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Re: Kawai VPC1: a 3D model for any DIY purposes [Re: David-san] #2283612
05/31/14 04:01 AM
05/31/14 04:01 AM
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Hamamatsu, Japan
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Ah, sorry about that.

It's fixed now - thank you.

James
x



Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
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Re: Kawai VPC1: a 3D model for any DIY purposes [Re: David-san] #2284038
06/01/14 05:48 AM
06/01/14 05:48 AM
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David-san Offline OP
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It is quite rare to have a music rest on a master keyboard. The VPC1 has a tiny one, that's nice, but I am used to build custom music rests that better satisfy my needs. For the VPC1, I think of a grand-like music rest. This is my first idea:

[Linked Image]

It is very large, but I don't think it is oversized for the VPC1. Well, I think I'm starting to like the idea...


Keyboardist and singer
Re: Kawai VPC1: a 3D model for any DIY purposes [Re: David-san] #2284056
06/01/14 07:11 AM
06/01/14 07:11 AM
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Originally Posted by David-san
It is quite rare to have a music rest on a master keyboard. The VPC1 has a tiny one, that's nice, but I am used to build custom music rests that better satisfy my needs. For the VPC1, I think of a grand-like music rest. This is my first idea:

[Linked Image]

It is very large, but I don't think it is oversized for the VPC1. Well, I think I'm starting to like the idea...


Looks great! I'd love to have one for my MP11. Currently, I'm using a long piece of cardboard that just sits on top of the current music rest.

If you are altering the music rest, may I make a suggestion? On the current VPC1 and MP11 music desk, it is made from metal. The bottom part where the music sits has a portion on the front that is bent and comes up. The angle is slight, but when playing from a book it inevitably bends/rips the bottom of each page when turning. I get that this is there to prevent the book from sliding forward, but there are other ways of doing this that won't ruin the music.

What many grand pianos have is felt or some rubbery foam on the bottom that allows pages and books to stay put and not slide, but doesn't cause issues when you have to turn pages. There is also no lip at the edge.


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Re: Kawai VPC1: a 3D model for any DIY purposes [Re: Morodiene] #2284076
06/01/14 08:48 AM
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Thanks for your suggestions, I will take them into account for the final design.


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Re: Kawai VPC1: a 3D model for any DIY purposes [Re: Morodiene] #2284081
06/01/14 09:03 AM
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Quote
The angle is slight, but when playing from a book it inevitably bends/rips the bottom of each page when turning

+1 to Morodiene again.
The same is valid for the metal music stand that comes with the MP7. I ripped apart one sheet of a valued old music book on the first page turn, only then I noticed the little notch at the base of the note stand ...

Re: Kawai VPC1: a 3D model for any DIY purposes [Re: David-san] #2284086
06/01/14 09:34 AM
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Quote
If you are altering the music rest, may I make a suggestion? On the current VPC1 and MP11 music desk, it is made from metal. The bottom part where the music sits has a portion on the front that is bent and comes up. The angle is slight, but when playing from...


Speaking of altering angles, may I also suggest you fix it so the music rest is more perpendicular instead of angling back away from the VCP1. I find it to be set back a little further than most piano rests, making it a little more difficult to read the music. If you use the rubberized grips that Morodiene suggests, then you could have it at more of right angle without having the music fall off. Or perhaps some cantiliever effect that projected the stand a little over the VCP1 without changing the angle would be a better solution.

Re: Kawai VPC1: a 3D model for any DIY purposes [Re: Starr Keys] #2284150
06/01/14 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Starr Keys
Quote
If you are altering the music rest, may I make a suggestion? On the current VPC1 and MP11 music desk, it is made from metal. The bottom part where the music sits has a portion on the front that is bent and comes up. The angle is slight, but when playing from...


Speaking of altering angles, may I also suggest you fix it so the music rest is more perpendicular instead of angling back away from the VCP1. I find it to be set back a little further than most piano rests, making it a little more difficult to read the music. If you use the rubberized grips that Morodiene suggests, then you could have it at more of right angle without having the music fall off. Or perhaps some cantiliever effect that projected the stand a little over the VCP1 without changing the angle would be a better solution.


Taking the cue from grand pianos, they are always adjustable, which is great to suit the height and distance needed for the pianist. So ideally, this music desk would be on sliders where you could bring the music closer or farther away, and also adjustable for different angles.

Last edited by Morodiene; 06/01/14 12:52 PM.

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Re: Kawai VPC1: a 3D model for any DIY purposes [Re: Morodiene] #2284287
06/01/14 04:54 PM
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You set the bar very high! As my personal grand piano is a Kawai VPC1 crazy I don't know how a grand piano music rack is built. If I remember well, it is based on sliding parts. If you can post some pictures of yours, I would appreciate.


