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Self Chat
#2320097 08/26/14 07:57 AM
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I'm very familiar with the inner game books but does self chat, whether positive or negitive, make any difference? apart from the distraction? That part of the brain is after all very much the newcomer in evolutionary terms.

Re: Self Chat
chopin_r_us #2320126 08/26/14 09:24 AM
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I think it does. Your brain directs so much else that happens in your body - hormone releases, other chemicals, muscle tensions. All of them get to be a habit, and learning to recognize the "voices in your head" and re-directing them helps in also letting go of tension, knotted stomachs, whatever those old responses are. I don't do the "affirmations" route, but I do try to recognize what is old "stuff" that I learned for whatever reason and see where it fits with the current stuff, and to reassess it for a more current/realistic perspective. It's an ongoing process, and better than mindless reactions, IMO.

Cathy


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Perhaps "more music" is always the answer, no matter what the question might be! - Qwerty53
Re: Self Chat
chopin_r_us #2320130 08/26/14 09:29 AM
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To me it makes a huge difference.

There was a rather wretched time in my life where I realized that my self-chatter was so nasty that I would never speak to anyone like that, and I certainly wouldn't speak like that to someone I cared about. I started to edit all my self talk to pretend that I was talking to my closest friend. It has been a wonderful change.


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Re: Self Chat
chopin_r_us #2320178 08/26/14 11:02 AM
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I'm nearly convinced already! Doesn't tool making maybe pre-date self chat? In which case a recent ancestor did without just fine.

Re: Self Chat
chopin_r_us #2320205 08/26/14 12:14 PM
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"inner game books"? "tool making"? "self chat"? What are we talking about here, and how does it relate to piano performance?

Regards,


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Re: Self Chat
chopin_r_us #2320207 08/26/14 12:23 PM
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I believe I'm in touch with my inner karma - at least, that's what those monks in Tengboche monastery blowing their long Tibetan horns told me last time I was there - so I'm at peace with myself.

Peace, man. thumb


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
Re: Self Chat
chopin_r_us #2320213 08/26/14 12:38 PM
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I've made use of recalling during my performances what my professor told me about not thinking about previous mistakes. It was in his voice instead of mine too.


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Re: Self Chat
Arghhh #2320222 08/26/14 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Arghhh
I've made use of recalling during my performances what my professor told me about not thinking about previous mistakes. It was in his voice instead of mine too.
Did he/she say anything about not recalling what you were told about not thinking about previous mistakes - esp during performances?

Re: Self Chat
malkin #2320250 08/26/14 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by malkin
To me it makes a huge difference.

There was a rather wretched time in my life where I realized that my self-chatter was so nasty that I would never speak to anyone like that, and I certainly wouldn't speak like that to someone I cared about. I started to edit all my self talk to pretend that I was talking to my closest friend. It has been a wonderful change.

Nice


Poetry is rhythm
Re: Self Chat
chopin_r_us #2320322 08/26/14 06:17 PM
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A long time ago, the way I heard it described was as inner or interior monologue (or dialogue, if it was with an imagined other person). I've also heard it called "the inner critic", at least in its more negative role. And then there's "monkey mind", too. "Self chat" is a new one on me.

Whatever it is called, it makes a huge difference, I think, both in general ways and in very specific ways.

A specific example: if I am playing something, and my self chat pops up with "Here comes that spot that I always mess up", then the chances of messing that spot up are increased by some astronomical amount. But if my self chat says something like "Here comes that spot I've worked on and I just might get through it unscathed this time", it opens up the possibility that I could do that. Better yet, I love it when self chat says "Here comes that spot I used to mess up; it's amazing how I can sail through it now without any trouble".

Naturally, positive self chat needs to have a healthy connection to reality. If it's a total lie, it won't work. Well, not usually, anyway. smile

The point, for me, is to avoid self chat that can undermine what I do, and try to promote self chat that helps me along. In my experience, it can make a difference, and exercising some control over it is worth the effort it takes. Learning how to find the source of it and how to turn it off at will seems like an even better idea, but doing that is pretty difficult for me (maybe I should tell myself it is easy!).


Re: Self Chat
chopin_r_us #2320325 08/26/14 06:22 PM
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Whatever it is you're talking about doesn't actually exist.

You'll find more benefit and more ease by acknowledging the material deficiencies in cognition that you are experiencing and taking the appropriate steps to correct them. Barring true deficiencies that fall short of some expected mean, all you are talking about is the process of learning, which is still better understood and leveraged using material approaches.

Last edited by Atrys; 08/26/14 06:22 PM.

