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Don't forget that the speaker system has a dramatic impact on the perceived sound quality of the SuperNatural Piano tone.
I explained more in the post above and edited the post you quoted for further clarity.
Jay
Last edited by Jay Roland; 08/02/14 11:35 PM.
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Thank you for your reply Jay. Don't forget that the speaker system has a dramatic impact on the perceived sound quality of the SuperNatural Piano tone. Yes, that's true. But if we take speaker systems out of the equation, i.e. listen through the same pair of headphones, will the F20 have the same sound quality as the LX-15? Kind regards, James x
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IF we were to take the speaker system out of the equation and listen to an LX-15e and F-20 through the same pair of headphones and have all the resonances set up exactly the same between the two instruments, on the default piano tone. Yes, I don't think anyone would hear an appreciable difference.
That's what I meant above when I said that there is a minimum specification for the SuperNatural Piano sound engine.
Jay
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Thank you for the clarification Jay.
James x
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Hi Jay Roland: Since the review here has had some influence on my views expressed in this thread I started can you share with me your views on it's factual inaccuracies. I'm really interested in the Roland F-130R. As well as anything related to factual issues, another aspect which is more subjective are comments made on the keyboard's action. I'm interested in hearing your views (and those of others who've played it -- on the action of the F-130R. Part of my interest has to do with comparing the F-130R with the Kawai ES7. I know -- Apples and Oranges. Not to mention a fairly hefty difference in price.
Last edited by Sushi Hammer; 08/07/14 07:24 PM.
Roland F-130R Formerly: Yamaha P-155 | Casio CDP-120 | Yamaha P-105 | Williams Allegro (had it for two weeks)
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Good news...for me a least.
On a whim, I called a local Sam Ash (10 minutes away). Of course no F-130R in stock. But the guy who answered the phone has good friends at Roland and is going to arrange to have one shipped over to the store...whether I buy it or not.
Finally! The opportunity to actually try before I buy.
Roland F-130R Formerly: Yamaha P-155 | Casio CDP-120 | Yamaha P-105 | Williams Allegro (had it for two weeks)
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Trust your fingers and your ears. The rest is just words.
Jay
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IF we were to take the speaker system out of the equation and listen to an LX-15e and F-20 through the same pair of headphones and have all the resonances set up exactly the same between the two instruments, on the default piano tone. Yes, I don't think anyone would hear an appreciable difference.
That's what I meant above when I said that there is a minimum specification for the SuperNatural Piano sound engine.
Jay Enter an enterprising software manufacturer. . . !
"I am not a man. I am a free number" " "
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...And this opportunity that opened up to actually play the F130R just 10 minutes away from I live is the preferred way to try a piano.
After all, who buys are car without test driving it?
Actually, I'm amazed because I just reread this entire thread and with the exception of Jay, no one actually played the F130R yet.
Last edited by Sushi Hammer; 08/08/14 11:19 AM.
Roland F-130R Formerly: Yamaha P-155 | Casio CDP-120 | Yamaha P-105 | Williams Allegro (had it for two weeks)
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It was that way with the RD800 too though Sushi. I got my demo model in November a full two months before it was released, and I wanted to sing from the rooftops. But had to wait for NAMM. Then it was still a few weeks before they were readily available.
Because I work for Roland, I see, hear and touch almost every Roland piano before any end user would have even heard of it.
Once the F-130R gets out there more widely, I'm sure impressions will come in.
But really, these are just words on a screen, and playing the pianos is the proof in the pudding.
Jay
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Well, you can be sure that, assuming these guys at Sam Ash follow through, I'll be trying the F-130R early next week -- and posting a first-hand review here.
Roland F-130R Formerly: Yamaha P-155 | Casio CDP-120 | Yamaha P-105 | Williams Allegro (had it for two weeks)
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The F 130r looks brilliant. The series has come such a long way since the F110, which didn't have SuperNatural sounds or a very good keyboard (the unlamented PHA alpha II)
But this all depends if the PHAIV in the F130r is similar to the PHAIV on the HP504 and HP506.
Last edited by toddy; 08/08/14 02:34 PM.
Roland HP 302 / Samson Graphite 49 / Akai EWI
Reaper / Native Instruments K9 ult / ESQL MOR2 Symph Orchestra & Choirs / Lucato & Parravicini , trumpets & saxes / Garritan CFX lite / Production Voices C7 & Steinway D compact
Focusrite Saffire 24 / W7, i7 4770, 16GB / MXL V67g / Yamaha HS7s / HD598
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Well, according to Roland's specs, they call it: 88 keys (PHA-4 Standard Keyboard: with Escapement and Ivory Feel) So I hope it's close!
Roland F-130R Formerly: Yamaha P-155 | Casio CDP-120 | Yamaha P-105 | Williams Allegro (had it for two weeks)
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Yes, me too! It would make it an excellent piano, also quite compact and good looking, at a relatively low price.
