Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.7 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
What's Hot!!
Mr. PianoWorld - the full interview
-------------------
European Tour for Piano Lovers
JOIN US FOR THE TOUR!
--------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
Find a Professional
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Advertise on Piano World

(ad)
Piano Buyer Guide
Piano Buyer Spring 2018
ad
Pierce Piano Atlas


Who's Online Now
59 registered members (Campanella12, CyberGene, David Izquierdo, AndyP, cliowa, Beemer, Bambers, 15 invisible), 1,161 guests, and 8 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
CLP Syringe with long needle #2315784
08/15/14 04:17 AM
08/15/14 04:17 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 627
Denmark
pinkfloydhomer Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
pinkfloydhomer  Offline OP
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 627
Denmark
I have a hard time applying Protek CLP to the hammer flanges without unscrewing the entire hammer mechanism. My current syringe has a thin needle that is about 4-5 cm long, but I need it to be more like 12 cm long.

I can't seem to find anywhere in my country (Denmark) to buy it. Do you know of an online seller in the EU that have this? Or could some of you guys in the US sell me one and send it?


Nordiska 120CA (Dongbei) upright from about 2004. Yamaha CP33 digital. Sennheiser HD 600.
(ad 800)
PTG Convention
PTG Journal
Re: CLP Syringe with long needle [Re: pinkfloydhomer] #2315797
08/15/14 05:11 AM
08/15/14 05:11 AM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,546
Canberra, ACT, Australia
C
Chris Leslie Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Chris Leslie  Offline
1000 Post Club Member
C

Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,546
Canberra, ACT, Australia
I use a 1ml disposable plastic pipette, but I don't dispose it. Maybe your pharmacists could supply one.


Chris Leslie ARPT
Piano technician
http://www.chrisleslie.com.au
Re: CLP Syringe with long needle [Re: pinkfloydhomer] #2315800
08/15/14 05:15 AM
08/15/14 05:15 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,230
France
O
Olek Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Olek  Offline
9000 Post Club Member
O

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,230
France
Originally Posted by pinkfloydhomer
I have a hard time applying Protek CLP to the hammer flanges without unscrewing the entire hammer mechanism. My current syringe has a thin needle that is about 4-5 cm long, but I need it to be more like 12 cm long.

I can't seem to find anywhere in my country (Denmark) to buy it. Do you know of an online seller in the EU that have this? Or could some of you guys in the US sell me one and send it?


Yes piano reparation is a hard job wink

do not put it on the plate that hold the center, nor on the butt wood.

[Linked Image]

Last edited by Olek; 08/15/14 07:25 AM.

Professional of the profession.
Foo Foo specialist
I wish to add some kind and sensitive phrase but nothing comes to mind.!
Re: CLP Syringe with long needle [Re: pinkfloydhomer] #2315824
08/15/14 07:19 AM
08/15/14 07:19 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 627
Denmark
pinkfloydhomer Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
pinkfloydhomer  Offline OP
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 627
Denmark
Maybe my technique is wrong?

I want to apply CLP to all the hammer flanges (and preferably wippen flanges, damper flanges etc).

I take the action out and put it on it's end vertically on the floor so that it I can apply CLP and let gravity pull the CLP into the flange. And so I can take care of all hammers in one go instead of having to unscrew each hammer.

The problem is that it is hard to reach the hammer flange from either side with my current needle of 5 cm. It has to be longer.

A pipette will not work at all? It is far too big to fin in between the hammer butts where the flange is. A pipette is fine if the hammer is already taken out of the action, but so is my current needle.

In other words, how do I treat all my hammer flanges at once? Do you have a better idea?


Nordiska 120CA (Dongbei) upright from about 2004. Yamaha CP33 digital. Sennheiser HD 600.
(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
Re: CLP Syringe with long needle [Re: pinkfloydhomer] #2315825
08/15/14 07:19 AM
08/15/14 07:19 AM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,577
Manywheres
A
A454.7 Offline
1000 Post Club Member
A454.7  Offline
1000 Post Club Member
A

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,577
Manywheres
Go to an apothecary, or wherever they dispense medicine in your country, and buy a syringe with a long needle?


