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"Lullaby" is coming along nicely. Just starting to put hands together on it. I was looking forward to getting out of the 3/4 time pieces, but I'm actually enjoying this one, so I'll probably work on it more than I did on the last couple of waltz-style songs.

Mike: I know what you're talking about. Sometimes I end up highlighting and/or marking up a piece I'm working on. Some people make copies and mark up the copies instead. Then once they've got a decent handle on it they put the marked copy aside and continue working/polishing from the original.

Linda - Lullaby is an early "keeper" for me. It will probably be replaced in time but a nice song to start a repertoire at my stage. The performance blues song is another and so is Love Me tender from the companion "Greatest Hits". Gotta start somewhere, right?

EnGee - thank you, thank you, thank you!!! I will definitely look into one of those DAW's before the next recital.

Linda, so glad your still happily plugging away and are going so well. Those new books sound really interesting, it's good to get your feedback on them as in all honesty I haven't heard of them before.

Andrew, I loved The Entertainer, well played as always. I'm glad your lessons are going well too.

Mike I have the same "unlearn and learn again" problem with my teacher. I have been told that I am not to start new stuff before she can teach it in a lesson. So I was like a puppy with my tail between my legs lol. So from here on in I can see my progress being very slow, but at least I wont have to unlearn all my bad mistakes.

I've been super busy the past couple of days but have managed to get short daily practice sessions in. I also had a look at the Schumann recital music that I stupidly dobbed myself in for, and I'm more than a little worried I have bitten off more than I can chew. It probably didn't help that my teacher paled slightly when I told her I'm doing it, I thought I was going to have to get out the smelling salts for a second lol. I'll take the music to my next lesson and hopefully she can help me make sense of it. I have until March, surely I can play it by then???

MandyD - I haven't had to hold up yet but sometimes I do recognize I'm racing to complete a piece. I need one of those mechanical arms to smack me when that happens. I have also warmed up before playing with the melody hand alone lately. Just a few measures. That seems to help my fingers, head and tightness. Then I find it easier to get into the song and play it as well as I am able. When I start up cold, it's harder. I attribute that to tightness - mental and physical. Regardless, it helps me relax.

Of course, when you get to Carnegie Hall, you can't do that

Mike

I didn't get a lot of practice in today, but I was able to spend some quality time doing technical exercises.

Mandy: Regarding the Schumann recital, I know what you mean about being worried. We're not alone, though, as there's a support thread for it. I printed out a copy of "Melodi" which is the one I selected, but I don't know if it's true to the original. Where did you find the music sheet for your Schumann piece?

Music for Album for the Young can be found at imslp.org which is the go to site for free classical music. There are generally several versions of a piece (or book of pieces) which may or may not have fingering. This one here has fingering.

The pieces you guys have selected are well within your range even now (based on recent recital performances) and are not played very fast either. A guy called "cubusdk" who often pops up when you search youtube for a piece has done very nice versions of both pieces so check him out.

Nine months is a long time, especially in your first year of piano when obviously there is quite a big improvement from zero to end of year. After looking at the more complex of the pieces I chose, I am depending on it lol.

Thanks for the vote of confidence. In that case I think I'll also sign up for #15 Frühlingsgesang. Haha, not really. My biggest concern is that my piece won't sound musical. But, you're right, it's a ways off, so I've got some room for improvement between now and then. Anyway, it's all Mandy's fault, what with her swooning teacher and panic-inducing hysteria.

ETA: Oops.. forgot to thank you for the music sheet link. Thanks for that, I'm printing it out now!

Linda you make me laugh. Thanks Earlofmar for the encouragement, but I really am wondering about getting that left hand moving, I sort of have the melody half reasonable, but your right there is a lot of time left to practice. Oh Linda here's a link that may help too, Melody is a beautiful piece and I'm sure you sill do it justice - http://petrucci.mus.auth.gr/imglnks...nn_-_Album_f__r_die_Jugend_-_Opus_68.pdf

As for the Alfred's book, still slowly plugging away, even slower now that my darn teacher has banned me from moving ahead lol. I will still be in this thread when you have all off and left months before to go to the L2 one.

