians Guild may submit a formal written complaint of professional misconduct to the Chairman of the Members’ Rights Committee, and to the accused.

Herr Weiss,

Can you provide the exact link to the sentence you quoted from him?
I read his "I've been banned" blog entry but could not find that statement.

Mark Cerisano has removed this statement. I have read it earlier, when Herr Weiss made the comment, but it is not there anymore.

It is pathetic to see someone taking a step back in his words and actions, by deleting his post and blogs without apologizing, without having the courage to recognize what he did and assume his responsabilities.

The less we expect from a professional is ethics and honor.

IMO, Mark Cerisano shouldn't be RPT. It's not only a matter of knowledge and competence, professionalism and ethics are also required.

I have no idea what is going on here...

Gadzar et al., what is your objective? Do you want to stop Mark Cerisano RPT from teaching online? Are you trying to ensure his future students know that he is a fraud? Are you trying to break his resolve? I don't understand. This all seem so personal. There a long history of this back-and-forth. What gives?

Who is the expert teacher that spends most of his time bashing people who don't agree with his ideas?

If this is not a personal attack, then what exactly are the professional issues that ya'll have with him? Why all the writing about the PTG and ethics? He looks to be conducting online tuning tutoring secessions. Is that what you object to?!? I really do not understand.

Ya'll realise he can teach whatever and however he wants, right? If he believed it was advantageous to play the notes with the feet, so that one had two hands to move the mutes and tune the string, then there is nothing stopping him from doing that.

A443,

Please ask Mark Cerisano! He knows what is happening and who I am talking about.

Ask him why he deleted his last post here.

Ask him why he deleted his referral to a "nameless tech" in the "I've been banned" section of his web site.

He has the answers for all your questions.

Gadzar, you want me to ask Mark Cerisano, RPT why YOU, et al., seem to be so harsh towards him?!? I've been reading this back-and-forth hostility over numerous threads; it never seems to come to a rest. Perhaps you are justified, I don't know...I don't understand what this is all about.

What exactly do you want from him? You seem not to be happy that he exists...do you really want him to change THAT!?!

I agree that the constant self-promotion is irritating and distracting. Moreover, I think that it is simply not necessary. The fact that he is publicly visible and writing on forums like this, ensures that people will seek him out. I don't believe any additional self-promotion will result in any more students. Commercialism is not attractive, especially in an artistic endeavour. In fact, I think it is counterproductive to what he is trying to achieve. But that is just me, and what I think. Mark Cerisano, RPT must make his own choices.

For the health and betterment of the piano industry, I want to see Mark Cerisano, RPT continue making videos and posting them online for people to learn (i.e., for free). If he also wants to conduct live tuning tutorials for a fee, that's cool too...

If it is a professional issue, I've failed to identify it. Would you mind please helping me understand? I don't do what Mark Cerisano, RPT does (i.e., I would do it differently), but that doesn't mean I can't see the benefits of what he is doing.

I have no hidden agenda. I have said here all I had to say. There is nothing more to look for. If you want to know what is happening all you have to do is to read this thread and the A4 thread.

If, and when, I have something to say about you or to you, I do it in front of you and directly to you!

I have never written nothing about you or anyone else in my web site, which is destined to buy and sell pianos and to get pianos to tune, repair, regulate and move. I will never put there something about you or any other poster of PW.

I never post something I do not believe in! I have never posted one thing in a thread and then the contrary in another thread.

When I've been proven wrong, I have accepted it and I have apologized.

My sense of honor and ethics is greater than my ego.

If I say I agree or not with something, it's because I agree or disagree and not because of trying to seduce customers.

I've never PM'd someone to enroll him in my privated businesses.

You will never see me denying what I have previously said.

If I post a video here, I accept the critics as they come and try to learn from my fails.

That's who I am.

I hope this clears your doubts.

Just for fun I computed the theoretical error in setting C#4 based on tuning a perfect geometric progression of beatrates F3A3C#4F4, with F3 guessed, which is the "lower skeleton" part of Mark's method.

Below a plot of the error in C#4 as a function of the bps of F3A3. Interestingly it is always flat, and the error remains below 1 cent when F3A3 is between 4 and 10 bps.


Kees

Thanks Kees. When you say geometric, are you creating 7,8,9 type relationships, preserving the arithmetic difference? Because I've said a few times already that I'm convinced that this type of relationship would not be the goal. For the human ear, 8 to 9 sounds closer than 7 to 8 so the sensitive tuner would more likely tune something like 7, <8, >9, and hear it as evenly changing. Does that lower the error?

I like how you confirm what else I said, namely my far off F3 on purpose created more uncertainty in C#4 due to trying to hear fast beats at the bottom or the top, depending on which way F3 was off. An insight into perhaps why Jack Stebbins uses beat matching to set F3; no arbitrarily fast beats.

Is the zero error created when all the speeds are equal? That would make sense since the arithmetic and logarithmic differences are the same at zero. And it looks like that is occurring slightly above 7. Isn't 6.9bps the theoretical for F3A3 in ET? That would make sense.

Mark, geometric progression means that the beat rate ratio of A3C#4 and F3A3 is the same as the beat rate ratio of C#4F4 and A3C#4 and the same as the beat rate ratio of F4A4 and C#4F4.
Zero error when F3A3=6.9, look closer.

Kees

Here is a plot of the beat rates also, as a function of where you set F3.



Kees

Kees, so a larger error of F3 causes a smaller error in C#4 in the lower skeleton with fixed A3-A4 and F3-F4 octaves. Therefore, shouldn't the same effect happen with the F4 if the upper skeleton is treated the same, and thus further refinement of the sequence? Then, re-iterate the lower skeleton with a refined F3-F4 position as a means to converge towards the CM3 goal?

Right, that's how I learned it from Bill Bremmers webpage.
First guess F3A3, then find C#4 to make the M3's progressive,
and if after setting C#4 you find F4A4 doesn't fit adjust F3/4, and often that's it, unless F3/4 was off too much to begin with, then C#4 needs another iteration etc.

Main practical difficulty (at least for me) is judging that the M3's are in fact geometrically progressing, and esp. F4A4 is difficult to judge as it beats so fast.

Kees

Wowwww Kees!! You said it so clear! And with so few words!

Cheers!

So maintaining ratios is not accurate. I will create a skeleton, making the speed differences equal as far as my ear can tell, and measure them in Audacity. We will see what it is. What is the correct ratio? Log? What base? Are you considering iH?

Maintaining ratios?