Masters degree in piano technology, +factory(s) training, etc., blah, blah, yada, yada, yada...[uncensored break-out in song]..."it don't mean a thing, if you aint got that swing."
--Klavierbaukuenstler des Erwachens--
Email: klavierbaukuenstler@gmail.com
Re: CLP Syringe with long needle [Re: pinkfloydhomer] #2315829
08/15/14 07:26 AM
08/15/14 07:26 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,230
France
O
Olek Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Olek  Offline
9000 Post Club Member
O

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,230
France
Can we know why do you want to lube those centers ?


Professional of the profession.
Foo Foo specialist
I wish to add some kind and sensitive phrase but nothing comes to mind.!
Re: CLP Syringe with long needle [Re: pinkfloydhomer] #2315835
08/15/14 07:33 AM
08/15/14 07:33 AM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 543
Farmington, MO
Ryan Hassell Offline
500 Post Club Member
Ryan Hassell  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 543
Farmington, MO
You might try a place that sells feed and supply for livestock. I was able to find a large syringe at my local feed store. They use them to give shots to horses and cows.


Ryan G. Hassell
Hassell's Piano Tuning
Farmington, MO
www.hassellspianotuning.com
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Hassells-Piano-Tuning/163155880804
ryanhassell@hotmail.com
Re: CLP Syringe with long needle [Re: pinkfloydhomer] #2315837
08/15/14 07:41 AM
08/15/14 07:41 AM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,596
Strong, Maine
David Jenson Offline
2000 Post Club Member
David Jenson  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,596
Strong, Maine
Thin plastic tubing (like the thing that comes on the WD 40 cans) works very well as a pipette. It's easier for me to control than a syringe which has a nasty tendency to dump an unwanted amount all at once.


David L. Jenson
Tuning - Repairs - Refurbishing
Jenson's Piano Service
-----
Re: CLP Syringe with long needle [Re: A454.7] #2315841
08/15/14 07:53 AM
08/15/14 07:53 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 627
Denmark
pinkfloydhomer Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
pinkfloydhomer  Offline OP
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 627
Denmark
Originally Posted by A443
Go to an apothecary, or wherever they dispense medicine in your country, and buy a syringe with a long needle?


I tried that, but they did not have 10-12 cm long needles, and the needles were not thin enough either.


Nordiska 120CA (Dongbei) upright from about 2004. Yamaha CP33 digital. Sennheiser HD 600.
Re: CLP Syringe with long needle [Re: Olek] #2315842
08/15/14 07:57 AM
08/15/14 07:57 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 627
Denmark
pinkfloydhomer Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
pinkfloydhomer  Offline OP
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 627
Denmark
Originally Posted by Olek
Can we know why do you want to lube those centers ?


Because they move sluggishly. If I press certain keys slowly, the hammer just stays close to the strings instead of falling back. If I press a key and move the hammer to the strings, the hammer does not fall back by itself. It creates bubbling and it affects tone also that the hammer stays for too long at the strings. It also affects repetition that the action returns slowly.

I treated one of the hammer flanges with CLP and I also increased the tension of the hammer butt (return?) spring. It solved the problem. This key now has smoother, more controllable movement, faster return and repetition, less bubbling and better tone. But it is hard to do with all 88 hammers. I had to unscrew that hammer to apply the CLP and especially to increase the tension of the spring.


Nordiska 120CA (Dongbei) upright from about 2004. Yamaha CP33 digital. Sennheiser HD 600.
Re: CLP Syringe with long needle [Re: pinkfloydhomer] #2315853
08/15/14 08:55 AM
08/15/14 08:55 AM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,577
Manywheres
A
A454.7 Offline
1000 Post Club Member
A454.7  Offline
1000 Post Club Member
A

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,577
Manywheres
I don't use CLP.