Mike I was aiming for the Sydney Opera House, but I suppose Carnegie Hall will do!

A new book arrived today, Alfred's "The First Book of Scales, Chords, Arpeggios & Cadences." This evening I started in on the first page with C major in parallel motion in 2 octaves. Just hands separate for now, trying to get used to the fingering.

With that book, plus "A Dozen a Day", "Pathways to Artistry", and Alfred's AIO method book, I feel like I've finally got some good stuff to work with. I have other programs and aps to work with, but those 4 books will be my main focus for daily practice. Then for fun I have a variety of easy music books and a few large fake books to play around with.

As for "Lullaby," I believe I've done as much as I can with it so I'm calling it done. Next up is the flat sign and "Rock it Away."

Mandy, thanks for the link. I've slowed myself down with the Alfred's AIO book, so I'll be hanging around here in L1 for a while yet. Besides, more people may come along to join in all this fun.

Just like to share my experiences from last year, (my first year), with regards to scales and exercises. Like every beginner I thought I had to do scales (although my teacher was indifferent about them). Also when my fingers didn't achieve the dexterity of Lang Lang within the first few months, I thought I had to do exercises and I chose Hanon as my punishment of choice. I drew the line at arpeggios though; they were a bridge too far.

After a month or so at Hanon I didn't find my fingers were getting any more nimble, rather each drill was more like learning a piece, difficult with a long learning period, without the enjoyment. My scales were ok but unconfident, definitely slow and of course daunting with there being so many ways to play them (staccato, contrary motion, thirds, etc). After a while of not seeing improvement and more and more time being devoted to exercising I gave up. Asking myself why I wasn’t improving I started reading the anti scale and exercise discussions which made a lot of sense. Primarily the thinking is the early student should not do scales or exercises and the more extreme view is both are worthless to successful repertoire. Of course this is contrary to the exam system which focuses heavily on scales and arpeggios from the outset so there are as many people defending scales and exercises as opposed to them.

Reading the "anti" views gave me the excuse I needed to stop just about everything except repertoire, but I always planned to return. Partly because as a young man learning guitar, six flats or sharps used to scare the bejesus out of me and I wanted to get over that, but also because it just seems to be intrinsic to learning the “right” way. So I found myself returning to scales in May this year, by then I had 17 months experience since starting piano and it really showed. All the small technical pieces I had been learning had built my technique and confidence up gradually and instead of a steep learning curve I envisaged I learned every major and harmonic minor scale in two octaves over a single month and now have a daily regime of using them as my warm up. So my opinion is don’t feel you need to push yourself into scales right away. It is good to be aware of them early on and learning what you need, but remember you may be playing them for the rest of your playing days, there is plenty of time.

My thoughts on exercises are pretty much the same but again are formed by practical example. Since my first days of piano when I realised 43 years of guitar gave me no edge as far as weak fourth and ring fingers, I have seen this as an obstacle to good technique and tried many different things. Nothing has worked until recently, now 22 months into my journey where I am seeing a major shift in dexterity. I give scales some credit but I give most credit to time at the piano and a slow gradual change in muscle development over the period much the same as we see in sport. In trail running we used to talk of a two year entry before you “found your feet” for the sport. In addition to time, technical pieces from Bach, Clementi, Gurlitt and any composer who wrote with the beginner in mind have been invaluable. While no single piece will do it I am currently working at an intense level of a technical piece I hope to present in the next recital which has helped enormously.

What about arpeggio’s I hear you ask well I fear there may be an intervention later this year to get me to start playing arpeggio’s, I think my teacher is waiting for the right moment (or a straight jacket ordered from ebay).

So you made it to the end of my little post....ready for your reward?.....would you like to see what you will be like it you get addicted to piano exercises?......ok be warned it’s not pretty.......miss the beginning and go straight to 12:26 here

I disagree somewhat with EarlofMar, in that I think that scales are valuable for a dedicated beginner (i.e. one who won't quit because their teacher makes them do boring stuff like scales). Everyone is different of course, so you have to find what works for you. But scales, if used properly, can really help build a strong foundation.

