Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.5 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
What's Hot!!
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(ad)
Piano Tuning
How to Tune Pianos
(125ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Piano Buyer Guide
Piano Buyer Spring 2017
(ad)
4th Finger Enigma Resolved!
Schumann's 4th Finger Enigma Resolved!
Who's Online Now
92 registered members (accordeur, anamnesis, Agent88, andrea monza, anotherscott, 28 invisible), 1,488 guests, and 2 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 3 of 3 1 2 3
#2306104 - 07/23/14 06:39 PM Re: That last 10% [Re: gooddog]  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 5,730
Brendan Offline
Brendan  Offline


Joined: May 2001
Posts: 5,730
McAllen, TX
Originally Posted by gooddog
I opened this topic some time ago and it got side-tracked so I'm trying again.

What does one have to do to make our music stand out and sound polished and beautiful? What skills does a professional pianist have that a gifted amateur does not? How do we attain that last 10% that makes the music so wonderful. What steps do we need to take to achieve this level of playing?

I am looking for helpful answers beyond the obvious: "practice".


Long story short: the last 10% happens onstage. Prepare to the max (record yourself, do lots of slow prax, plan out your interpretation, etc.), but also be prepared to let it all go, because what you're after will never happen in a practice room or at home.

(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
#2306110 - 07/23/14 06:50 PM Re: That last 10% [Re: Brendan]  
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,511
gooddog Offline
5000 Post Club Member
gooddog  Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,511
Seattle area, WA
Originally Posted by Brendan
Originally Posted by gooddog
I opened this topic some time ago and it got side-tracked so I'm trying again.

What does one have to do to make our music stand out and sound polished and beautiful? What skills does a professional pianist have that a gifted amateur does not? How do we attain that last 10% that makes the music so wonderful. What steps do we need to take to achieve this level of playing?

I am looking for helpful answers beyond the obvious: "practice".


Long story short: the last 10% happens onstage. Prepare to the max (record yourself, do lots of slow prax, plan out your interpretation, etc.), but also be prepared to let it all go, because what you're after will never happen in a practice room or at home.
Can you please elaborate more? What is it that happens on stage?


Best regards,

Deborah
#2306112 - 07/23/14 06:52 PM Re: That last 10% [Re: gooddog]  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 3,576
Hakki Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Hakki  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 3,576
If you haven't done so yet, you might enter amateur competitions.
I am sure, by the end of your third competiton that last bit will drop to 5%.

#2306116 - 07/23/14 07:02 PM Re: That last 10% [Re: Hakki]  
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,511
gooddog Offline
5000 Post Club Member
gooddog  Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,511
Seattle area, WA
Originally Posted by Hakki
If you haven't done so yet, you might enter amateur competitions.
I am sure, by the end of your third competition that last bit will drop to 5%.
Ha Ha! That's both scary and encouraging. It's something I've been considering.


Best regards,

Deborah
(ad ) MusicNotes.com
sheet music search
#2306127 - 07/23/14 07:15 PM Re: That last 10% [Re: gooddog]  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 3,576
Hakki Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Hakki  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 3,576
Originally Posted by gooddog
Originally Posted by Hakki
If you haven't done so yet, you might enter amateur competitions.
I am sure, by the end of your third competition that last bit will drop to 5%.
Ha Ha! That's both scary and encouraging. It's something I've been considering.


Why not start with the Cliburn Video Contest?

#2306158 - 07/23/14 08:18 PM Re: That last 10% [Re: gooddog]  
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,334
Michael Sayers Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Michael Sayers  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,334
Stockholms län, Sverige
Originally Posted by gooddog
Originally Posted by Brendan
Originally Posted by gooddog
I opened this topic some time ago and it got side-tracked so I'm trying again.

What does one have to do to make our music stand out and sound polished and beautiful? What skills does a professional pianist have that a gifted amateur does not? How do we attain that last 10% that makes the music so wonderful. What steps do we need to take to achieve this level of playing?

I am looking for helpful answers beyond the obvious: "practice".


Long story short: the last 10% happens onstage. Prepare to the max (record yourself, do lots of slow prax, plan out your interpretation, etc.), but also be prepared to let it all go, because what you're after will never happen in a practice room or at home.
Can you please elaborate more? What is it that happens on stage?