I have no doubt that CLP can be a huge time saver in some situations, however I view its application a shortcut and potential future liability. If you want a shortcut, I would go with alcohol, since it has the power to resize the bushings and then evaporate away. If the pins truly needed to be lubed, then they should be removed, polished, lubed (dry-based), and then installed--the lube shouldn't spread throughout the felt and wood.

If hammers stay close to the strings instead of falling back, then CLP is not the answer anyway: a full action repining is in order. If the condition of the bushing felts are still workable, I'd start over with sizing them all of the bushings with alcohol and/or heat (i.e., out of the bird's-eye and with different pins). Once they are done drying to a uniform consistency, one can reinstall the entire set with an appropriate size pin for both the bird's-eyes and the bushings with minimal adjustments. NOTE: make sure you mic and group your pins, as they can/will differ substantially.

If the bushings are too gunked-up from technicians applying various treatments to them over the years, then start anew by replacing the felt bushings, followed by the sizing and repining.

FYI: I polish my pins with Flitz (i.e., aluminium oxide polish), and sometimes coat with a quality dry based lubricant (e.g., teflon).


Masters degree in piano technology, +factory(s) training, etc., blah, blah, yada, yada, yada...[uncensored break-out in song]..."it don't mean a thing, if you aint got that swing."
--Klavierbaukuenstler des Erwachens--
Email: klavierbaukuenstler@gmail.com
Re: CLP Syringe with long needle [Re: A454.7] #2315959
08/15/14 02:53 PM
08/15/14 02:53 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 627
Denmark
pinkfloydhomer Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
pinkfloydhomer  Offline OP
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 627
Denmark
I was following the advice from Marco Igrec's book "Pianos inside out". Before regulation, he recommends lubing various parts of the action, including the hammer flanges, with CLP.

And as I wrote, it seems to have worked "permanently" on the hammer where I tried it. I guess alcohol is a good idea too. In this case, I would have to unscrew each wippen and hammer. Maybe I should do this anyway, even if I use CLP. This would also enable me to increase the tension of the hammer spring.

Last edited by pinkfloydhomer; 08/15/14 02:54 PM.

Nordiska 120CA (Dongbei) upright from about 2004. Yamaha CP33 digital. Sennheiser HD 600.
Re: CLP Syringe with long needle [Re: pinkfloydhomer] #2315994
08/15/14 04:20 PM
08/15/14 04:20 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,230
France
O
Olek Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Olek  Offline
9000 Post Club Member
O

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,230
France
Originally Posted by pinkfloydhomer
I was following the advice from Marco Igrec's book "Pianos inside out". Before regulation, he recommends lubing various parts of the action, including the hammer flanges, with CLP.

And as I wrote, it seems to have worked "permanently" on the hammer where I tried it. I guess alcohol is a good idea too. In this case, I would have to unscrew each wippen and hammer. Maybe I should do this anyway, even if I use CLP. This would also enable me to increase the tension of the hammer spring.


I doubt Mario himself lube all centers with CLP as he say, the book is as Reblitz power ten, with much very good thoughts and points, but the same recollection of typical US piano technology tips that do not really apply here.
This is probably due to the interviewing of the tech that are mostly based in USA.

I also find mistakes (false info or idea), but the book is so nice I prefer not to talk about them.

CLP is an addictive product, you may need to add more an more regularly .Unless a consistent pinning nee to be a little more free, I see no real use for it.
AT some point it turns to Teflon (hard synthetic material) .

Treated hammer flanges are more prone to have the centers pulling out than if no CLP have been used.
I have seen that on numerous occasions (when I was using CLP in music schools)
As migrating centers is yet the typical disease of vertical pianos, no nee to facilitate that.







Professional of the profession.
Foo Foo specialist
I wish to add some kind and sensitive phrase but nothing comes to mind.!
Re: CLP Syringe with long needle [Re: pinkfloydhomer] #2315998
08/15/14 04:34 PM
08/15/14 04:34 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,230
France
O
Olek Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Olek  Offline
9000 Post Club Member
O

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,230
France
Originally Posted by pinkfloydhomer
Originally Posted by Olek
Can we know why do you want to lube those centers ?


