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miltonx Offline OP
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I used to think the case of an upright muffles the higher frequencies more than the bottom and mid parts, resulting in a darker tone. However, experiments on my piano proved the truth to be rather counter-intuitive. My piano usually is too steely bright to my ear, but after opening up the top lid and taking off the front panel, I was pleasantly surprised with a quite balanced tone. The top luster is still there, but it is well balanced with a rich mix of bass and mid. I can actually feel the beautiful acoustic interplay between steel, wool and wood. I did not voice the hammer. Just opened the case all up.

It's a 40-year old Fritz Kuhla made in Japan, full size, sound board and case in solid wood. The case is in very good condition. Is it because the wood panel's acounstic character is more toward the higher frequency therefore bolsters the brightness when attached? I'm wondering whether this is an individual case or true with most other uprights. What's your experience?

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It has long been a source of puzzlement to me just why any pianomaker would put any effort at all into building a decent vertical piano and then enclose it in a sound-tight box.

It has long been understood that the closest path between two points is a straight line -- hence the open grillwork on so many old upright pianos. It was a good idea then and it remains a good idea today.

But for some reason it doesn't quite fit into the styling schemes of modern furniture designers.

ddf


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Del, I don't agree with you on the styling schemes. That depends on the shape of the holes. Anything can be made contemporary imho. I agree that it would be a very good idea to reintroduce open grillworks. I play with my piano open as much as possible.

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Originally Posted by wimpiano
Del, I don't agree with you on the styling schemes. That depends on the shape of the holes. Anything can be made contemporary imho. I agree that it would be a very good idea to reintroduce open grillworks. I play with my piano open as much as possible.

I've been working to get open grillworks in vertical pianos since the mid-1980s when I designed them into the newly redesigned Baldwin Hamilton. I've promoted them in every vertical piano redesign I've been involved in. In nearly every case they have been vetoed by the furniture designers.

ddf


Delwin D Fandrich
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Luckily, it's not that hard to completely open an upright. It takes me less than 1 minute to remove all of the panels, including the kickboard and fallboard, from my Yamaha U3. I also pull the left (bass) side of the piano away from the wall. This makes the sound MUCH better.

Grands sound better than uprights partly because they are open, and there is space between the soundboard and the floor. We can mimic this to a certain extent by opening our uprights and pulling them away from the wall.

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Originally Posted by Del
Originally Posted by wimpiano
Del, I don't agree with you on the styling schemes. That depends on the shape of the holes. Anything can be made contemporary imho. I agree that it would be a very good idea to reintroduce open grillworks. I play with my piano open as much as possible.

I've been working to get open grillworks in vertical pianos since the mid-1980s when I designed them into the newly redesigned Baldwin Hamilton. I've promoted them in every vertical piano redesign I've been involved in. In nearly every case they have been vetoed by the furniture designers.

ddf

That's really sad.. furniture designers says it all wink
I suppose the problem is that people think they know "what the public wants".
In my humble opinion an insult to the average piano buyer. Or am I overestimating pianobuyers? Are pianos sold primarily on looks?

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Originally Posted by Del

I've been working to get open grillworks in vertical pianos since the mid-1980s when I designed them into the newly redesigned Baldwin Hamilton. I've promoted them in every vertical piano redesign I've been involved in. In nearly every case they have been vetoed by the furniture designers.
ddf


I suppose you are familiar with the older Baldwin Hamiltons that had solutions to get the sound out. The top of the lid was in two parts, hinged the long way, so that you could flip it open and get the sound out the top. Of course, most people put junk on top (we did) so they can't easily open it. But that holds true for grands too.

Then, when you folded and pressed the fallboard in, I recall the front face piece could pop out a few cm. at the bottom such that a gap existed.

I think this was enough to get the sound out. Lately, when I play this Baldwin Hamilton back at the family homestead, it seems plenty loud (almost too loud considering the piano is in your face). Of course, when you want it louder, for cranking AC/DC and Deep Purple tunes. Then, you take off the face pieces.

Best regards-


phacke

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miltonx Offline OP
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Someone's got to set up a business making artistic naked uprigts, cut off price on the case, let out all the acoustic power, and put some competitors out of business :->

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Originally Posted by wimpiano
Originally Posted by Del
... I've been working to get open grillworks in vertical pianos since the mid-1980s when I designed them into the newly redesigned Baldwin Hamilton. I've promoted them in every vertical piano redesign I've been involved in. In nearly every case they have been vetoed by the furniture designers.

That's really sad.. furniture designers says it all wink
I suppose the problem is that people think they know "what the public wants".
In my humble opinion an insult to the average piano buyer. Or am I overestimating pianobuyers? Are pianos sold primarily on looks?

Some pianos are sold primarily on looks. And reputation (often gained by effective marketing rather than actual performance).

Having said that, it is still possible to open up the front of even "furniture style" pianos. It does take some creative thought on the part of the furniture designers and a commitment on the part of management.

ddf


Delwin D Fandrich
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My Pramberger (YC) has a "sound port" behind the music desk which you extend by pulling out at the bottom. The sound "escapes" out of the now open sides of the music desk. The lid hinges at one side like a grand with a prop stick to hold it open about 8".


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That the sound can "escape" through a small port or so does not help for the QUALITY of the escaped sound. The closed casing acts as a resonance box that amplifies certain frequenies and suppresses others. The wall behind it does exactly the same, but even more powerful.

If it really needs to be encased, it would probably the best to make it sound dead as they do with speakers. But I guess that would double the weight and price. Then it would be cheaper to get a grand


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Jeez,

Maybe I was only pointing out that some newer pianos also have holes cut in their front panels. When I say port, I was using the brochure terminology and it's not particularly small, about 120 sq in. I also put "escape" in quotes again to show that I found the brochure terminology a little specious.

A piano in a box sounds different from a piano not in a box. Got it. Thanks for the lesson in obvious.

Kurt


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