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#2306355 - 07/24/14 08:53 AM Visited Yamaha's Flagship Store Today  
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biasa199 Offline
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I visited Yamaha's flagship store today (located in Ginza, Tokyo), and was fortunate enough to try their C1X that was on display. It was hands down the best grand I've played so far. It was very responsive (faster than all the Steinways I've played). It had a medium touch to it, and it sounded so perfect that I thought it was a digital piano. Yamaha did a wonderful job prepping it, and it was a joy to play. Unfortunately, I only got to play one song (all visitors were escorted out because somebody [important?] was sampling every single piano in the store). The price tag on the C1X was only $15,500, which is pretty darn cheap (they are sold for about $30,000 according to a couple of sites I've looked at). I was sad to hear that they only deliver/ship to Japan, so I guess delivery to the US is out of the question :P

I'll probably be returning there tomorrow. I hope to sample a few more instruments and ask a few questions. Their store is huge and includes not only pianos but violins, saxophones, trumpets, etc,. Any questions do you think I should ask?

Last edited by biasa199; 07/24/14 08:55 AM.
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#2306360 - 07/24/14 09:00 AM Re: Visited Yamaha's Flagship Store Today [Re: biasa199]  
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malkin Offline
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Too bad they didn't let you listen to the "important" visitor playing the pianos!


Having power is not nearly as important as what you choose to do with it.
– Roald Dahl

#2306362 - 07/24/14 09:04 AM Re: Visited Yamaha's Flagship Store Today [Re: biasa199]  
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BrianDX Offline
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I have been there myself several times over the years, but not since my piano education adventures started almost a year ago.

I have a new C2X in my home and love it. Without getting into the whole "what I paid for my C2X" firestorm again, I can tell you that you are not going to find a C1X at a U.S. dealer for $16K or below.

The main issue is that virtually no dealer in the U.S. carries the C1X in stock. You will get a much better deal value-wise starting with a C2X. Most Yamaha dealers have at least one in stock, and most likely on the showroom floor.

P.S. For those in this forum: Even if you are not a Yamaha fan per se, if you ever find yourself in Tokyo a visit to Ginza (and this store) should be considered a "must" for music lovers. smile




Yamaha C2X | Yamaha M500-F
Groucho: "The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made."
Curriculum: Faber PA Level 5; Faber DA Book 3
Current: St. Anthony's Chorale (Haydn) (AR); Fanfare on America (Trad.) (AR);
#2306363 - 07/24/14 09:05 AM Re: Visited Yamaha's Flagship Store Today [Re: biasa199]  
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biasa199 Offline
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Originally Posted by malkin
Too bad they didn't let you listen to the "important" visitor playing the pianos!


Hehe. I actually came back a few minutes later just to listen to her play. It sounded like she was a jazz musician. It made me wonder why Yamaha has a soundproof room in the back titled "piano sampling room", and why they didn't use it. They instead decided that they were going to make all the other visitors (3 families I believe) go away.

Oh, also, they had a couple of Bosendorfers in their showroom, which I thought was pretty interesting. Anybody have an idea as to why they would do this?

--

Originally Posted by BrianDX
I have been there myself several times over the years, but not since my piano education adventures started almost a year ago.

I have a new C2X in my home and love it. Without getting into the whole "what I paid for my C2X" firestorm again, I can tell you that you are not going to find a C1X at a U.S. dealer for $16K or below.

The main issue is that virtually no dealer in the U.S. carries the C1X in stock. You will get a much better deal value-wise starting with a C2X. Most Yamaha dealers have at least one in stock, and most likely on the showroom floor.

P.S. For those in this forum: Even if you are not a Yamaha fan per se, if you ever find yourself in Tokyo a visit to Ginza (and this store) should be considered a "must" for music lovers. smile


Haha. I'm not much of a Yamaha fan either, but I was pleasantly surprised at their store and how well the piano was prepped.

Last edited by biasa199; 07/24/14 09:07 AM.
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#2306365 - 07/24/14 09:07 AM Re: Visited Yamaha's Flagship Store Today [Re: biasa199]  
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BrianDX Offline
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They own Bosendorfer...


Yamaha C2X | Yamaha M500-F
Groucho: "The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made."
Curriculum: Faber PA Level 5; Faber DA Book 3
Current: St. Anthony's Chorale (Haydn) (AR); Fanfare on America (Trad.) (AR);
#2306368 - 07/24/14 09:08 AM Re: Visited Yamaha's Flagship Store Today [Re: BrianDX]  
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biasa199 Offline
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Originally Posted by BrianDX
They own Bosendorfer...