Because they move sluggishly. If I press certain keys slowly, the hammer just stays close to the strings instead of falling back. If I press a key and move the hammer to the strings, the hammer does not fall back by itself. It creates bubbling and it affects tone also that the hammer stays for too long at the strings. It also affects repetition that the action returns slowly.

I treated one of the hammer flanges with CLP and I also increased the tension of the hammer butt (return?) spring. It solved the problem. This key now has smoother, more controllable movement, faster return and repetition, less bubbling and better tone. But it is hard to do with all 88 hammers. I had to unscrew that hammer to apply the CLP and especially to increase the tension of the spring.

at that point, not a Clp job, alcohol moisture first to size the parts

a repair that is "definitive" mean the parts are ok for 5 10 years , generally way more
what you see is the result, it does not mean the partsare functionning normally


Professional of the profession.
Foo Foo specialist
I wish to add some kind and sensitive phrase but nothing comes to mind.!
Re: CLP Syringe with long needle [Re: pinkfloydhomer] #2316363
08/16/14 08:15 PM
08/16/14 08:15 PM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,912
Michigan
K
kpembrook Offline
Platinum Subscriber
kpembrook  Offline
Platinum Subscriber
K

Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,912
Michigan
Originally Posted by pinkfloydhomer
I have a hard time applying Protek CLP to the hammer flanges without unscrewing the entire hammer mechanism. My current syringe has a thin needle that is about 4-5 cm long, but I need it to be more like 12 cm long.

I can't seem to find anywhere in my country (Denmark) to buy it. Do you know of an online seller in the EU that have this? Or could some of you guys in the US sell me one and send it?


It's a #17 to #24 spinal tap. I have an older one made from stainless steel. The newer ones are made to be disposable. When I happened to misplace my older one for a while I got a supply of the disposable ones from a customer of mine who happens to be an anesthesiologist.


Keith Akins, RPT
Piano Technologist
USA Distributor for Isaac Cadenza hammers and Profundo Bass Strings
Supporting Piano Owners D-I-Y piano tuning and repair
Editor Emeritus, Piano Technicians Journal
Re: CLP Syringe with long needle [Re: Olek] #2316364
08/16/14 08:20 PM
08/16/14 08:20 PM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,912
Michigan
K
kpembrook Offline
Platinum Subscriber
kpembrook  Offline
Platinum Subscriber
K

Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,912
Michigan
Originally Posted by Olek


I doubt Mario himself lube all centers with CLP as he say, the book is as Reblitz power ten, with much very good thoughts and points, but the same recollection of typical US piano technology tips that do not really apply here.


This is routine good practice here. What is different there? The product is the same . . .

Quote

CLP is an addictive product, you may need to add more an more regularly .Unless a consistent pinning nee to be a little more free, I see no real use for it.
AT some point it turns to Teflon (hard synthetic material) .


Not in my experience. With Protek CLP it is pretty much once and done. In the case of the dreaded verdigris the problem may come back after a while but I still find it long-lasting.


Keith Akins, RPT
Piano Technologist
USA Distributor for Isaac Cadenza hammers and Profundo Bass Strings
Supporting Piano Owners D-I-Y piano tuning and repair
Editor Emeritus, Piano Technicians Journal
Re: CLP Syringe with long needle [Re: kpembrook] #2316380
08/16/14 09:37 PM
08/16/14 09:37 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,546
Canberra, ACT, Australia
C
Chris Leslie Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Chris Leslie  Offline
1000 Post Club Member
C

Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,546
Canberra, ACT, Australia
Originally Posted by kpembrook

Not in my experience. With Protek CLP it is pretty much once and done. In the case of the dreaded verdigris the problem may come back after a while but I still find it long-lasting.

