2022 our 25th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Who's Online Now
61 members (Carey, beeboss, Chris B, Cheeeeee, CharlesXX, Aleks_MG, accordeur, brdwyguy, 11 invisible), 1,910 guests, and 304 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 2 of 2 1 2
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,206
R

Silver Supporter until April 24 2014
2000 Post Club Member
Offline

Silver Supporter until April 24 2014
2000 Post Club Member
R
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,206
Originally Posted by Brian Lucas
.... I tend to need to set my touch harder, with the keyboard getting too loud too fast, the opposite problem than what you mentioned. ......


I tend to do this also. It's just my personal opinion. I get lots of dynamic range out of my software piano and monitors. My teacher often commented on how softly I play.
To the OP.... For now, if I were you. I'd just use a good pair of headphones. You can also download pianoteq free trial version. It will give you an idea of better control and dynamic range. I think this would be a big step above what you're trying to do with your keyboard. Also, I don't know how good your keyboards midi generator is?


Ron
Your brain is a sponge. Keep it wet. Mary Gae George
The focus of your personal practice is discipline. Not numbers. Scott Sonnon
[Linked Image][Linked Image]
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 8,134
C
8000 Post Club Member
Offline
8000 Post Club Member
C
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 8,134
Originally Posted by TheodorN
Just wondering, but is it possible that speaker volume is not the only issue for someone who wants to learn to play delicately, or over the whole dynamic range? I mean, does the Yamaha P105 have enough dynamic range (or velocity layers, I think the technical term is for that?)

I ask because I had the P85, which I understand is quite similar to the P105, and one of it's predecessors, though the P95 came in between. The Yamaha P85 was very limited dynamically, you just couldn't get it to go all the way up in loudness/power. I know the P105 is an improvement, but is it an improvement what dynamic range concerns?


From the DPBSD test on the P105:

Quote
. Dynamic range ~61.5dB (vel=1:127).


61.5 dB is perfectly OK for dynamic range on a DP. For comparison, the Roland FP-7F tests at 47 dB. The Roland 700NX tests at 47.7 dB. The Galaxy "Vintage D" tests at 55 dB.

So there may be problems with the P105, but "limited dynamic range" isn't one of them.

. Charles


. Charles
---------------------------
PX-350 / Roland Gaia / Pianoteq
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,908
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,908
Thank you Charles, then the P105 is a big step up from the P85. I know how the latter felt, and how frustrated I was trying unsuccessfully to get those higher expressive notes out of it.

Still I'm surprised that the entry level Yamaha P105 can go louder than Roland FP-7F. I thought this model of Roland would be miles ahead of this particular Yamaha.

Last edited by TheodorN; 07/24/14 10:45 AM.

Me on YouTube

Casio PX-5S. Garritan CFX, Production Grand 2 Gold, Concert Grand LE, AcousticSamples C7, some Sampletekks. Pianoteq 8 Std (Blüthner, SteinGraeber, NY/HB Steinway D).
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 2,182
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 2,182
I checked my notes that I made while trying to adjust the volume of my CN34 to match my Teacher's C3.

At Forte, middle C read 91.0 dB, at Piano it measured 69.5 dB.

I know the above discussion was referring to dynamic range; this is simply how loud my teacher's C3 measured when I played these two notes. Of course, different folks will hit the key slightly differently than I do.


Yamaha C2X | Yamaha M500-F
Groucho Marx: "Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others."
Curriculum: Faber Developing Artist (Book 3)
Current: German Dance in D Major (Haydn) (OF); Melody (Schumann) (OF)
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 413
S
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
S
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 413
Originally Posted by Moonflow
Hi,

I have just started piano 2 weeks ago and bought myself a Yamaha P-105 digital piano.

I wanted to know what are the recommended volume for this digital piano as I wish to set it very close to an acoustic in order to train effectively.

Appreciate if you could advise on the volume for both speaker and headphone.


I have a 155 and I play on max volume. It's close to an acoustic this way. Remember tho, lots of loud loud loud play can mess up the terrible speakers. Maybe about 3/4 of the way till you get better at dynamics.


"Doesn't practicing on the piano suck?!?!"
"The joy is in the practicing. It's like relationships. Yeah, orgasms are awesome, but you can't make love to someone who you have no relationship with!"
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,654
8

Gold Supporter until July 22 2015
1000 Post Club Member
Offline

Gold Supporter until July 22 2015
1000 Post Club Member
8
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,654
Originally Posted by Sweet06
I have a 155 and I play on max volume. It's close to an acoustic this way. Remember tho, lots of loud loud loud play can mess up the terrible speakers. Maybe about 3/4 of the way till you get better at dynamics.