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Re: Kawai VPC1: a 3D model for any DIY purposes [Re: David-san] #2284300
06/01/14 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by David-san
You set the bar very high! As my personal grand piano is a Kawai VPC1 crazy I don't know how a grand piano music rack is built. If I remember well, it is based on sliding parts. If you can post some pictures of yours, I would appreciate.


Alas, I will not be near mine for another 3-4 months! I'm sure you can look up online to see pictures of how they are done and get the idea though.


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Re: Kawai VPC1: a 3D model for any DIY purposes [Re: David-san] #2284328
06/01/14 07:10 PM
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Very cool project. wink

James
x


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Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
Re: Kawai VPC1: a 3D model for any DIY purposes [Re: Morodiene] #2284410
06/02/14 12:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Morodiene
Alas, I will not be near mine for another 3-4 months!

I would like to be on tour too... sniff... frown

Originally Posted by Morodiene
I'm sure you can look up online to see pictures of how they are done and get the idea though.

Well, it seems that in this case Google was not my friend... frown



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Re: Kawai VPC1: a 3D model for any DIY purposes [Re: David-san] #2289747
06/14/14 04:44 PM
06/14/14 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by David-san
Hello James,

I also wanted to try to have the support of the Kawai guy I had contacted by email and who had given me his help to make the Kawai USB-MIDI drivers run under Windows 8.1. But, I just checked, and as it is a certain James M. B.


Please help! I just spent hours trying to get Ivory II (American Concert D) to see the Kawai USB MIDI driver in Windows 8.1, and it's not working at all. I'm very knowledgeable about drivers and anything PC/DAW, but we are stumped here. We installed the 64bit driver for our 64bit Windows 8.1 OS, on an ASUS G750, then plugged the USB host cable from the VPC1 to a USB port on my system (I have tried all of the ports). Under Device Manager, we observe the appearance of the Kawai USB MIDI driver upon powering on the VPC1. The behavior is the same whether using the DC power adapter or power via USB. At this point it looks like the driver is ready.

We then begin a test by opening Ivory Cantabile and configuring the Midi settings. We see right away that there is a Kawai MIDI input and output. The one we desire for triggering (output) shows the label "(disconnected)" next to it. As a test we choose it and also the input option (just in case there is translation confusion between languages/standards, and neither Kawai USB driver option allows MIDI signal data to be reveived in Cantabile's status window. Clicking on the piano keys via left mouse button does trigger Ivory's sounds. We have unplugged the VPC1 in various orders (Windows 8.1 machine on first with and without VPC1 connected... no luck, then VPC1 on and connected for a minute first before turning on the PC... same MIDI driver behavior but no triggering within Cantabile...)

I've used Windows 7 Ultimate and Ivory II with M-Audio Axiom controllers and also an Alesis with no issues. How do I get the "(disconnected)" status to go away, and to make this Kawai controller work within 8.1? If there has been correspondence regarding any workarounds with the VPC1 and Win 8.1, why aren't they discussed here in the forum and also in the manual? The manual offers very little assistance here.

We tried the VPC Editor utility to sync up to the VPC1 while Device Manager saw the Kawai USB MIDI driver, and the status "Failed" was returned at the blue splash screen. If there is a driver supporting Windows 8.1, where is it?

James, can you help?

Edit: I apologize for putting my off-topic first post here, but please understand that nowhere else in the forum would "windows 8.1 vpc1" return relevant results other than here. In my defense, David-san nailed my issue on the head here in this thread, so rather than I start a new thread and possibly receive less help, I felt continuing the discussion was appropriate. Mods, if you feel this issue warrants a new thread, by all means create one with the thread title "VPC1 incompatibility issue with Windows 8.1".

Last edited by rezonance; 06/14/14 05:02 PM.
Re: Kawai VPC1: a 3D model for any DIY purposes [Re: rezonance] #2289764
06/14/14 05:24 PM
06/14/14 05:24 PM
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This link will perhaps change your live :

http://plugable.com/2012/12/01/windows-8-and-intel-usb-3-0-host-controllers

It worked for me under Windows 8.1 with Ivory Cantabile and also with the VPC Editor.






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Re: Kawai VPC1: a 3D model for any DIY purposes [Re: David-san] #2289781
06/14/14 06:08 PM
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Thanks for the reply. Oh what a headache smirk Does this mean USB 3.0 ports would then be downgraded to 2.0 speeds? The last response in that link above has a person with the same system as me! The link to the 1.0.6.245 USB 3.0 eXtensible Host Controller Driver goes to a missing page. It looks like Intel pulled it? I've looked elsewhere and still am not finding it, but I'm a patient person and will keep searching. From what it appears so far, VPC1 driver doesn't like the Windows 8.1 USB 3.0 driver that comes with the OS. Is that an accurate assumption?

