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#2312973 - 08/08/14 01:24 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: JayGVan]  
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Well, you can be sure that, assuming these guys at Sam Ash follow through, I'll be trying the F-130R early next week -- and posting a first-hand review here.


Roland F-130R
Formerly: Yamaha P-155 | Casio CDP-120 | Yamaha P-105 | Williams Allegro (had it for two weeks)
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#2313006 - 08/08/14 02:31 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]  
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The F 130r looks brilliant. The series has come such a long way since the F110, which didn't have SuperNatural sounds or a very good keyboard (the unlamented PHA alpha II)

But this all depends if the PHAIV in the F130r is similar to the PHAIV on the HP504 and HP506.

Last edited by toddy; 08/08/14 02:34 PM.

Roland HP 302 / Samson Graphite 49 / Akai EWI

Reaper / NI K9 Ult. / Focusrite Saffire 24
W7, i7 4770, 16GB / Yamaha HS7s / HD598

Prudence is a rich ugly old maid courted by Incapacity. He who desires, but acts not, breeds pestilence.
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#2313025 - 08/08/14 03:14 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: toddy]  
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Well, according to Roland's specs, they call it:

88 keys (PHA-4 Standard Keyboard: with Escapement and Ivory Feel)

So I hope it's close!


Roland F-130R
Formerly: Yamaha P-155 | Casio CDP-120 | Yamaha P-105 | Williams Allegro (had it for two weeks)
#2313029 - 08/08/14 03:22 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]  
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Yes, me too! It would make it an excellent piano, also quite compact and good looking, at a relatively low price.


Roland HP 302 / Samson Graphite 49 / Akai EWI

Reaper / NI K9 Ult. / Focusrite Saffire 24
W7, i7 4770, 16GB / Yamaha HS7s / HD598

Prudence is a rich ugly old maid courted by Incapacity. He who desires, but acts not, breeds pestilence.
William Blake, The Marriage of Heaven & heck
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#2313092 - 08/08/14 05:02 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: toddy]  
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Originally Posted by toddy
The F 130r looks brilliant. The series has come such a long way since the F110, which didn't have SuperNatural sounds or a very good keyboard (the unlamented PHA alpha II)

But this all depends if the PHAIV in the F130r is similar to the PHAIV on the HP504 and HP506.


Its much closer in feel to ITS big brother than the previous version to its big brother. It feels very nice and has an awesome connection to the sound engine.

You will enjoy it.

Jay


Formerly in the business. Now just a piano fan.
#2313095 - 08/08/14 05:07 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: JayGVan]  
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I am totally looking forward to this. In fact, if it turns out that I get it...I will make every effort to do a video.


Roland F-130R
Formerly: Yamaha P-155 | Casio CDP-120 | Yamaha P-105 | Williams Allegro (had it for two weeks)
#2313124 - 08/08/14 06:51 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]  
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@Jay:
Can you connect a roland DP without MIDI (almost none of them have a 'normal' midi connector) to another synth or Piano??


10.000 clowns on a rainy day
#2314170 - 08/11/14 11:37 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]  
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Yup.

Use a UM-ONEmkII MIDI/USB Interface in "Tab" mode connected to the USB Port where you put a memory stick in. It'll act as if it were a traditional MIDI out.

Jay


Formerly in the business. Now just a piano fan.
#2314351 - 08/12/14 12:39 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]  
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I had the chance today to try an F-130R (current generation PHA4-Standard action) side-by-side with an F-20 (previous generation Ivory Feel-G action). There's been some discussion in this thread regarding the difference between these actions, so I'll weigh in with my opinion.

I'm one of those who likes Ivory Feel-G action (though I can acknowledge its common criticisms as valid) and I'd say that PHA4-Standard feels very similar to it. If you liked the previous generation, you'll definitely still like PHA4-Standard--if you didn't, then I'm not sure if your opinion would be likely to change. It still felt a little "sluggish" to me (a common complaint that I've read about Ivory Feel-G), but I kinda like the feeling of weight that it imparts. I think I personally prefer it over Yamaha's (Arius and early 'P' series with GHS action) and Casio's (Privia line) offerings at similar prices, but I can see how it wouldn't be everyone's cup of tea. Worth noting that I have not been able to try Kawai's actions at the sub-$1400 price points and can't offer comparative opinion there. Key-bottoming noise didn't seem significantly different from Ivory Feel-G, but I can't rule out that it may have been a bit quieter.