Performers tend to show the widest range of colours and effects in front of a live audience. I don't know what Brendan's experience of it is, but in my experience the tremendous stress, risk and pressure make every moment extremely intense resulting in more strength and contrast of expression in the desire to transport the audience, and also in unrelenting stamina of concentration.

#2306163 - 07/23/14 08:30 PM Re: That last 10% [Re: gooddog]  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 22,660
pianoloverus Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
pianoloverus  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 22,660
New York City
Originally Posted by gooddog
Unfortunately, you are right. Besides all the technical things we need to do to make a performance special, we always have to consider available time, something many of us do not have. I find myself thinking, "Gee, if I could play this 500 times more, it would be perfect." That's tough to do with a full time job and only 1 to 2 hours of practice time a day.[Linked Image]
It might be perfect in terms of what you want to do with the piece, but that doesn't mean it would necessarily even approach(it could be a lot more than 10% away from) a good professional performance.

The pro's musical understanding is in general eons beyond the amateur's understanding. See my earlier post showing how the best pianists giving master classes often show conservatory graduates (who themselves are light years beyond most amateurs)major musical misunderstandings in their playing.

Last edited by pianoloverus; 07/23/14 08:52 PM.
#2306169 - 07/23/14 08:48 PM Re: That last 10% [Re: pianoloverus]  
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,511
gooddog Offline
5000 Post Club Member
gooddog  Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,511
Seattle area, WA
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by gooddog
Unfortunately, you are right. Besides all the technical things we need to do to make a performance special, we always have to consider available time, something many of us do not have. I find myself thinking, "Gee, if I could play this 500 times more, it would be perfect." That's tough to do with a full time job and only 1 to 2 hours of practice time a day.[Linked Image]
It might be perfect in terms of what you want to do with the piece, but that doesn't mean it would necessarily even approach(it could be a lot more than 10% away from) a good professional performance.

The pro's musical understanding is in general eons beyond the amateur's understanding. See my earlier post showing how the best pianists giving master classes often show conservatory graduates (who themselves are light years beyond most amateurs)major musical misunderstandings in their playing.
Oh sure, I agree. The purpose of this thread is an attempt to find the tools to bridge that gap.


Best regards,

Deborah
#2306173 - 07/23/14 09:00 PM Re: That last 10% [Re: gooddog]  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 22,660
pianoloverus Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
pianoloverus  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 22,660
New York City
Originally Posted by gooddog
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by gooddog
Unfortunately, you are right. Besides all the technical things we need to do to make a performance special, we always have to consider available time, something many of us do not have. I find myself thinking, "Gee, if I could play this 500 times more, it would be perfect." That's tough to do with a full time job and only 1 to 2 hours of practice time a day.[Linked Image]
It might be perfect in terms of what you want to do with the piece, but that doesn't mean it would necessarily even approach(it could be a lot more than 10% away from) a good professional performance.

The pro's musical understanding is in general eons beyond the amateur's understanding. See my earlier post showing how the best pianists giving master classes often show conservatory graduates (who themselves are light years beyond most amateurs)major musical misunderstandings in their playing.
Oh sure, I agree. The purpose of this thread is an attempt to find the tools to bridge that gap.
It's not one or ten tools. It's many years of studying with the best teachers and]then practicing the correct things for many hours. It's also natural talent for learning/understanding/figuring out musical and technical ideas quickly. It's being able to apply what a good teacher tells you about one piece to another piece.

#2306182 - 07/23/14 09:23 PM Re: That last 10% [Re: gooddog]  
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,634
bennevis Online content
9000 Post Club Member
bennevis  Online Content
9000 Post Club Member

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,634
Originally Posted by gooddog
Originally Posted by Brendan
Originally Posted by gooddog
I opened this topic some time ago and it got side-tracked so I'm trying again.

What does one have to do to make our music stand out and sound polished and beautiful? What skills does a professional pianist have that a gifted amateur does not? How do we attain that last 10% that makes the music so wonderful. What steps do we need to take to achieve this level of playing?

I am looking for helpful answers beyond the obvious: "practice".


Long story short: the last 10% happens onstage. Prepare to the max (record yourself, do lots of slow prax, plan out your interpretation, etc.), but also be prepared to let it all go, because what you're after will never happen in a practice room or at home.
Can you please elaborate more? What is it that happens on stage?