I don't think it's a good idea to learn them all at once (especially for a beginner). Rather, I think it's best to learn them piecemeal as you start playing pieces in different keys. Now here's the thing. You have to focus on the right thing. And for a beginner, speed is absolutely the wrong thing to focus on. Don't worry about playing your scales quickly. If you play them properly, speed will come naturally.

Focus instead on playing them with relaxation. Focus on eliminating tension as you play them. And focus on playing them evenly in terms of dynamics (loudness) and rhythm. And when you play scales hands together, focus on getting the notes played by each hand to strike simultaneously (absolutely no lag).

Once you have the basic scales down, they make a fantastic warm up. And once you have them down, you can also start to challenge yourself with variations.

Now, I'm a big fan of playing scales because I get a lot of value from them. More than just technique, I also find that playing scales will center me. It lets me sort of empty my mind of whatever is going on in my life and then just be at the piano. I've previously compared playing scales to meditation, and they can be that if you approach them with that frame of mind.

And finally, when you are ready to speed up, I think scales are the best place to introduce the use of a metronome. But when you do, always always focus on staying relaxed.

It's kinda reassuring to know that I'm making the 'right mistakes'. Whether it's scales or a simple piece I've been practising, I found I'm often trying to play them at the speed I've heard them played by experienced performers, as in my head that sounds 'right'. And of course, imprecision, fumbling, and frustration follow.

I also like scales (which I found unexpected) ; and often, when I've been practising some measures, and everything seems to be losing shape or focus, I stop, close my eyes, and play scales. This has the effect of dissolving the frustrations, and bringing me 'back to base'.

Really excellent advice IMHO!

I started and finished "Rock it Away" today, the first song win the Alfred's book with flats. OK, yeah, it was a simple song. I also worked on the next few pages that covered Half Steps, Whole Steps, and Tetrachords.

earlofmar: Thanks for sharing your experience with scales and exercises. I've read some about the controversy of doing Hannon exercises, and decided a while ago not to do them.

I'm not trying to get my fingers to be more nimble. Right now I'm using the exercises in the books I have to help with some issues I'm having with poor posture, tension, dropped wrists, clumsy fingering, etc. The exercises are short and simple so I can actually relax while doing them and focus on technique. After just a couple days I'm already seeing some improvement, so I feel like I'm on the right track.

And I'm not in any danger of becoming addicted to piano exercises or scales. Most of my practice time is still spent on working through my Alfred's method book and learning to play new pieces. I think that's a pretty good balance.

fizikisto: Thanks a bunch! I will definitely be focusing on all those things you mention; relaxing, playing evenly, etc. And I'm not in any hurry to get scales up to any particular speed.

But can you please clarify when to introduce the metronome? How do I know when I'm ready to speed up? Do you mean once I get the fingering under control with hands together?

Purkly: I know what you mean about speeding up a piece. But more in the way of trying to get a song up to tempo. Oftentimes the tiniest uptick in speed feels like my fingers are having to learn the piece all over again.

Brian: Opinions, whether humble or not, are always appreciated.

Linda
Yes. As you play scales, you'll find that with enough practice it's not too hard to increase their speed pretty well. When you've got the patterns under your fingers (i.e., you don't need to think about them to play them) at a good range of tempos (from really slow to reasonably fast), and you can play them relaxed and without tension...that's the time to bring in the metronome. Ten different people might give you 10 completely different yet equally valid ways to approach this, there are a lot of ways you could do it and get effective results. This would be my approach:

Set the metronome at a pretty slow tempo, a tempo slow enough that you would never screw up playing the scale because of speed. And play the scale in quarter notes (that is, for every tick of the metronome, you play one note). With the metronome you're introducing something new, so make sure that you're not letting tension creep in. Do it for a bit each day, for as long as it takes for you to be completely comfortable with it (which might take a few days or a few weeks...there's no rush). Then play it in eighth notes (for ever tick of the metronome, you play two evenly spaced notes 1-and 2-and 3-and.... where you play the numbers on the tick). You'll be playing the scale twice as fast as your slow speed...that's why you want to start your metronome out really slow to begin with. Again, do that until you're completely comfortable, then you can move up to playing 16th notes (four evenly spaced notes for every tick of the metronome 1-ee-and-ah 2-ee-and-uh etc...). So here you'll be playing 4 times as fast as your beginning speed.