Oh wow. I didn't know that. I guess I learned something new today. Thanks Brian. smile

#2306370 - 07/24/14 09:11 AM Re: Visited Yamaha's Flagship Store Today [Re: biasa199]  
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BrianDX Offline
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NP. Just be be clear, they "own" Bosendorfer but don't "interfere" with their operations I believe...


Yamaha C2X | Yamaha M500-F
Groucho: "The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made."
Curriculum: Faber PA Level 5; Faber DA Book 3
Current: St. Anthony's Chorale (Haydn) (AR); Fanfare on America (Trad.) (AR);
#2306384 - 07/24/14 09:42 AM Re: Visited Yamaha's Flagship Store Today [Re: biasa199]  
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Originally Posted by biasa199
... and it sounded so perfect that I thought it was a digital piano.

This statement makes me weep, and not with joy.


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
#2306391 - 07/24/14 09:51 AM Re: Visited Yamaha's Flagship Store Today [Re: Minnesota Marty]  
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BrianDX Offline
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I decided to let that one go.... shocked


Yamaha C2X | Yamaha M500-F
Groucho: "The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made."
Curriculum: Faber PA Level 5; Faber DA Book 3
Current: St. Anthony's Chorale (Haydn) (AR); Fanfare on America (Trad.) (AR);
#2306394 - 07/24/14 09:57 AM Re: Visited Yamaha's Flagship Store Today [Re: Minnesota Marty]  
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Originally Posted by Minnesota Marty
Originally Posted by biasa199
... and it sounded so perfect that I thought it was a digital piano.

This statement makes me weep, and not with joy.


Sorry. I guess I worded it wrong? By perfect, I mean that it perfectly replicated the signature Yamaha tone that I came to love in their samples.

#2306401 - 07/24/14 10:24 AM Re: Visited Yamaha's Flagship Store Today [Re: biasa199]  
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Minnesota Marty Offline

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Biasa,

There are many of us who cringe at the thought of a digital becoming the hallmark of what a piano should be. To us, the comparison is totally backwards.

Comparing 'the real thing' to 'sampled sounds' means that the standards have been lowered to accept imitation as the goal and norm.


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
#2306406 - 07/24/14 10:38 AM Re: Visited Yamaha's Flagship Store Today [Re: biasa199]  
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Biasa199,
Do you prefer the CX1, (C1X?), you played to any digital piano?


In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible.
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#2306433 - 07/24/14 11:38 AM Re: Visited Yamaha's Flagship Store Today [Re: Ed McMorrow, RPT]  
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We stock the C1,2 3 and 7 silent in the CX series. The C1X has sold well beyond our projections and is second to C3X sales. I attribute this to this piano performing well beyond its size having some very good players with size issues in townhomes and condos. In the previous C series we generally sold C1 on special order only but noticed a significant difference in the CX version.


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#2306440 - 07/24/14 12:10 PM Re: Visited Yamaha's Flagship Store Today [Re: biasa199]  
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Originally Posted by biasa199
I'll probably be returning there tomorrow. I hope to sample a few more instruments and ask a few questions. Their store is huge and includes not only pianos but violins, saxophones, trumpets, etc,. Any questions do you think I should ask?

Check out the music store, it is huge and has music that doesn't get published in the US. I got some fun duets while I was there.


Poetry is rhythm
#2306441 - 07/24/14 12:18 PM Re: Visited Yamaha's Flagship Store Today [Re: BrianDX]  
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Originally Posted by BrianDX
NP. Just be be clear, they "own" Bosendorfer but don't "interfere" with their operations I believe...
Yamaha bought the Bösendorfer company a few years ago, and then moved everything/everyone out of the old factory in the city [where they had been for c.130 years]; they are now doing the entire production in a city about 30mins away from Vienna. Artists used to have a much stronger connection/influence on the piano production and routinely visited the factory--since it was right there where they were coming to perform; this doesn't happen as much anymore since the factory is so far away from the action.

This has, indeed, interfered with the culture and connection between artists and piano-builders/concert-technicians. cry cursing


Masters degree in piano technology, +factory(s) training, etc., blah, blah, yada, yada, yada...[uncensored break-out in song]..."it don't mean a thing, if you aint got that swing."
--Klavierbaukuenstler des Erwachens--
Email: klavierbaukuenstler@gmail.com
#2306454 - 07/24/14 01:01 PM Re: Visited Yamaha's Flagship Store Today [Re: biasa199]  
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Originally Posted by biasa199
Originally Posted by Minnesota Marty
Originally Posted by biasa199
... and it sounded so perfect that I thought it was a digital piano.

This statement makes me weep, and not with joy.


Sorry. I guess I worded it wrong? By perfect, I mean that it perfectly replicated the signature Yamaha tone that I came to love in their samples.


Yes it made me weep too. I worry that pianos will be made "too" good and lose their soul, although several people have told me it won't happen.