EDIT: I currently have Driver Version 6.3.9600.17031 (2/21/2014) for the USB 3.0 eXtensible Host driver. Windows determined it's the latest driver available, so I take it that the importance of the old 1.0.6.245 is going to hopefully get the VPC1 to work on my Asus G750. Is that solution what Kawai had recommended? I'm extremely hesitant in installing win 7 drivers as a hackable workaround. Has Kawai not made drivers for Windows 8 yet? I am reading reports of unresponsive USB ports after such replacement of the eXtensible Host controller driver with an older one. To add to the frustration, Intel seems to have removed access to the win7 driver, and I also use the USB 3.0 speeds for other purposes (huge video files) and don't have an extra win7 machine just for my VPC1. Surely we can't be the only two people with 8.1 and this controller, or are we?!? I seem to always be a guinea pig with technology when I shell out more money for something better. Now I have two screaming kids to tend to. Kawai, if you're listening, maybe help us consumers out and provide the working drivers so we can get back to creativity. The iLok process with Ivory II was already penalizing, we don't need more headache.

I have one old tablet pc with win7, but it has slow drives, a bad battery, little memory, and no DVD drive to install the 7 Ivory discs. I've got no external drive for thr discs. That screen on the win7 tablet is too bad on my eyes, so I need to make this particular VPC1 setup work on this Asus G750, the best notebook ever made (in our experience). Kawai, if you could provide a working USB driver that retains 3.0-speeds, it would be lovely.

Sometimes Canatible shows the drivers from Kawai in the list without the "disconnected" status, but it makes no difference. No MIDI data is being seen from the driver/VPC1.

Last edited by rezonance; 06/14/14 07:09 PM.
Re: Kawai VPC1: a 3D model for any DIY purposes [Re: David-san] #2289809
06/14/14 07:16 PM
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Ok, fixed! I went to device manager and right clicked to update driver, and I told it to browse my pc for another driver instead of the one supplied by Kawai. Now instead the driver under device manager shows "USB-MIDI" without the "Kawai" label. I pressed keys and holy cow, I see MIDI data in Cantabile as well as hear it! I want to say that I did try the generic "USB MIDI Audio" driver initially before installing Kawai's own driver, but it didn't work before. Now all of a sudden it works. Weird.

Re: Kawai VPC1: a 3D model for any DIY purposes [Re: David-san] #2289825
06/14/14 07:43 PM
06/14/14 07:43 PM
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rezonance, as you have found, there appears to be some incompatibility with Windows 8/8.1 and some USB 3.0 chipsets. One solution is to use an older driver, as linked in David-san's post.

Note that the Kawai USB-MIDI driver is only required if you wish to use the VPC Editor software. If you do not intend to make adjustments to touch curves or change other VPC1 settings, uninstalling the Kawai driver and reverting back to the built-in Windows USB-MIDI driver should allow Cantabile to function with the VPC1.

We are currently working on a work-around that allows the VPC Editor software to function with the built-in Windows USB-MIDI driver. Unfortunately, due to limitations with the built-in driver (which are solved with the Kawai driver), it will not be possible to use the VPC Editor and another MIDI tool (such as Cantabile) simultaneously.

Kind regards,
James
x

EDIT: Just saw that you were able to revert back to the built-in Windows driver.


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
Re: Kawai VPC1: a 3D model for any DIY purposes [Re: David-san] #2289843
06/14/14 09:00 PM
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Interestingly that built-in driver didn't work until after installing the Kawai drivers. I don't see a need to mess with the VPC Editor just yet. Preset 2 (Ivory) is amazing and I couldn't ask for more.

I have other 8.1 systems to install my setup on, so I will try to find the reason the built-in driver doesn't work right away. Even after restarts and various power-on sequences, nothing worked. I am shocked that going back to that Windows driver after the Kawai one somehow woke things up. The manual had me thinking that I should install the Kawai version right away for better stability, but perhaps for 8.1 users the manual could have a special instruction to only use the built-in one. 90% of this industry is troubleshooting as you know, so the speed bumls are expected. smile

Re: Kawai VPC1: a 3D model for any DIY purposes [Re: David-san] #2289858
06/14/14 10:37 PM
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I'm not sure why the built-in Windows driver didn't work initially - that's the first time I've heard such a report.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
Re: Kawai VPC1: a 3D model for any DIY purposes [Re: rezonance] #2289983
06/15/14 04:08 AM
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Originally Posted by rezonance
Interestingly that built-in driver didn't work until after installing the Kawai drivers.


There is another issue with USB devices on USB 3 port in Windows 8.1.

See
http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/...-81/8c168bf9-725b-494e-b407-72372cc2eb9e
and
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/usbcoreblog...ut-fail-on-windows-8-1-with-code-43.aspx,
if you want to investigate more.