Once you can do that really comfortably, you can increase the speed on the metronome a bit, and then start the procedure all over. And remember, even though you're using the metronome to increase your speed of playing, speed is the LEAST important thing. Focus on playing relaxed, keep at it, and speed will come. If you find yourself getting frustrated, it probably means that you're trying to move up in tempo too quickly....So if you're having trouble playing the 16th notes, you may need to practice 8th notes more....or you might even need to lower the tempo of your metronome and start over with quarter notes. Don't worry about it. It may seem like it takes forever for speed to come, but it will come. And you'll be able to play fast and relaxed and with good dynamic control.

Hope that helps.

Earlofmar that bloke was pretty frightening lol.

I'm waiting to learn my next lot of scales. I've learnt the C, G & D major ones, and attempted the A major on my own. I can play 2 octaves easily in the one hand & sometimes to give my fingers a workout will do 3 or 4 octaves, but I struggle playing 2 octaves hands together with G & D, although I'm fine doing one octave and also 2 octaves of contrary motion with all of them.

For anyone who wants a bit of light reading (not!) on scales I found this and plan to one day sit down and go through it as it does look very informative if a little heavy going. http://waltercosand.com/CosandScores/Composers%20A-D/Cooke,%20James%20Francis/Mastering_the_Scales_and_Arpeggios.pdf

My teacher has assured me that they are a necessary evil (I actually don't mind them though), and that once I learn arpeggios she said I will come across pieces of music and my hands will just fall into place from having already practiced them? She seems to think like you fizi, that speed will sort itself out but I have to concentrate on playing them with the same pressure on each key and no lagging or speeding up, oh and there can be absolutely NO lag when my thumb goes underneath either. She's a bit hard like this, but I need someone like this or I'll slacken off lol.

I actually managed to learn most of it and had some good success particularly in strengthening lower arm muscles but it is a hard exercise.

Scales are difficult as you have to be very focused but just like a piece of music muscle memory eventually kicks in and they become second nature. So it just comes down to steady practice.



added to my collection thanks so much

Very much so! I'm so glad you explained in detail because I had no idea about using the metronome in that way with scales. I'm not at all concerned about trying to get to a certain speed any time soon, but at least now I'll know how to go about it when I get to that point. Thank you!

Had a lot going on today but I managed to do a few pages in the Alfred's book that cover the C major scale, and then I started in on "Joy to the World." I also spent some time flipping through a huge fake book and finally picked a song to try tomorrow; "Take Me Home, Country Roads. I think it might be a bit too hard for me - 3 sharps and a lot of chords, but I'm going to give it a try anyway.

Since I've started with a new teacher (10 years experience with a 20 year old teacher compaired to 50 years worth with a 62 year old), I've realized how important learning the scales really is.
By that I mean I learned the scales with Alfred's as I went along but focused more on the songs & techniques. Now that I've started with Level 2 I realized how important they are and now working on learning them. Starting from scratch I'm working on C,G,D & A Maj scales two octaves in parallel & contrary along with their respective root, first & second inversions. She also has me doing chromatics for each scale position and eventually learn their arpeggios & cadences. As dry as it all sounds to some I'm starting to approach them as I do a new lesson song, outside material or as Fizikisto mentioned, something to be enjoyed.

Fizikisto, while I remember go have a look at Alfred's "The Complete Book of Scales, Chords, Arpeggios & Cadences".

Cheers,
Alux