For professionals and those preparing for the world stage, the live performance is where it's at - there're all the thrills (and spills grin) that are impossible to replicate on a home recording, or when playing for friends and family. (Not so sure about competitions, where you have judges to impress, which might just stifle your creative juices if you're wary of doing anything too wayward).

All that is assuming, of course, that you don't suffer from performance anxiety. Personally, I found my own route, by playing for non-musical audiences, when my nerves don't threaten to overwhelm me (which they would, if I knew there was someone - anyone - in the audience who knows the music well). There's definitely an extra edge, a frisson, to my playing then, and a spontaneity and even abandon, that's impossible to recreate at any other time: I want to show the audience what it is I love about the music, and why I love to play the piano, and to that end, risk-taking and 'rediscovery' comes to the fore.

BTW, to see (hear) what I mean, listen to Richter's Pictures via the link I put on the other thread, and compare that live performance - full of risk-taking, some of which barely come off - to his studio performance (which sounds earthbound in comparison) from around the same time, which you can also find on YouTube.


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
#2306491 - 07/24/14 02:23 PM Re: That last 10% [Re: gooddog]  
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,671
RonaldSteinway Offline
1000 Post Club Member
RonaldSteinway  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,671
see below….a more concise version.

#2306513 - 07/24/14 02:54 PM Re: That last 10% [Re: gooddog]  
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 4,169
beet31425 Offline
4000 Post Club Member
beet31425  Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 4,169
Bay Area, CA
Over the last several years, I've gotten most of my music only to that 90% level, but I've gotten two pieces (Chopin first Scherzo, Bach first Partita) a little bit further... let's say to 95% (whatever that means). The difference? Those were the pieces I kept working on a long time, far beyond the point where they started to feel good. And those were the pieces I performed several times for different groups of people.

So it takes time-- not just the number of hours spent practicing, but many months spent living with the piece after it's been "learned". And, as others have mentioned, it takes performing. That's what really cements the relationship.

-J


Beethoven op.110, Chopin op.27/2, Liszt Vallée d'Obermann
#2306525 - 07/24/14 03:10 PM Re: That last 10% [Re: gooddog]  
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,671
RonaldSteinway Offline
1000 Post Club Member
RonaldSteinway  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,671
The phases of successful performances:

1. Conquer the piece (really understand the piece inside out, and practice till everything feels easy)
2. Conquer the piano (get very comfortable with the piano that we are going to use on the stage)
3. Conquer the audience (able to express well in front of audiences obtained through years of experiences playing in front of live audiences)

Say, we (amateur pianists) have achieved 90% preparation on the piece.
90% comfort level with the piano on the stage, and 90% on the ability to perform well in front of audience. The result will be 90%x90%x90% = 72%.

Yet, professionals know the piece really well (maybe even 100%), they have the opportunity to practice on the piano that is on the stage before they perform (97%), and they had done public performance since they were little kids add a little nervous factor (95%). Therefore, their result is 100%x97%x95%=92%.

No wonder, we, real amateurs, cannot perform like them.


Page 3 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  Brendan, Kreisler 

Piano Acc. & Gift Items in
Piano World's Online Store
In PianoSupplies.com ,(a division of Piano World)
our online store for piano and music gifts and accessories, Digital Piano Dolly, party goods, tuning equipment, piano moving equipment, benches, lamps Caster Cups and more.


Free Shipping* on Jansen Artist Piano Benches, Cocoweb Piano Lamps, Hidrau Hydraulic Piano Benches
(*free shipping within contiguous U.S. only)
(ad)
Pearl River & Ritmuller
Pearl River Pianos
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq 6 Out now
(ad)
Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restorations and sales
ad
Pierce Piano Atlas


New Topics - Multiple Forums
Climate in London
by David-G. 10/19/17 07:30 PM
Realtek ASIO. Anyone used it?
by Marcos Daniel. 10/19/17 04:35 PM
Damper lift adjustment
by Beemer. 10/19/17 03:56 PM
Forum Statistics
Forums44
Topics182,381
Posts2,665,749
Members88,990
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Check It Out!
There's a lot more to Piano World than just the forums.
Click Here to
Explore The Rest of Piano World!!
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2017 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0