You hit it on the nail. The fact that most of us don't set our DP at 100% is precisely for this important reason. Otherwise, if you only care about matching volume levels, then 100% is closer. However, recall I said that the acoustic is often too loud? Why insist on playing an instrument that's too loud and hurt your hearing when you have the ability to turn it down? That's why most people end up at 80% or 75%. Obviously if you turn it down to 50%, you are doing so because dynamics is no longer important for what you happened to be doing, say Hanon. If you're practicing music, any less than 75% would not be a good idea except when you are learning a very difficult forte phrase and repeating it 100 times, then it may not be a bad idea to set it to 50% and pound the keys and save your hearing. I find this particularly helpful with a digital because on an acoustic, you generally do give up too soon because it is very hard to take the assault of an acoustic piano at forte repeating a single forte phrase for 30 minutes. You would have hearing loss / damage. In general, the reason I practice on a digital is almost always because I don't have to practice at 100%. If I'm practicing something mostly soft or if a piece is marked p to mp with only few mf or f measures, then by all means, 100% on the volume. It is important to have the ability to play softly with the instrument at 100%. Remember that the acoustic piano's volume is ALWAYS at 100%.

Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,048
Z
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Z
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,048
Originally Posted by TheodorN
Still I'm surprised that the entry level Yamaha P105 can go louder than Roland FP-7F. I thought this model of Roland would be miles ahead of this particular Yamaha.
I suspect that dynamic range is less critical than the sound intensity range and is affected by the room size and the proximity of the speakers to the ears.

When you play a real acoustic piano louder the sound has greater intensity. I suspect this is why acoustic pianos are valued more highly than digitals for learning on. They have a greater range of intensity that is also a natural progression and it's accompanied by tangible sound waves generated by several hundred pounds of iron, steel and wood as opposed to the paper thin cones of speakers.

Earlier and cheaper digital pianos use a limited number of sound samples, from around four (say, P, MF, F and FF). Each one is used with different playback levels within its range for a certain level of measured key press. Also the samples may be taken from only a few keys whose pitch is modified to simulate a range of pitches.

I believe high-end Yamaha and Kawai models use a wider dynamic range for their sample source but modify them for playback to give the impression of greater intensity for each volume level. I know that Kawai has sampled all 88 keys, though I don't know at how many dynamic levels, but they have modified them to simulate a wide enough range for me. Roland uses modelling rather than sampling to generate a more authentic range of intensities to match the dynamic levels. I suspect this is a more natural experience providing the synthetic nature of the sound doesn't get in the way. Were it not for the keyboard and soundboard of my own Kawai CA95 I'd have been very happy with a Roland.

My own dp is a hybrid with a real soundboard (transducer driven) and a total of 135 watts of power output - enough that it resonates through my whole body. It has a wide enough palette that I can move easily from digital to acoustic without having to make any noticeable changes to the way I play. I can forget that it's a digital and the playing experience is enough that I don't foresee any reason to ever own an acoustic again in my home; their advantages, for me, are outweighed by their cost, space, care and limitations. I play almost exclusively classical.

I played on acoustic pianos for many years, including seven or eight years of lessons, before I ever even heard a digital piano but once tried, it became a staple tool and was used side by side with a couple of acoustics for a few years. I cannot, therefore, say how useful a digital is for learning on if there is no experience of playing a real acoustic. My son, however, has only played on the Kawai and has no trouble controlling the dynamic range well enough for his time playing. I insist on having the piano at full volume when not using headphones (some dp's cannot accommodate full volume on speakers) and I limit (rather than discourage) his use of headphones.

I do believe high-end digitals offer a better experience than low-end acoustics but I don't think beginners without acoustic experience are necessarily better off. A P105 only has 2 x 7 watts power output, which is hopelessly inadequate for simulating an acoustic, but may be acceptable for the player with sufficient experience on an acoustic coupled with a vivid imagination. Headphones may be even better here for bringing out the range of sound intensity - assuming the instrument is sufficient in that department.



Richard
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,654
8

Gold Supporter until July 22 2015
1000 Post Club Member
Offline

Gold Supporter until July 22 2015
1000 Post Club Member
8
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,654
Originally Posted by zrtf90
A P105 only has 2 x 7 watts power output, which is hopelessly inadequate for simulating an acoustic, but may be acceptable for the player with sufficient experience on an acoustic coupled with a vivid imagination.


thumb laugh

Page 2 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Bart K, platuser 

Link Copied to Clipboard
What's Hot!!
Piano World Has Been Sold!
--------------------
Forums RULES, Terms of Service & HELP
(updated 06/06/2022)
---------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
(ad)
(ad)
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Recommended Songs for Beginners
by FreddyM - 04/16/24 03:20 PM
New DP for a 10 year old
by peelaaa - 04/16/24 02:47 PM
Estonia 1990
by Iberia - 04/16/24 11:01 AM
Very Cheap Piano?
by Tweedpipe - 04/16/24 10:13 AM
Practical Meaning of SMP
by rneedle - 04/16/24 09:57 AM
Forum Statistics
Forums43
Topics223,392
Posts3,349,302
Members111,634
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010

Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations |

Advertise on Piano World
| Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map


Copyright © VerticalScope Inc. All Rights Reserved.
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community.