The clarification made me weep too, if biasa199 is referring to digital samples. I hope acoustic pianos are not starting to be judged by how well they mimic the digital samples - samples that are made from an acoustic for the express purpose of mimicking the acoustic... makes my head spin.

#2306458 - 07/24/14 01:05 PM Re: Visited Yamaha's Flagship Store Today [Re: BrianDX]  
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Originally Posted by BrianDX


The main issue is that virtually no dealer in the U.S. carries the C1X in stock.


What makes you say that?


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#2306479 - 07/24/14 01:59 PM Re: Visited Yamaha's Flagship Store Today [Re: Minnesota Marty]  
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Originally Posted by Minnesota Marty
Biasa,

There are many of us who cringe at the thought of a digital becoming the hallmark of what a piano should be. To us, the comparison is totally backwards.

Comparing 'the real thing' to 'sampled sounds' means that the standards have been lowered to accept imitation as the goal and norm.


Yada, yada, yada

Why don't you can the "many of us" and simply speak for yourself. This forum isn't a majority rule political convention. It's a compilation of individual opinions. Should a member not make a comment because you claim that it brings you tears?

You are taking a short phrase from the periphery of a thread and steering the thread toward one of the most cliched hackneyed topics in the piano forum. It's been discussed many many times and there is no universal answer. It's a question of an individual's use of his instrument.

Comments like "many of us" are properly seen as inside politicking. It's like Washington Irving's description of the village idlers meeting under a tree in front of the village inn to pass the day discussing everything and resolving nothing.


Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier
#2306487 - 07/24/14 02:20 PM Re: Visited Yamaha's Flagship Store Today [Re: BrianDX]  
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88 Fingers Jeff Offline
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Originally Posted by BrianDX
P.S. For those in this forum: Even if you are not a Yamaha fan per se, if you ever find yourself in Tokyo a visit to Ginza (and this store) should be considered a "must" for music lovers. smile


I agree completely. I was in Ginza with my wife about 10 years ago, and when she wanted to go to Burberry's, I decided to head off to Yamaha.

What a great store. It's the only time I can remember being happy when she spent a long time shopping for clothes. grin


Originally Posted by A443
Originally Posted by BrianDX
NP. Just be be clear, they "own" Bosendorfer but don't "interfere" with their operations I believe...
Yamaha bought the Bösendorfer company a few years ago, and then moved everything/everyone out of the old factory in the city [where they had been for c.130 years];


That's rather disappointing. Do they still have the showroom in the city? The one time I was in Vienna, while my travel companions were oohing and aahing in a chocolate shop, I took a walk over to Bösendorferstraße. Unfortunately, it being a Sunday, they were closed. I remember having my face pressed against the glass like a little kid.

Hmmm. I just noticed a common theme here. Whenever I'm traveling with someone who wants to do something that doesn't interest me, I go wandering off looking for pianos.

#2306502 - 07/24/14 02:37 PM Re: Visited Yamaha's Flagship Store Today [Re: BrianDX]  
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Originally Posted by BrianDX

The main issue is that virtually no dealer in the U.S. carries the C1X in stock. You will get a much better deal value-wise starting with a C2X. Most Yamaha dealers have at least one in stock, and most likely on the showroom floor.


They're on the floor at Music Exchange in San Fran & San Jose. Played at least one, really nice. What Joe Rivita said about it being right behind the C3x in sales seems believable to me. Probably a good number of people with small homes but still want to get something high-quality.

#2306515 - 07/24/14 02:56 PM Re: Visited Yamaha's Flagship Store Today [Re: A454.7]  
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Originally Posted by A443
Yamaha bought the Bösendorfer company a few years ago, and then moved everything/everyone out of the old factory in the city [where they had been for c.130 years]; they are now doing the entire production in a city about 30mins away from Vienna. Artists used to have a much stronger connection/influence on the piano production and routinely visited the factory--since it was right there where they were coming to perform; this doesn't happen as much anymore since the factory is so far away from the action.

This has, indeed, interfered with the culture and connection between artists and piano-builders/concert-technicians. cry cursing

Thanks for this information A443. As an admirer of Bösendorfer pianos I'm glad that production continues, and I do hope that Yamaha fully understands that they have to care for the unique tradition of this company.

#2306539 - 07/24/14 03:30 PM Re: Visited Yamaha's Flagship Store Today [Re: A454.7]  
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Originally Posted by A443
Originally Posted by BrianDX
NP. Just be be clear, they "own" Bosendorfer but don't "interfere" with their operations I believe...
Yamaha bought the Bösendorfer company a few years ago, and then moved everything/everyone out of the old factory in the city [where they had been for c.130 years]; they are now doing the entire production in a city about 30mins away from Vienna. Artists used to have a much stronger connection/influence on the piano production and routinely visited the factory--since it was right there where they were coming to perform; this doesn't happen as much anymore since the factory is so far away from the action.