I like Roland's SN sounds, so no complaints there. If you've liked them or tried them on other models you can expect more of the same from the F-130R. No doubt it will sound much better through headphones than through the tiny built-in speakers.

My pedal opinion is slightly mixed. On the one hand, I love that Roland's left (soft/una corde) pedal is a continuous-state response rather than binary. As far as I know, they're the only ones doing that, and they do it across their whole lineup, RPU-3 standalone pedal unit included. I strongly dislike the binary on-off left pedal in my MP11's F-30 pedal unit, and it's disappointing that (every?) other manufacturers cut this corner. On the other hand, it felt like I had to press down pretty far before the sustain pedal began its response. Once depressed far enough to begin there was plenty of room for graduated partial-sustain playing, but it seemed to me like it took too far to get to the start of the response. Maybe someone with an inclination toward tinkering could find a way to adjust this.

If one likes the action, it seems like it would make a fine choice at its price point.

#2314460 - 08/12/14 10:21 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Starboard]  
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Hi Starboard:

I will be trying out the F-130R later this week. I've not spent much time with Roland pianos in the past. Most of my experience has been with Yamahas, the p105 and currently, the P155, both whose action I've come to dislike as being on the heavy side. The key-bottoming noise has also been an issue which I was hoping would be less with the Roland F-130R.

Since I am comparing Yamaha with the Roland, I'm hoping the difference will be more apparent to me...and most importantly -- to the positive.

I too have wanted to add the Kawai ES100 to the comparison pool, but I can't find any locally. Some folks have recommended I try some available Kawai's locally that have the same action, but I'm a little picky about that. If it's something I have to drive two hours through L.A. traffic to get to, it has to be the exact model I'd consider buying. I wound not test drive an BMW 5 series to decide whether to buy a 3 series -- and vice versa.

Going into a bit more detail on your thoughts about the F130R's action I have these questions:

1) What does everybody mean when they say it's sluggish? Do you mean heavy in comparison to an acoustic?

2) You mentioned that you prefer this type of action. Is that it helps condition your fingers?

Thanks!

Last edited by Sushi Hammer; 08/12/14 10:22 AM.

Roland F-130R
Formerly: Yamaha P-155 | Casio CDP-120 | Yamaha P-105 | Williams Allegro (had it for two weeks)
#2314654 - 08/12/14 05:49 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]  
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For me, the biggest problem with F-120 was a lack of connection between what my fingers were doing and what my ears were hearing. Something wasn't working together. I don't know if that is what people meant as sluggish but something was definitely "ish" and not in a positive way.

If F-130R doesn't have that lack of connection, I'd be really interested.

Starboard, thank you for the feedback on the pedals. It sounds promising.

I'm going to start my lesson again and I get to play on a CX-7. I have a feeling that I'm going to be upgrading around Christmas. smile

#2314670 - 08/12/14 06:31 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Sushi Hammer]  
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Originally Posted by Sushi Hammer
1) What does everybody mean when they say it's sluggish? Do you mean heavy in comparison to an acoustic?

When I used the word in quotes above, I was referring to the impression that the keys give of being slow to return to neutral position after being pressed and released, and I assume others use the word with a similar meaning. It's very easy to fool one's own senses when evaluating these kinds of subtle effects, so do take my remarks with a grain of salt--for all I know it could be a false impression of slow return imparted by the combination of key weight and various other factors. I just think Ivory Feel-G and PHA4-Standard just have a very different feel from any other digital I've yet played. It's not a bad feel, just noticeably different (and different too from the higher-end PHA4-Concert action on the HP series and RD800).

Originally Posted by Sushi Hammer
2) You mentioned that you prefer this type of action. Is that it helps condition your fingers?

I prefer it in a relative sense--if I were personally picking between digital pianos at around this price point (say $1000-$1400ish), I like the F-130R over Yamaha's Arius and Casio's Privia lines. I like Kawai's RHII action, but that doesn't appear until the $1700 range, and I haven't seen any of their lower-end models (ES100/CL26/KDP80/KDP90 all with the AHAIV-F action) in person to have an opinion on them.