"A good intention but fixed and resolute - bent on high and holy ends, we shall find means to them on every side and at every moment; and even obstacles and opposition will but make us 'like the fabled specter-ships,' which sail the fastest in the very teeth of the wind."
R. W. Emerson
Re: Self Chat
chopin_r_us #2320343 08/26/14 07:41 PM
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The entire human organism is simply a very complex DNA replication system, too. Should I stop pretending that my sense of self really exists, as well? wink

Re: Self Chat
Atrys #2320363 08/26/14 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Atrys
Whatever it is you're talking about doesn't actually exist.

You'll find more benefit and more ease by acknowledging the material deficiencies in cognition that you are experiencing and taking the appropriate steps to correct them. Barring true deficiencies that fall short of some expected mean, all you are talking about is the process of learning, which is still better understood and leveraged using material approaches.


Can you illustrate your position with an example?


Professional pianist and piano teacher.
Re: Self Chat
chopin_r_us #2320364 08/26/14 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted by chopin_r_us
Originally Posted by Arghhh
I've made use of recalling during my performances what my professor told me about not thinking about previous mistakes. It was in his voice instead of mine too.
Did he/she say anything about not recalling what you were told about not thinking about previous mistakes - esp during performances?


I got lost in your question! Does this answer it? On many cases in my lesson while I was playing a piece he would remind me to stay present in the piece instead of revisiting what already happened while playing.


Professional pianist and piano teacher.
Re: Self Chat
BruceD #2320380 08/26/14 08:58 PM
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Originally Posted by BruceD
"inner game books"? "tool making"? "self chat"? What are we talking about here, and how does it relate to piano performance?

I'm with Bruce.

(Boy, are we out of it....) ha

Re: Self Chat
chopin_r_us #2320414 08/26/14 10:22 PM
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The kids these days!

Re: Self Chat
Mark_C #2320439 08/26/14 11:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Mark_C
Originally Posted by BruceD
"inner game books"? "tool making"? "self chat"? What are we talking about here, and how does it relate to piano performance?

I'm with Bruce.

(Boy, are we out of it....) ha


I'm with wr. I am definitely not with Atrys. He is *really* out of it! crazy


I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.
Re: Self Chat
Cinnamonbear #2320457 08/27/14 12:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Cinnamonbear
Originally Posted by Mark_C
Originally Posted by BruceD
"inner game books"? "tool making"? "self chat"? What are we talking about here, and how does it relate to piano performance?

I'm with Bruce.

(Boy, are we out of it....) ha


I'm with wr. I am definitely not with Atrys. He is *really* out of it! crazy

No need to single people out with insults if you disagree with them. We're here to have a good conversation, not insult each other. For a reference that is older than the inner game books, what did Thumper's mother say?


Poetry is rhythm
Re: Self Chat
Arghhh #2320465 08/27/14 01:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Arghhh

Can you illustrate your position with an example?

Sure; for instance, if one identifies or otherwise becomes aware of deficiencies in cognition, which of course can manifest in many different ways and by many different root causes, the person could undergo evaluation to determine the appropriate corrective steps. Whatever the corrective prescription is (medicine, science-based meditation, exercise, OTC supplementation [yes, this is a real cause in some cases], etc), what is being addressed is entirely material: understanding the science of why this is happening and how to best correct it is much more effective than inventing fictional dichotomies of the mind.

You know something is wrong with the education system when former students are more attracted to spiritual woo-woo as a means of corrective facility instead of looking toward the science.


"A good intention but fixed and resolute - bent on high and holy ends, we shall find means to them on every side and at every moment; and even obstacles and opposition will but make us 'like the fabled specter-ships,' which sail the fastest in the very teeth of the wind."
R. W. Emerson
Re: Self Chat
Arghhh #2320502 08/27/14 05:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Arghhh
Originally Posted by chopin_r_us
Originally Posted by Arghhh
I've made use of recalling during my performances what my professor told me about not thinking about previous mistakes. It was in his voice instead of mine too.
Did he/she say anything about not recalling what you were told about not thinking about previous mistakes - esp during performances?


I got lost in your question! Does this answer it? On many cases in my lesson while I was playing a piece he would remind me to stay present in the piece instead of revisiting what already happened while playing.
That makes sense but revisiting, or not as the case may be, doesn't need to be verbal.

Many of the ideas that have surfaced in this thread work equally well and with less distraction below a verbal level. In terms of woo woo - quieting self chat is only quieting the mind on a very superficial level but on that level there may be dividends. That, of course, needs to be put against the possible benefit of positive chat.

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