As the fix is based on a register modification related to the VID/PID/REV ID, if the Kawai USB MIDI driver installer do it during installation, it applies then to any other driver used for this device.

Now both the standard and the Kawai USB MIDI driver work fine for me.

You will soon need the VPC Editor to access the new amazing VPC1 "auto power : always on" option. wink


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Re: Kawai VPC1: a 3D model for any DIY purposes [Re: David-san] #2301059
07/11/14 09:46 AM
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Can you elaborate on the auto-on power?

Could USB3 issues be addressed by a driver maker (Kawai) so that customers don't have to make changes on their end? I've spent a great deal of time trying to do workarounds with USB3 to work with certain drivers, and some people don't want to downgrade to USB2 speeds. Is Intel working to fix compatibility problems for USB?

Last edited by rezonance; 07/11/14 09:46 AM.
Re: Kawai VPC1: a 3D model for any DIY purposes [Re: rezonance] #2301163
07/11/14 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by rezonance
Can you elaborate on the auto-on power?

I use a computer without screen running a VST piano on Ivory Cantabile. If, for any reason, the VPC1 is switched off, then Cantabile looses the USB-MIDI connection and there is no way to recover it without screen and mouse. If the VPC1 is turned on when powered and cannot be switched off (or can only be switched off after pressing the button for a very long time, say 10s), the problem is solved! If this behavior is activated through an "auto-power : always on" option in the VPC Editor, it won't disturb people that don't need this.

It is really not a big deal for a developer, but well, I think I am dreaming awake... I don't know if Kawai James did plead my case with the Kawai developers...


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Re: Kawai VPC1: a 3D model for any DIY purposes [Re: David-san] #2301173
07/11/14 02:10 PM
07/11/14 02:10 PM
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I had the same problem with my Clavinova. So I dropped the USB connection and I use MIDI instead. No more problems.

Does the VPC1 have MIDI? Or only USB?

Re: Kawai VPC1: a 3D model for any DIY purposes [Re: David-san] #2301178
07/11/14 02:31 PM
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MacMacMac, It has midi in and out, as well as USB.


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Re: Kawai VPC1: a 3D model for any DIY purposes [Re: David-san] #2320617
08/27/14 10:18 AM
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I know I'm a bit late to this party but I also want a different music rest. I designed this one to be printed and finished with highgloss black using the anchors that already exist for the VPC-1

[Linked Image]

Re: Kawai VPC1: a 3D model for any DIY purposes [Re: ethananim] #2320741
08/27/14 03:40 PM
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Very interesting design!

Why don't you use my 3D model of the VPC1 to show us how it would look like on it ?

David-san


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Re: Kawai VPC1: a 3D model for any DIY purposes [Re: ethananim] #2320824
08/27/14 07:21 PM
08/27/14 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by ethananim
I know I'm a bit late to this party but I also want a different music rest. I designed this one to be printed and finished with highgloss black using the anchors that already exist for the VPC-1


Very interest, and great use of 3D printing too!

I look forward to seeing the finished project.

Cheers,
James
x


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Re: Kawai VPC1: a 3D model for any DIY purposes [Re: David-san] #2321336
08/28/14 10:38 PM
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David. I'm taking your advice and making proper Vis with your model. Please accept my gratitude because your model is very well done indeed. I work with 3d data as an artist for a living and not only is your model accurate it is also very clean. Much appreciation.

Re: Kawai VPC1: a 3D model for any DIY purposes [Re: David-san] #2321373
08/28/14 11:59 PM
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ethananim Offline
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ethananim  Offline
Junior Member
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 12
[Linked Image]

Sorry for the rush job. 3 hours between work and sleep while watching over my new boy! Hope you like. Thanks again for the model. I have the K&M Omega for my VPC-1 so the model is very relevant to me.

K. James - You guys did a great job on the VPC.

Re: Kawai VPC1: a 3D model for any DIY purposes [Re: ethananim] #2321453
08/29/14 07:20 AM
08/29/14 07:20 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 225
Ohio
EmptySpace Offline
Full Member
EmptySpace  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 225
Ohio
That looks awesome.


I'm a masochist. I play the piano for pleasure.
Re: Kawai VPC1: a 3D model for any DIY purposes [Re: David-san] #2321505
08/29/14 10:04 AM
08/29/14 10:04 AM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 73
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Rappy Offline
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Rappy  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 73
Not my taste at all, but I appreciate the work. How did you/ will you print this? What software do you use and what printer? Do you own the printer or just send someone a file? This is a great tech.

Edit: Also the same question goes to the OP who made the laptop rests. These are terrific looking. How did you make them?

Thanks

Last edited by Rappy; 08/29/14 10:07 AM.
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