Originally Posted by Sushi Hammer
Some folks have recommended I try some available Kawai's locally that have the same action, but I'm a little picky about that. If it's something I have to drive two hours through L.A. traffic to get to, it has to be the exact model I'd consider buying. I wound not test drive an BMW 5 series to decide whether to buy a 3 series -- and vice versa.

If it's as long as a two hour drive I can definitely understand not wanting to make that trip, but I'd be confident in basing my opinion of (at least as it concerns Kawai) a key action on a different model with the same spec. I had to order the MP11 blind, but the keys and sound seem just the same as the CA65/CA95/CS10 that I played in person. It can definitely inform your opinion, anyway, so if it's a feasible trip I think you would find value in it. The more first-hand experience you have, the better the choice you can make for yourself.

Please do report back here when you've tried the F130-R. I'll be curious to know what you end up thinking about it!

Last edited by Starboard; 08/12/14 11:26 PM. Reason: model number correction
#2314702 - 08/12/14 08:37 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: littlebirdblue]  
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Originally Posted by littlebirdblue
For me, the biggest problem with F-120 was a lack of connection between what my fingers were doing and what my ears were hearing. Something wasn't working together.


Woah...that's sounds like a scene from a scary movie. eek

In all seriousness...I think that's a problem with a lot of acoustic pianos I've played. grin


Roland F-130R
Formerly: Yamaha P-155 | Casio CDP-120 | Yamaha P-105 | Williams Allegro (had it for two weeks)
#2314709 - 08/12/14 08:56 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Starboard]  
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Originally Posted by Starboard
When I used the word in quotes above, I was referring to the impression that the keys give of being slow to return to neutral position after being pressed and released, and I assume others use the word with a similar meaning.

Wow I'm glad I asked. I was thinking that you perhaps meant that there was a delay between moment you hit the key and when the sound is produced.

Originally Posted by Starboard
I prefer it in a relative sense--if I were personally picking between digital pianos at around this price point (say $1000-$1400ish), I like the F-130R over Yamaha's Arius and Casio's Privia lines. I like Kawai's RHII action, but that doesn't appear until the $1700 range, and I haven't seen any of their lower-end models (ES7/CL26/KDP80/KDP90 all with the AHAIV-F action) in person to have an opinion on them.

I appreciate your elaborating on this. While my own impressions will be shaped by the collective impressions of the pianos I've played, I'm glad you mentioned some of the Yamahas and Casios I've also tried out.

Originally Posted by Starboard
Please do report back here when you've tried the F130-R. I'll be curious to know what you end up thinking about it!

Ha ha...I'm curious about what I'll be thinking about it too!

Last edited by Sushi Hammer; 08/12/14 08:57 PM.

Roland F-130R
Formerly: Yamaha P-155 | Casio CDP-120 | Yamaha P-105 | Williams Allegro (had it for two weeks)
#2314734 - 08/12/14 10:37 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Starboard]  
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Originally Posted by Starboard
I like Kawai's RHII action, but that doesn't appear until the $1700 range, and I haven't seen any of their lower-end models (ES7/CL26/KDP80/KDP90 all with the AHAIV-F action) in person to have an opinion on them.

Quick correction: The ES7 does have the RHII action - it's the ES100 that has AHAIV-F. (I think you just inadvertently typed ES7 instead of ES100, but I thought I'd make the correction in case anyone might be confused.)

#2314743 - 08/12/14 11:17 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]  
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Good catch pwl.

The ES100 and ES6 (predecessor to the ES7) both utilise the same AHA-IV F keyboard action).

Cheers,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
#2314749 - 08/12/14 11:28 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: pwl]  
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Originally Posted by pwl
Quick correction: The ES7 does have the RHII action - it's the ES100 that has AHAIV-F. (I think you just inadvertently typed ES7 instead of ES100, but I thought I'd make the correction in case anyone might be confused.)

Very right you are, and indeed, I did mean ES100 and not ES7. So many models to keep track of! Thanks for the correction--I've edited the post to clarify.

#2314951 - 08/13/14 10:49 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Starboard]  
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On YouTube, I asked Rudi, who did this great review of the F130R, the following question:

Quote
What is your opinion about the action? For the past year or so, I've been playing a Yamaha P-155 and think the action is a bit heavy. I am considering getting this Roland and I'd like your impressions of the action, especially if you've played the p155 before. Also, I'd like to know what you think of the Roland's old Ivory Feel-G vs. the new PHA4-Standard that's in the F130R.