Roland HP 302 / Samson Graphite 49 / Akai EWI
Reaper / Native Instruments K9 ult / ESQL MOR2 Symph Orchestra & Choirs / Lucato & Parravicini , trumpets & saxes / Garritan CFX lite / Production Voices C7 & Steinway D compact
Focusrite Saffire 24 / W7, i7 4770, 16GB / MXL V67g / Yamaha HS7s / HD598
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The F 130r looks brilliant. The series has come such a long way since the F110, which didn't have SuperNatural sounds or a very good keyboard (the unlamented PHA alpha II)
But this all depends if the PHAIV in the F130r is similar to the PHAIV on the HP504 and HP506. Its much closer in feel to ITS big brother than the previous version to its big brother. It feels very nice and has an awesome connection to the sound engine. You will enjoy it. Jay
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I am totally looking forward to this. In fact, if it turns out that I get it...I will make every effort to do a video.
Roland F-130R Formerly: Yamaha P-155 | Casio CDP-120 | Yamaha P-105 | Williams Allegro (had it for two weeks)
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@Jay: Can you connect a roland DP without MIDI (almost none of them have a 'normal' midi connector) to another synth or Piano??
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Yup.
Use a UM-ONEmkII MIDI/USB Interface in "Tab" mode connected to the USB Port where you put a memory stick in. It'll act as if it were a traditional MIDI out.
Jay
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I had the chance today to try an F-130R (current generation PHA4-Standard action) side-by-side with an F-20 (previous generation Ivory Feel-G action). There's been some discussion in this thread regarding the difference between these actions, so I'll weigh in with my opinion.
I'm one of those who likes Ivory Feel-G action (though I can acknowledge its common criticisms as valid) and I'd say that PHA4-Standard feels very similar to it. If you liked the previous generation, you'll definitely still like PHA4-Standard--if you didn't, then I'm not sure if your opinion would be likely to change. It still felt a little "sluggish" to me (a common complaint that I've read about Ivory Feel-G), but I kinda like the feeling of weight that it imparts. I think I personally prefer it over Yamaha's (Arius and early 'P' series with GHS action) and Casio's (Privia line) offerings at similar prices, but I can see how it wouldn't be everyone's cup of tea. Worth noting that I have not been able to try Kawai's actions at the sub-$1400 price points and can't offer comparative opinion there. Key-bottoming noise didn't seem significantly different from Ivory Feel-G, but I can't rule out that it may have been a bit quieter.
I like Roland's SN sounds, so no complaints there. If you've liked them or tried them on other models you can expect more of the same from the F-130R. No doubt it will sound much better through headphones than through the tiny built-in speakers.
My pedal opinion is slightly mixed. On the one hand, I love that Roland's left (soft/una corde) pedal is a continuous-state response rather than binary. As far as I know, they're the only ones doing that, and they do it across their whole lineup, RPU-3 standalone pedal unit included. I strongly dislike the binary on-off left pedal in my MP11's F-30 pedal unit, and it's disappointing that (every?) other manufacturers cut this corner. On the other hand, it felt like I had to press down pretty far before the sustain pedal began its response. Once depressed far enough to begin there was plenty of room for graduated partial-sustain playing, but it seemed to me like it took too far to get to the start of the response. Maybe someone with an inclination toward tinkering could find a way to adjust this.
If one likes the action, it seems like it would make a fine choice at its price point.
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Hi Starboard:
I will be trying out the F-130R later this week. I've not spent much time with Roland pianos in the past. Most of my experience has been with Yamahas, the p105 and currently, the P155, both whose action I've come to dislike as being on the heavy side. The key-bottoming noise has also been an issue which I was hoping would be less with the Roland F-130R.
Since I am comparing Yamaha with the Roland, I'm hoping the difference will be more apparent to me...and most importantly -- to the positive.
I too have wanted to add the Kawai ES100 to the comparison pool, but I can't find any locally. Some folks have recommended I try some available Kawai's locally that have the same action, but I'm a little picky about that. If it's something I have to drive two hours through L.A. traffic to get to, it has to be the exact model I'd consider buying. I wound not test drive an BMW 5 series to decide whether to buy a 3 series -- and vice versa.
Going into a bit more detail on your thoughts about the F130R's action I have these questions:
1) What does everybody mean when they say it's sluggish? Do you mean heavy in comparison to an acoustic?
2) You mentioned that you prefer this type of action. Is that it helps condition your fingers?
Thanks!
Last edited by Sushi Hammer; 08/12/14 10:22 AM.
Roland F-130R Formerly: Yamaha P-155 | Casio CDP-120 | Yamaha P-105 | Williams Allegro (had it for two weeks)
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