This is not at all my understanding, but I'm checking the facts and will post again when I have them.


Piano Industry Consultant- http://www.linkedin.com/pub/steve-cohen/6/b92/b80

Consultant & Contributing Editor - Acoustic & Digital Piano Buyer

Jasons Music
Maryland/DC/No. VA
Since 1937.

www.jasonsmusic.com
My postings, unless stated otherwise, are my personal opinions, not those of my clients.
#2306562 - 07/24/14 03:54 PM Re: Visited Yamaha's Flagship Store Today [Re: Steve Cohen]  
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Originally Posted by Steve Cohen
Originally Posted by BrianDX


The main issue is that virtually no dealer in the U.S. carries the C1X in stock.


What makes you say that?

That was an exact quote from my dealer, as originally we went into the store hoping to buy a C1X.

Although it's annoying that either he was exaggerating (or worse) in the long run we are very happy with the C2X and would make the same choice again if we had to.


Yamaha C2X | Yamaha M500-F
Groucho: "The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made."
Curriculum: Faber PA Level 5; Faber DA Book 3
Current: St. Anthony's Chorale (Haydn) (AR); Fanfare on America (Trad.) (AR);
#2306564 - 07/24/14 03:58 PM Re: Visited Yamaha's Flagship Store Today [Re: Joe Ravita]  
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BrianDX Offline
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Originally Posted by Joe Ravita
We stock the C1,2 3 and 7 silent in the CX series. The C1X has sold well beyond our projections and is second to C3X sales. I attribute this to this piano performing well beyond its size having some very good players with size issues in townhomes and condos. In the previous C series we generally sold C1 on special order only but noticed a significant difference in the CX version.

Interesting, and not at all what I was told by my dealer.

I am glad to hear the entire CX series is selling well though. Curious as to how the C2X sells in relation to the other smaller sizes?


Yamaha C2X | Yamaha M500-F
Groucho: "The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made."
Curriculum: Faber PA Level 5; Faber DA Book 3
Current: St. Anthony's Chorale (Haydn) (AR); Fanfare on America (Trad.) (AR);
#2306570 - 07/24/14 04:08 PM Re: Visited Yamaha's Flagship Store Today [Re: Steve Cohen]  
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Originally Posted by BrianDX
This is not at all my understanding, but I'm checking the facts and will post again when I have them.
The factory is already gone; I watched it come down myself. The pianos are now 100% made in the suburb of Wiener Neustadt. With the train/bus connects, it would take visiting artists c.hour to get there from the city.


Masters degree in piano technology, +factory(s) training, etc., blah, blah, yada, yada, yada...[uncensored break-out in song]..."it don't mean a thing, if you aint got that swing."
--Klavierbaukuenstler des Erwachens--
Email: klavierbaukuenstler@gmail.com
#2306574 - 07/24/14 04:13 PM Re: Visited Yamaha's Flagship Store Today [Re: biasa199]  
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Minnesota Marty Offline

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O Great Ice Princess - Hast thyne own piano risen to the heights of the sampled digital?


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
#2306622 - 07/24/14 05:17 PM Re: Visited Yamaha's Flagship Store Today [Re: Minnesota Marty]  
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Reminds me of a line from the Honeymooners...

Ed Norton: "Boy, these flowers had me fooled. They're real! I mean it, they're almost as good as the artificial ones."

#2306628 - 07/24/14 05:32 PM Re: Visited Yamaha's Flagship Store Today [Re: biasa199]  
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Bösendorfer's production now is in Wiener Neustadt (south of Vienna), a Bösendorfer piano salon remains in the Musikverein Building in central Vienna, see http://www.boesendorfer.com/en/company.html


#2306641 - 07/24/14 06:06 PM Re: Visited Yamaha's Flagship Store Today [Re: biasa199]  
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Personally, I have always felt a sense of loss since Steinway moved from 85 Varick Street to the entire block at Park and 53rd Street in Manhattan. Then, to add further insult to injury, there came that whole folly in Astoria, Queens.

Just like Steinway, Bösendorfer has no hope of survival in a new factory.


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
#2306643 - 07/24/14 06:09 PM Re: Visited Yamaha's Flagship Store Today [Re: Minnesota Marty]  
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Originally Posted by Minnesota Marty
Personally, I have always felt a sense of loss since Steinway moved from 85 Varick Street to the entire block at Park and 53rd Street in Manhattan. Then, to add further insult to injury, there came that whole folly in Astoria, Queens.

In 1870?


Poetry is rhythm
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