His response was in line with my hopes and expectations:

Quote
The action is certainly improved over the ivory feel G action, it has a more direct and slightly weightier feel without being too heavy.

I agree on the P155 action being heavy, obviously it's a matter of personal opinion, I must say though that just because an action is "heavier" doesn't mean it plays better.

Just because people are looking for "fully weighted actions" doesn't mean that they need to find the heaviest action out there!

It's all about what you can achieve with it.

All in all the F130 is great piece of gear. I get to play with some serious toys at work so pretty spoilt , but I still really enjoy the F130 :-)

Hope this helps,
Cheers,
Rudi

Last edited by Sushi Hammer; 08/13/14 02:11 PM.

Roland F-130R
Formerly: Yamaha P-155 | Casio CDP-120 | Yamaha P-105 | Williams Allegro (had it for two weeks)
#2315175 - 08/13/14 09:36 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]  
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I know this this discussion is on the Roland F-130R, but I couldn't resist this. Here's can be done with F-120, the F-130R's predecessor...took me by surprise:


Last edited by Sushi Hammer; 08/15/14 05:05 PM.

Roland F-130R
Formerly: Yamaha P-155 | Casio CDP-120 | Yamaha P-105 | Williams Allegro (had it for two weeks)
#2316013 - 08/15/14 05:14 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Sushi Hammer]  
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Here's a review of the F-130 you likely have not seen until now because it was just uploaded today, 8/15/2014.



It's in German, but here's Google Translation of the page this video originally appears on.


Roland F-130R
Formerly: Yamaha P-155 | Casio CDP-120 | Yamaha P-105 | Williams Allegro (had it for two weeks)
#2316047 - 08/15/14 06:58 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Starboard]  
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Thanks for the review, Starboard! The only hands-on opinion so far (bar Roland employees).

I don't feel the demos that we see on YouTube from retailers are much use, because they're totally uncritical and don't evaluate the product alongside others in its class, which is what you need when making a buying decision. They're basically adverts, and certainly shouldn't be called "reviews".

Originally Posted by Starboard
I'm one of those who likes Ivory Feel-G action (though I can acknowledge its common criticisms as valid) and I'd say that PHA4-Standard feels very similar to it.

Ooh... that's a bit disappointing. The F130R has some very welcome features like rhythm accompaniment and a GM soundset, but the main thing holding back the F120, IMO, was the sub-par action. If that hasn't changed much, that's most of the anticipated benefit of the F130R out the window. frown

I don't suppose anyone has diagrams or photos of the F130R action, and similar for the Ivory-Feel G? I can't find any for either action online. It would be good to see what's supposed to have changed.


Kawai CA95 / Steinberg UR22 / Sony MDR-7506 / Pianoteq Stage + Grotrian / Galaxy Vintage D / CFX Lite
In the loft: Roland FP3 / Tannoy Reveal Active / K&M 18810
#2316422 - 08/17/14 12:31 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: lolatu]  
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Quote
Ooh... that's a bit disappointing. The F130R has some very welcome features like rhythm accompaniment and a GM soundset, but the main thing holding back the F120, IMO, was the sub-par action. If that hasn't changed much, that's most of the anticipated benefit of the F130R out the window. frown

But keep in mind what Starboard later said in reply to my further probing it the new action that is the F-130R:
Quote
I prefer it in a relative sense--if I were personally picking between digital pianos at around this price point (say $1000-$1400ish), I like the F-130R over Yamaha's Arius and Casio's Privia lines. I like Kawai's RHII action, but that doesn't appear until the $1700 range, and I haven't seen any of their lower-end models (ES7/CL26/KDP80/KDP90 all with the AHAIV-F action) in person to have an opinion on them.

At this point, because the F-130r is not widely avaialble for people to test -- so we're desperately clinging on all that's being said.

But I've pretty much reach every review and every opinion out there. I've watched and listened to every video of someone playing it. Considering all top digital keyboards under $2000, I've come to the conclusion that this is the best successor to my Yamaha P-155.

I have decided to purchase it, and I'm expecting to pick it up early this coming week. Sam Ash offers to take it back with 30 days, if I don't like, so I'm covered.