I started using CLP since about 2 years ago on those odd sluggish jack or hammer flanges in the field before deciding to pull things apart. It usually works almost instantly. When I get return calls in those cases then I will let yous know. Of course, those that don't respond get repined, and any workshop cases are always repined.

I also find that a 1ml disposable pipette, which is about 10cm long and about 3mm thick, reaches in adequately to just about anywhere in the action without disassembly although the action may have to be removed.


Chris Leslie ARPT
Piano technician
http://www.chrisleslie.com.au
Re: CLP Syringe with long needle [Re: Chris Leslie] #2316479
08/17/14 07:30 AM
08/17/14 07:30 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 627
Denmark
pinkfloydhomer Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
pinkfloydhomer  Offline OP
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 627
Denmark
I was watching this video

http://vimeo.com/21494671

where he applies CLP at about 12:30. It shocked me a bit that he was just "pouring" it out on top of the wood part above the hammer flanges, instead if putting it more precisely on the ends of the flanges. I guess it works also.

In my case, though, it is an upright piano. So it is not as easy to get to that part, even if I've taken the action out of the piano.


Nordiska 120CA (Dongbei) upright from about 2004. Yamaha CP33 digital. Sennheiser HD 600.
Re: CLP Syringe with long needle [Re: pinkfloydhomer] #2316485
08/17/14 07:54 AM
08/17/14 07:54 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,230
France
O
Olek Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Olek  Offline
9000 Post Club Member
O

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,230
France
The only cases of Grand centers pulling out from the flange was from CLP treated parts.

I have nothing against lubing centers, but will not work with a product sold without clear explanation on its effect.

As I said, I stick with Renner method since I learned it. And have no problems up to now.

The tech that pour CLP does that because the action was a bit stiff from scratch, probably climate related.
I think he should have first used the adjustment with water sizing, as of today he is in need to add CLP yearly.
Himself confirmed me it is usually not the thing to do on a recent Renner action, as I asked.
But sizing solutions ask you 8 hours time.



Last edited by Olek; 08/17/14 05:07 PM.

Professional of the profession.
Foo Foo specialist
I wish to add some kind and sensitive phrase but nothing comes to mind.!
Re: CLP Syringe with long needle [Re: Chris Leslie] #2316487
08/17/14 08:00 AM
08/17/14 08:00 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,230
France
O
Olek Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Olek  Offline
9000 Post Club Member
O

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,230
France
Originally Posted by Chris Leslie
Originally Posted by kpembrook

Not in my experience. With Protek CLP it is pretty much once and done. In the case of the dreaded verdigris the problem may come back after a while but I still find it long-lasting.

I started using CLP since about 2 years ago on those odd sluggish jack or hammer flanges in the field before deciding to pull things apart. It usually works almost instantly. When I get return calls in those cases then I will let yous know. Of course, those that don't respond get repined, and any workshop cases are always repined.

I also find that a 1ml disposable pipette, which is about 10cm long and about 3mm thick, reaches in adequately to just about anywhere in the action without disassembly although the action may have to be removed.


Chris, re centering is due if the center is bad, worn, corroded.
If not you can avoid yourself unnecessary work with sizing solace. After checking the pin conditions of course.
The cloth do not wear usually but compress (case of too much play)
If sluggish the level of freebies given by CLP is not that large, the part must be functional with just a hair more friction than wanted to use CLP.

I had call back on a 3-4 weeks span before I understood that.

Not very comfortable to leave stuck parts in the customers piano when living, but next day the problem is cured is assessed correctly from the start.

Last edited by Olek; 08/17/14 08:01 AM.

Professional of the profession.
Foo Foo specialist
I wish to add some kind and sensitive phrase but nothing comes to mind.!
Re: CLP Syringe with long needle [Re: pinkfloydhomer] #2316524
08/17/14 09:58 AM
08/17/14 09:58 AM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 26
PNW
M
MilePost51 Offline
Full Member
MilePost51  Offline
Full Member
M

Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 26
PNW
PFHomer,
Thanks for the Vimeo link.
I watched both videos featuring
Mr. Wandler, well worth watching.
Not to get into the CLP debate though.
MP51


Working on being a retired piano tuner.
Re: CLP Syringe with long needle [Re: pinkfloydhomer] #2316596
08/17/14 03:15 PM
08/17/14 03:15 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,758
Mexico City
Gadzar Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Gadzar  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,758
Mexico City
Nice video.