Roland F-130R
Formerly: Yamaha P-155 | Casio CDP-120 | Yamaha P-105 | Williams Allegro (had it for two weeks)
#2316424 - 08/17/14 12:41 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: lolatu]  
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Quote
I don't feel the demos that we see on YouTube from retailers are much use, because they're totally uncritical and don't evaluate the product alongside others in its class, which is what you need when making a buying decision. They're basically adverts, and certainly shouldn't be called "reviews".

I think there are exceptions to that:
this Polish site offers a very detailed critique with both positives and negatives.

As well, they've got individual sound samples of: Damper Resonance, String Resonance, Accompaniment tracks, and 3d Ambiance.

As well I think Tim at AZ is pretty much forthright about his likes and dislikes.


Roland F-130R
Formerly: Yamaha P-155 | Casio CDP-120 | Yamaha P-105 | Williams Allegro (had it for two weeks)
#2316572 - 08/17/14 01:40 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: JayGVan]  
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Originally Posted by Jay Roland
Yup.

Use a UM-ONEmkII MIDI/USB Interface in "Tab" mode connected to the USB Port where you put a memory stick in. It'll act as if it were a traditional MIDI out.

Jay

Hi Jay, thanks for your answer !!
Will this work also in the other direction ?? So if I want to use the sound of a roland, played from another keyboard ??


10.000 clowns on a rainy day
#2318144 - 08/21/14 01:35 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Phlox]  
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Just a quick update:

Shipment of my F-130R is delayed. I'm hoping to get it early next week.

Last edited by Sushi Hammer; 08/27/14 12:53 PM.

Roland F-130R
Formerly: Yamaha P-155 | Casio CDP-120 | Yamaha P-105 | Williams Allegro (had it for two weeks)
#2318189 - 08/21/14 03:08 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]  
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When you get it, bear in mind we need to know about the key actions since there is a dearth of info on that. So you have my permission to delve in there and reveal all to the camera whilst possibly scratching that beautiful red finish thereby invalidating the guarantee. . .:)

Have fun. I,m sure you'll enjoy it!

Last edited by peterws; 08/21/14 03:20 PM.

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#2318589 - 08/22/14 01:33 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]  
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Yes, the action is one of the issues I've been most obsessed about, given that the action for my Yamaha p155 has been one of my biggest complaints.

So yes, I give as in-depth a report about it as I can -- once I get it.


Roland F-130R
Formerly: Yamaha P-155 | Casio CDP-120 | Yamaha P-105 | Williams Allegro (had it for two weeks)
#2320453 - 08/27/14 01:14 AM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Sushi Hammer]  
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1
tiga Offline
Junior Member
tiga  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1
Originally Posted by Sushi Hammer
Just a quick update:

Shipment of my F-103R is delayed. I'm hoping to get it early next week.
just to clarifiy.... did you buy F-103R or F-130R ?

#2320667 - 08/27/14 01:06 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: tiga]  
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 66
Sushi Hammer Offline
Full Member
Sushi Hammer  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 66
Los Angeles
F-130R. Typo corrected.

Update: A couple days ago I was informed that tracking said it would arrive yesterday 8/26 to my local Sam Ash.

Breathlessly awaiting confirmation.

While product weight is listed as 76 lbs, delivery rate is close to 100 lbs. Thus, slow freight via Roadway.

Order was placed August 11. Unbelievable. The one thing that it has over over purchasing from Amazon (free shipping for Prime Members) is that I can return it to Sam Ash with 30 days for full refund. I'd rather do that than go through the hassle of shipping it back, as unlikely that would be.

Last edited by Sushi Hammer; 08/27/14 01:08 PM.

Roland F-130R
Formerly: Yamaha P-155 | Casio CDP-120 | Yamaha P-105 | Williams Allegro (had it for two weeks)
#2320674 - 08/27/14 01:18 PM Re: Opinions on Roland F130R [Re: Laerai]  
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 422
petes1 Offline
Full Member
petes1  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 422
The F130R looks to be similar to my RD800, but with the addition of speakers and an attached stand. I have recently obtained my RD800 and absolutely adore it. Congrats on your purchase and please let us know what you think of your keyboard after you put it through its paces!


Keys: Yamaha GC2, Casio Privia PX-3, Roland RD800, Alesis VI61, Pianoteq 6.0
My motto: Play and Let Play!
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