One thing is bothering me. In the balance rail, why the paper punchings are left on top? Shouldn't they be placed below the felt punchings?



Rafael Melo
Piano Technician
rafaelmelo@afinacionpianos.com.mx

Serving Mexico City and suburbs.

http://www.afinacionpianos.com.mx
Re: CLP Syringe with long needle [Re: pinkfloydhomer] #2316614
08/17/14 05:09 PM
08/17/14 05:09 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,230
France
O
Olek Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Olek  Offline
9000 Post Club Member
O

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,230
France
there are no usual cloth punchings, the ones are cut in two and glued on the keys, I think.

SO you only can put paper on the balance rail.


Professional of the profession.
Foo Foo specialist
I wish to add some kind and sensitive phrase but nothing comes to mind.!
Re: CLP Syringe with long needle [Re: Olek] #2316631
08/17/14 06:14 PM
08/17/14 06:14 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,546
Canberra, ACT, Australia
C
Chris Leslie Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Chris Leslie  Offline
1000 Post Club Member
C

Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,546
Canberra, ACT, Australia
Originally Posted by Olek
there are no usual cloth punchings, the ones are cut in two and glued on the keys, I think.

SO you only can put paper on the balance rail.

Issac, do you think that this might be because of taking advantage of decreasing down weight by the use of half-moon felt punchings, and that the punchings will be more stable by gluing onto the keystick rather than resting on the balance rail with little support? (Sorry, two questions in one sentence)
This would also make it easier to change papers when required.


Chris Leslie ARPT
Piano technician
http://www.chrisleslie.com.au
Re: CLP Syringe with long needle [Re: pinkfloydhomer] #2316650
08/17/14 06:38 PM
08/17/14 06:38 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,758
Mexico City
Gadzar Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Gadzar  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,758
Mexico City
Thanks Isaac. I was wondering what were those red things under the keys.

Doesn't the glue make the felt to become hard, to the point of making noise?



Rafael Melo
Piano Technician
rafaelmelo@afinacionpianos.com.mx

Serving Mexico City and suburbs.

http://www.afinacionpianos.com.mx
Re: CLP Syringe with long needle [Re: pinkfloydhomer] #2316733
08/17/14 10:00 PM
08/17/14 10:00 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,087
Montreal, Quebec, Canada
M
Mark Cerisano Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Mark Cerisano  Offline
3000 Post Club Member
M

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,087
Montreal, Quebec, Canada
I do not use CLP. I did once and the sluggishness came back. The customer wrote me off as a hack. I can't afford to "experiment" with techniques that may or may not fix the customer's problem.

I re-pin.

For the DIYer, it's a different story.


Mark Cerisano, RPT, B.Sc.(Mech.Eng), Dip.Ed.(Music)
www.howtotunepianos.com
Re: CLP Syringe with long needle [Re: Mark Cerisano] #2316759
08/17/14 11:29 PM
08/17/14 11:29 PM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,912
Michigan
K
kpembrook Offline
Platinum Subscriber
kpembrook  Offline
Platinum Subscriber
K

Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,912
Michigan
Originally Posted by Mark Cerisano, RPT
I do not use CLP. I did once and the sluggishness came back. The customer wrote me off as a hack. I can't afford to "experiment" with techniques that may or may not fix the customer's problem.

I re-pin.

For the DIYer, it's a different story.


But not a really scientific approach. Conceivably you might have used any number of other approaches and they would fail on a random basis, as well. Multiple technicians have made huge multiples of applications of Protek CLP with only beneficial results.

And, repinning certainly is not a satisfactory solution to verdigris, for example. And, it has its own additional issues, as well.

I think you are allowing what would certainly be an isolated event to cause you to provide a lower level of service to your customers. (Application of CLP is certainly a lower cost than replacing 352 centerpins.)


Keith Akins, RPT
Piano Technologist
USA Distributor for Isaac Cadenza hammers and Profundo Bass Strings
Supporting Piano Owners D-I-Y piano tuning and repair
Editor Emeritus, Piano Technicians Journal
Re: CLP Syringe with long needle [Re: pinkfloydhomer] #2316767
08/18/14 12:04 AM
08/18/14 12:04 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 26,614
Oakland
B
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
BDB  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
B

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 26,614
Oakland
You need to make it clear that sometimes it does not work, but it is much cheaper than repinning.


Semipro Tech
Re: CLP Syringe with long needle [Re: pinkfloydhomer] #2316778
08/18/14 12:43 AM
08/18/14 12:43 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,087
Montreal, Quebec, Canada
M
Mark Cerisano Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Mark Cerisano  Offline
3000 Post Club Member
M

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,087
Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Keith, I'm sure I do not understand your post. How does replacing a pin that is rusted, not solve the problem of a rusted pin, which is, in my opinion, the only way to solve it.

It seems to me, a rusted, jagged pin surface, can not be made smooth by the application of a lubricant.

Also, how is replacing rusted pins with new smooth ones, a lower level of service than just masking the problem with oil?

By the way, I have other, much easier, and more effective mechanical ways to ease a tight center pin. Ways that are even faster than applying oil. And they are guaranteed to work.

Also, not to belittle the subject, but the real difficulty in this job is being able to remove and replace a hammer flange; in my opinion, the hardest part of piano repair. Possibly, the one procedure that took me the longest to learn to do well, by well I mean fast.

The trick to removing the screw, is not to use your eyes, but feel the screw head with the screwdriver. Turn and feel, until the driver end slips into the screw slot.

On replacing, don't search for the hole, but take a sight line before inserting the screw, and make one approach, directly in, first time.

Last edited by Mark Cerisano, RPT; 08/18/14 12:46 AM.

Mark Cerisano, RPT, B.Sc.(Mech.Eng), Dip.Ed.(Music)
www.howtotunepianos.com
Re: CLP Syringe with long needle [Re: pinkfloydhomer] #2316781
08/18/14 12:55 AM
08/18/14 12:55 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,087
Montreal, Quebec, Canada
M
Mark Cerisano Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Mark Cerisano  Offline
3000 Post Club Member
M

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,087
Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Addendum. In fact, I'm sure I don't understand the post, or you mine.

If I had a piano with every center pin sluggish, I would be very surprised if the oil would work on all the pins. In my opinion, that would be a recipe for disaster. And unless the piano was a high quality instrument worthy of a rebuild or reconditioning, I wouldn't recommend the expense.

I'm talking about the typical case with 10 - 20 pins that are sluggish.

Also, repinning, as a procedure, does not "fail randomly" if done right, or they wouldn't use it to make the piano in the first place.

Best regards,


Mark Cerisano, RPT, B.Sc.(Mech.Eng), Dip.Ed.(Music)
www.howtotunepianos.com
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Piano World 

(ad)
Sweetwater - Keyboards
Sweetwater
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Disgusted with iTunes. Suggestions for iPhone?
by gooddog. 10/23/18 01:01 AM
Whaletone
by Tyrone Slothrop. 10/23/18 12:36 AM
What do you use to hold loose sheet music up?
by Tyrone Slothrop. 10/23/18 12:22 AM
Bechstein A190
by Bingo55. 10/22/18 11:32 PM
Key Action Roland FP-30 vs Kawai es110
by donfelipes. 10/22/18 10:57 PM
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Petrof
Forum Statistics
Forums40
Topics187,944
Posts2,754,846
Members91,316
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Please Support Our Advertisers
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

Sweetwater

PianoTeq Petrof
Piano Buyer Spring 2018
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2018 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.2